From moel at patriot.net Wed Jun 1 01:11:09 2005 From: moel at patriot.net (Moe) Date: Tue May 31 22:34:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <429D436D.1C660018@patriot.net> Either July date is fine for me. Moe -------------- gregory pryzby wrote: > The July meeting is scheduled for the 2nd of July. That is a long > weekend. I do not know if > > 1) people want to move it > 2) if the facility is available on the 9th > 3) the speaker can make that meeting > Who wants the meeting on July 2nd? > > Who wants the meeting on July 9th? > > Ted, is either date possible? > > Thanks! > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F From logic_lab at att.net Wed Jun 1 04:43:18 2005 From: logic_lab at att.net (logic_lab@att.net) Date: Wed Jun 1 05:00:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool Message-ID: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> 2005-06-01 04:00edt http://www.openpmtools.com was not found. Being interested in the topic I checked Google for “Open Source Project Management” with the following results (which I verified.) http://www.openworkbench.org/ - single project umbrella http://proj.chbs.dk/ - a listing of “Open and Free Project Management Tools This is the place where you can follow the development and status of the project management tools under some kind of Open Source or Free Software license.” As I skim read the http://proj.chbs.dk/ website – it looks like a source of relevant citations and comments on the topic. Thanks Greg, were it not for your message I would not have revisited this topic so soon. I’m beginning my own business and find that any open source software with GPL or similar licensing to be desirable. -- Original Message to novalug list –- Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 12:35:02 -0400 From: gregory pryzby Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool To: "Northern Virginia Linux User's Group" Message-ID: <20050530163502.GI2091@pryzby.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.openpmtools.com Pragati I have not used it and only saw a 'flash' presentation at a trade show. It looked interesting and wanted to share it before I forgot again (found the paper as I am cleaning my office) -- greg pryzby -- end of original message embeded in batch send to novalug list -- Robert Swain Video Producer logic_lab@att.net http://home.att.net/~logic_lab From edward.silverman at adelphia.net Wed Jun 1 07:03:57 2005 From: edward.silverman at adelphia.net (Ed Silverman) Date: Wed Jun 1 07:22:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] In SusE How do I find a file? Message-ID: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net> Ok Dumb question. I downloaded Mozilla in an effort to alleviate my keyboard problem and can't fin ti to install it. How do I find what /dir it went to? God I am such a noob. Ed -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.2 - Release Date: 5/31/2005 From greg at pryzby.org Wed Jun 1 07:51:05 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Wed Jun 1 07:47:57 2005 Subject: [novalug] In SusE How do I find a file? In-Reply-To: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net> References: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20050601115105.GE13256@pryzby.org> On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 07:03:57AM -0400, Ed Silverman wrote: > Ok Dumb question. I downloaded Mozilla in an effort to alleviate my > keyboard problem and can't fin ti to install it. How do I find what > /dir it went to? God I am such a noob. for rpm based systems you can do something like. rpm -qa|grep -i mozilla (replace mozilla with a subset of the name of package) rpm -ql package-name (package name was returned above, use w/o numbers) -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050601/de534069/attachment.bin From greg at pryzby.org Wed Jun 1 08:11:02 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Wed Jun 1 08:24:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] Saturday Video Taping Message-ID: <20050601121102.GG13256@pryzby.org> Moe is unable to make the meeting this month and I will be videotaping my son's play at 10:30. If anyone wants to video tape the meeting on Saturday, it would be greatly appreciated. -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050601/6189203a/attachment.bin From greg at pryzby.org Wed Jun 1 08:12:21 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Wed Jun 1 08:25:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool In-Reply-To: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> References: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> Message-ID: <20050601121221.GH13256@pryzby.org> Please attend THIS SATURDAY's meeting as an open source project management tool will be discussed dotProject On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 08:43:18AM +0000, logic_lab@att.net wrote: > 2005-06-01 04:00edt http://www.openpmtools.com was not found. Being interested in the topic I checked Google for “Open Source Project Management” with the following results (which I verified.) > > http://www.openworkbench.org/ - single project umbrella > > http://proj.chbs.dk/ - a listing of “Open and Free Project Management Tools > > This is the place where you can follow the development and status of the project management tools under some kind of Open Source or Free Software license.” > > As I skim read the http://proj.chbs.dk/ website – it looks like a source of relevant citations and comments on the topic. > > Thanks Greg, were it not for your message I would not have revisited this topic so soon. I’m beginning my own business and find that any open source software with GPL or similar licensing to be desirable. > > -- Original Message to novalug list –- > Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 12:35:02 -0400 > From: gregory pryzby > Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool > To: "Northern Virginia Linux User's Group" > Message-ID: <20050530163502.GI2091@pryzby.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > http://www.openpmtools.com > > Pragati > > I have not used it and only saw a 'flash' presentation at a trade > show. It looked interesting and wanted to share it before I forgot > again (found the paper as I am cleaning my office) > > -- > greg pryzby > > -- end of original message embeded in batch send to novalug list -- > > Robert Swain > Video Producer > logic_lab@att.net > http://home.att.net/~logic_lab > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050601/18014827/attachment.bin From keith.casey at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 08:35:39 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Wed Jun 1 08:35:48 2005 Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool In-Reply-To: <20050601121221.GH13256@pryzby.org> References: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> <20050601121221.GH13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: I figure I should throw out my presentation blurb now, huh? [from the NoVaLUG website] dotProject is a Web-based php Project Management and collaboration framework that allows a group of users to create, view, and track numerous aspects of a proejct throughout the lifecycle and provide a one-stop-shop for project information for all involved. Currently there are modules for the management of Companies information, Projects, Tasking (with Gantt charts, assignments, deadlines, milestones), a simple threaded forum system, document management, group calendar with tasking, contacts management (ie Rolodex), tickets/helpdesk tracking, multi-language support, highly granular user/role/module-based permissions and a basic theming system. Link for further info: http://dotproject.net/ [End copy/paste job] I am one of the core developers and heavily active in the help forums (username: caseydk). I will be around afterwards to field questions and hopefully convince you that no other tool comes close in terms of functionality, usability, and style. ;) keith -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com From cliff at palmercs.com Wed Jun 1 09:06:58 2005 From: cliff at palmercs.com (Palmer) Date: Wed Jun 1 09:24:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] Google's "Summer of Code" - get paid to develop open source In-Reply-To: <20050601121221.GH13256@pryzby.org> References: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> <20050601121221.GH13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <61733.192.86.228.66.1117631218.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Check it out: code.google.com/summerofcode.html From mark at winksmith.com Wed Jun 1 09:26:19 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Wed Jun 1 10:29:56 2005 Subject: [novalug] In SusE How do I find a file? In-Reply-To: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net>; from edward.silverman@adelphia.net on Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 07:03:57AM -0400 References: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20050601092619.A22400@winksmith.com> On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 07:03:57AM -0400, Ed Silverman wrote: > Ok Dumb question. I downloaded Mozilla in an effort to alleviate my > keyboard problem and can't fin ti to install it. How do I find what > /dir it went to? God I am such a noob. try and download something (doesn't matter what) and this time see where it's downloading to. it'll be listed in the file save popup. hit cancel and then go to that location... that's where your file is. -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From gibsons at jmsearch.com Wed Jun 1 10:24:34 2005 From: gibsons at jmsearch.com (Shawn Gibson) Date: Wed Jun 1 10:47:22 2005 Subject: [novalug] Database Architect/Administrator Message-ID: Fulltime, permanent, salaried Database Architect/Administrator. MySQL Linux Primary responsibilities include: DB optimization, advice on strategic database choices, tuning of DB design, database maintenance, data modeling, DB migrations, serve as query guru, and RDBMS style advocate. Secondary responsibilities include: reporting and general application optimization. Required skills: database administration, thorough knowledge of RDBMS, Mysql, clustering, replication, scripting -- Perl preferred. Preferred skills: programming background (Perl, python, and/or java), DB clustering, OLAP, reporting tools, and practical data mining. Must have exceptional communication skills (English) This position is located in the DC/Bethesda metro area. Competitive compensation/benefits package. Regards, Shawn Shawn E Gibson Director of IT Recruiting JM & Company P.O. Box 285 Wayne, PA 19087 Main: 610-964-0200 www.jmsearch.com From nick at hackermonkey.com Wed Jun 1 10:39:25 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Wed Jun 1 11:13:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] In SusE How do I find a file? In-Reply-To: <20050601092619.A22400@winksmith.com> References: <429D961D.5050105@adelphia.net> <20050601092619.A22400@winksmith.com> Message-ID: <429DC89D.2040503@hackermonkey.com> mark@winksmith.com wrote: >On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 07:03:57AM -0400, Ed Silverman wrote: > >>Ok Dumb question. I downloaded Mozilla in an effort to alleviate my >>keyboard problem and can't fin ti to install it. How do I find what >>/dir it went to? God I am such a noob. >> The SuSE 9.2 I have, by default, puts items downloaded into a folder called "Documents" in your home directory. Or at least thats where it put Firefox when I downloaded it. I forget what browser I used to get it. Mozilla? Or was it Epiphany? I dunno, whatever was default on the desktop before. -Nick From bamapookie at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 08:44:08 2005 From: bamapookie at gmail.com (Shawn Kovalchick) Date: Wed Jun 1 12:44:11 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: I vote for July 9th. On 5/31/05, gregory pryzby wrote: > Meeting THIS Saturday on dotProject > > The July meeting is scheduled for the 2nd of July. That is a long > weekend. I do not know if > > 1) people want to move it > 2) if the facility is available on the 9th > 3) the speaker can make that meeting > > I have 2 companies that want to talk to us. I know a person wants to > talk about open source GIS. I want to get the meetings set for July > and August, so I would like a concensus by Friday on the July meeting. > > Who wants the meeting on July 2nd? > > Who wants the meeting on July 9th? > > Ted, is either date possible? > > Thanks! > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F > > > BodyID:44433316.2.n.logpart (stored separately) > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > > From john.johnknight at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 13:37:11 2005 From: john.johnknight at gmail.com (John Knight) Date: Wed Jun 1 14:03:59 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <9fdb5c4c050601103732f14372@mail.gmail.com> Either works for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050601/33102ffa/attachment.html From linuxjay at stickdog.com Wed Jun 1 14:34:19 2005 From: linuxjay at stickdog.com (linuxjay@stickdog.com) Date: Wed Jun 1 14:59:12 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <1117650859.429dffab76e37@webmail.stickdog.com> Last year I hosted a picnic over the July 4th weekend (forget the exact date), and I'll do it again this year if anyone is interested. This would be in addition to the monthly meeting (if rescheduled to the 9th). If it is decided to hold the meeting on the 2nd, then maye we can plan something after the meeting in the parking lot, or somewhere close by. MTC, Jay Hart Quoting gregory pryzby : > Meeting THIS Saturday on dotProject > > The July meeting is scheduled for the 2nd of July. That is a long > weekend. I do not know if > > 1) people want to move it > 2) if the facility is available on the 9th > 3) the speaker can make that meeting > > I have 2 companies that want to talk to us. I know a person wants to > talk about open source GIS. I want to get the meetings set for July > and August, so I would like a concensus by Friday on the July meeting. > > Who wants the meeting on July 2nd? > > Who wants the meeting on July 9th? > > Ted, is either date possible? > > Thanks! > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From nick at mrtizmo.com Wed Jun 1 17:46:46 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Wed Jun 1 17:46:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <33284.66.171.38.35.1117662406.squirrel@66.171.38.35> > Who wants the meeting on July 2nd? > > Who wants the meeting on July 9th? I vote for the 9th. Nick Davis From truegsegger at csc.com Wed Jun 1 14:09:11 2005 From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger) Date: Wed Jun 1 17:59:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] July NOVALUG Meeting In-Reply-To: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: Greg wrote: > Ted, is either date [ July 2nd or July 9th ] possible? I just checked with Conference Services and, by a remarkable coincidence, the meeting was already scheduled for July 9th, perhaps because we canceled last year's July meeting. >From the comments posted, I gather July 9th is popular with lots of members. If you want it rescheduled for July 2nd, let me know. Ted From john.johnknight at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 13:44:13 2005 From: john.johnknight at gmail.com (John Knight) Date: Wed Jun 1 20:51:01 2005 Subject: [novalug] ride to Saturday meeting Message-ID: <9fdb5c4c05060110444786c348@mail.gmail.com> Mo and I need transportation to the meeting. We are in DC but we can meet a driver at any metro station. Julia picked us up at the Vienna station last time. Thx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050601/286bd677/attachment.html From pnuwayser at cox.net Wed Jun 1 19:40:48 2005 From: pnuwayser at cox.net (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Wed Jun 1 21:37:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <1117669248.23447.8.camel@ratamacue.site> On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 21:37 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > Who wants the meeting on July 9th? /me waves From tom at infoether.com Wed Jun 1 21:56:13 2005 From: tom at infoether.com (Tom Copeland) Date: Wed Jun 1 22:22:10 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <1117593326.8237.11.camel@tuxtop.site> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> <1117593326.8237.11.camel@tuxtop.site> Message-ID: <1117677373.10727.21.camel@hal> On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 22:35 -0400, Rich Goodwin wrote: > Hopefully it will get taped .... I LIKE dotProject's site .... it'd be > interesting to hear the differences between it & gForge. FWIW, if anyone's interested in a presentation on GForge I could probably put something together. I'm currently admin'ing a 2000+ user GForge site - http://rubyforge.org/ - so I could glom together some lessons learned... Yours, Tom From tom at infoether.com Wed Jun 1 21:53:17 2005 From: tom at infoether.com (Tom Copeland) Date: Wed Jun 1 22:55:30 2005 Subject: [novalug] A good experience with Linux and a wireless NIC Message-ID: <1117677197.10727.17.camel@hal> Hi all - Just a data point for anyone looking to get a wireless card for their Linux box - I've got a Fedora Core 3 machine and today I got a Netgear WG311T PCI adapter. I stuck it in the machine, installed the MadWifi driver, ran some iwconfig junx to get WEP going, and it came right up on my 802.11g network. I got it from the Microcenter on Rt 29; I think they had a few more in stock. Yours, tom From linuxhaawk at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 10:14:27 2005 From: linuxhaawk at gmail.com (Bill Morgan) Date: Thu Jun 2 12:02:48 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <1117677373.10727.21.camel@hal> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> <1117593326.8237.11.camel@tuxtop.site> <1117677373.10727.21.camel@hal> Message-ID: <220d72d905060207146ef8cdc1@mail.gmail.com> I'm flexible on either July weekend, but looks like the 9th is winning over all. On 6/1/05, Tom Copeland wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 22:35 -0400, Rich Goodwin wrote: > > Hopefully it will get taped .... I LIKE dotProject's site .... it'd be > > interesting to hear the differences between it & gForge. > > FWIW, if anyone's interested in a presentation on GForge I could > probably put something together. I'm currently admin'ing a 2000+ user > GForge site - http://rubyforge.org/ - so I could glom together some > lessons learned... > > Yours, > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From linuxhaawk at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 10:14:27 2005 From: linuxhaawk at gmail.com (Bill Morgan) Date: Thu Jun 2 12:03:36 2005 Subject: [novalug] June and July Meeting In-Reply-To: <1117677373.10727.21.camel@hal> References: <20050601013740.GC13256@pryzby.org> <1117593326.8237.11.camel@tuxtop.site> <1117677373.10727.21.camel@hal> Message-ID: <220d72d905060207146ef8cdc1@mail.gmail.com> I'm flexible on either July weekend, but looks like the 9th is winning over all. On 6/1/05, Tom Copeland wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 22:35 -0400, Rich Goodwin wrote: > > Hopefully it will get taped .... I LIKE dotProject's site .... it'd be > > interesting to hear the differences between it & gForge. > > FWIW, if anyone's interested in a presentation on GForge I could > probably put something together. I'm currently admin'ing a 2000+ user > GForge site - http://rubyforge.org/ - so I could glom together some > lessons learned... > > Yours, > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From Roger at just.net Thu Jun 2 14:53:09 2005 From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus) Date: Thu Jun 2 15:12:05 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 Message-ID: <429F5595.1080009@just.net> Help needed connecting WiFi - if you've done so, please share your experience. With SuSE 9.3 Pro installed on a Thinkpad T42, the Intel Centrio 2200BG wireless 'card' is recognized and tools are present for setting up the card. However, I can not get a connection. KInternet reveals a current connection with my ESSID but nothings working / associated. kwifimanager shows similar results. Oh: I had this sucker up and running in minutes under Win XP. Thanks in advance - - Google has not been my friend and the SuSE Admin Guide for Ver 9.3 was of little help. /roger Configuration with YAST yeilds the configuration file /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan-id-00:12:f0:36:2e:fb BOOTPROTO='dhcp' MTU='' NAME='Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG' REMOTE_IPADDR='' STARTMODE='ifplugd' UNIQUE='rBUF.PBR8g123Rc6' USERCONTROL='yes' WIRELESS_AP='0013102D58AE' <-- this is the MAC address of the WT54G WIRELESS_AUTH_MODE='psk' WIRELESS_BITRATE='auto' WIRELESS_CHANNEL='' WIRELESS_DEFAULT_KEY='0' WIRELESS_ESSID='' WIRELESS_FREQUENCY='' WIRELESS_KEY='' WIRELESS_KEY_0='h:'' WIRELESS_KEY_1='' WIRELESS_KEY_2='' WIRELESS_KEY_3='' WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH='128' WIRELESS_MODE='Managed' WIRELESS_NICK='' WIRELESS_NWID='' WIRELESS_POWER='yes' WIRELESS_WPA_PSK='' _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:02:02.0' IFPLUGD_PRIORITY='10' From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 15:29:47 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Thu Jun 2 15:56:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 In-Reply-To: <429F5595.1080009@just.net> Message-ID: <20050602192947.71384.qmail@web61018.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Roger W. Broseus" wrote: > Help needed connecting WiFi - if you've done so, > please share your > experience. > With SuSE 9.3 Pro installed on a Thinkpad T42, the > Intel Centrio 2200BG > wireless 'card' I haven't done it in Suse, but here are a couple suggestions: 1) From the Suse site: "WPA does not work with many cards. To enable WPA, some of these cards need a firmware update. If you want to use WPA, read /usr/share/doc/packages/wireless-tools/README.wpa." 2) If you are "into" compiling drivers and poking around, investigate this, I think it supports WPA now: http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ -Ben __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Roger at just.net Thu Jun 2 16:07:56 2005 From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus) Date: Thu Jun 2 16:26:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 In-Reply-To: <20050602192947.71384.qmail@web61018.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050602192947.71384.qmail@web61018.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429F671C.20309@just.net> Thanks, Ben. SuSE 9.3 installs the driver you suggested and, as I read SuSE's Admin guide, WPA is supported for the Intel 2200BG. I believe that I'm just not getting parameters set properly. /roger ben creitz wrote: >--- "Roger W. Broseus" wrote: > > >>Help needed connecting WiFi - if you've done so, >>please share your >>experience. >>With SuSE 9.3 Pro installed on a Thinkpad T42, the >>Intel Centrio 2200BG >>wireless 'card' >> >> > >I haven't done it in Suse, but here are a couple >suggestions: > >1) From the Suse site: > >"WPA does not work with many cards. To enable WPA, >some of these cards need a firmware update. If you >want to use WPA, read >/usr/share/doc/packages/wireless-tools/README.wpa." > >2) If you are "into" compiling drivers and poking >around, investigate this, I think it supports WPA now: >http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/ > >-Ben > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 16:55:29 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Thu Jun 2 17:22:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 In-Reply-To: <429F5595.1080009@just.net> Message-ID: <20050602205529.20096.qmail@web61017.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Roger W. Broseus" wrote: > SuSE 9.3 installs the driver you suggested and, as I > read SuSE's Admin > guide, WPA is supported for the Intel 2200BG. > > I believe that I'm just not getting parameters set > properly. In that case, I would start by blanking out (with empty single quotes) some of the following parameters in /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan-id-blah-blah. **This one doesn't *need* to be set, especially if you're troubleshooting: > WIRELESS_AP='0013102D58AE' **These are really WEP settings. They may be confusing things: > WIRELESS_DEFAULT_KEY='0' > WIRELESS_KEY_0='h:' > WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH='128' WPA keys are 256 bits, so the WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH should at least be set to that (although my gut feeling is to blank it out entirely'). Good luck and keep us posted. -Ben --- "Roger W. Broseus" wrote: > Help needed connecting WiFi - if you've done so, > please share your > experience. > > With SuSE 9.3 Pro installed on a Thinkpad T42, the > Intel Centrio 2200BG > wireless 'card' is recognized and tools are present > for setting up the > card. However, I can not get a connection. KInternet > reveals a current > connection with my ESSID but nothings working / > associated. kwifimanager > shows similar results. Oh: I had this sucker up and > running in minutes > under Win XP. > > Thanks in advance - - Google has not been my friend > and the SuSE Admin > Guide for Ver 9.3 was of little help. > > /roger > > Configuration with YAST yeilds the configuration > file > > /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan-id-00:12:f0:36:2e:fb > > BOOTPROTO='dhcp' > MTU='' > NAME='Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG' > REMOTE_IPADDR='' > STARTMODE='ifplugd' > UNIQUE='rBUF.PBR8g123Rc6' > USERCONTROL='yes' > WIRELESS_AP='0013102D58AE' <-- this is the MAC > address of the WT54G > WIRELESS_AUTH_MODE='psk' > WIRELESS_BITRATE='auto' > WIRELESS_CHANNEL='' > WIRELESS_DEFAULT_KEY='0' > WIRELESS_ESSID='' > WIRELESS_FREQUENCY='' > WIRELESS_KEY='' > WIRELESS_KEY_1='' > WIRELESS_KEY_2='' > WIRELESS_KEY_3='' > WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH='128' > WIRELESS_MODE='Managed' > WIRELESS_NICK='' > WIRELESS_NWID='' > WIRELESS_POWER='yes' > WIRELESS_WPA_PSK='' > _nm_name='bus-pci-0000:02:02.0' > IFPLUGD_PRIORITY='10' > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Roger at just.net Thu Jun 2 17:14:09 2005 From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus) Date: Thu Jun 2 17:30:38 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 In-Reply-To: <20050602205529.20096.qmail@web61017.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050602205529.20096.qmail@web61017.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429F76A1.7000105@just.net> ben creitz wrote: [snip] >In that case, I would start by blanking out (with >empty single quotes) some of the following parameters >in /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan-id-blah-blah. > >**This one doesn't *need* to be set, especially if >you're troubleshooting: > > >>WIRELESS_AP='0013102D58AE' >> >> > >**These are really WEP settings. They may be >confusing things: > > >>WIRELESS_DEFAULT_KEY='0' >>WIRELESS_KEY_0='h:' >>WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH='128' >> >> > >WPA keys are 256 bits, so the WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH >should at least be set to that (although my gut >feeling is to blank it out entirely'). > > I deleted the MAC address from WIRELESS_AP and tried key lenghts of '' and '256' . . . to no avial. From inventfirst at adelphia.net Thu Jun 2 18:25:02 2005 From: inventfirst at adelphia.net (Macte Virtute) Date: Thu Jun 2 18:45:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] NYSE stops - Network "storm"? Message-ID: <429F873E.8050709@adelphia.net> I'll let the folks on the list decipher this one. I have several thoughts myself but will maintain silence given this is not my area of expertise. -------------------- Thain Calls Early NYSE Halt A Result of 'Network Storm' *DOW JONES NEWSWIRES* June 2, 2005 2:19 p.m. NEW YORK -- The New York Stock Exchange halted trading four minutes before the closing bell Wednesday because of an error message that circulated millions of times through the exchange's communication system, NYSE Chief Executive John Thain said Thursday. The Big Board resumed trading at its normal time at 9:30 a.m. Eastern on Thursday morning. Mr. Thain, in an interview with CNBC, called the problem "a network storm." "What happened last night right before the close was there was an error message that was created and then duplicated millions of times," he said. "Both the primary routers and backup routers were overwhelmed." Since the shutdown last night, the NYSE has taken measures to ensure the problem doesn't happen again. "We separated the paths that the routers are on so that now, even if one router was overwhelmed by this type of network storm, the other one won't be," he said. From geostone at cox.net Thu Jun 2 21:39:52 2005 From: geostone at cox.net (geostone@cox.net) Date: Thu Jun 2 22:26:25 2005 Subject: [novalug] (no subject) Message-ID: <20050603013952.FSOK749.lakermmtao06.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> I'd like to ask those coming to the Sat.meeting to sign and exchange pgp keys right afterward. Thanks! George Stone From cmhowe at patriot.net Fri Jun 3 05:28:05 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Fri Jun 3 05:28:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] Wireless card Message-ID: <1117790885.13029.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Anyone, I have DSL working, but only by connecting my computer (fwiw, a Shuttle) to my router by cat5 cable. That entailed moving it to a basement office., which is ok for a while but not permanently. I hope that someone will give me tips on getting wireless to work at the meeting tomorrow. My wireless card is a Netgear WG311. The distro is Ubuntu 5.04, Hoary Hedgehog. I don't guess I need WPA. Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie From inventfirst at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 13:39:29 2005 From: inventfirst at adelphia.net (Macte Virtute) Date: Fri Jun 3 13:41:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider Message-ID: <42A095D1.4060107@adelphia.net> 1.5 Mb down 256 Kbp up $50 per month WildBlue Communication http://www.wildblue.com/aboutWildblue/qaa.jsp#5_1 (item # 27) Ken From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 3 13:57:32 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 3 14:27:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <42A095D1.4060107@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Macte Virtute wrote: > 1.5 Mb down 256 Kbp up $50 per month > > WildBlue Communication > > http://www.wildblue.com/aboutWildblue/qaa.jsp#5_1 (item # 27) Fwiw, that's unreadable on Opera 8.0 under FC1 -- which may say something ... -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 14:56:00 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Fri Jun 3 15:22:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy not working Message-ID: <20050603185600.6806.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy is not working prop. Any one knows how to fix this. thank you __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050603/48c4afcf/attachment.html From greg at pryzby.org Fri Jun 3 15:43:23 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Fri Jun 3 15:58:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy not working In-Reply-To: <20050603185600.6806.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050603185600.6806.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050603194323.GC25100@pryzby.org> Can you be specific? What doesn't work? automatic mounting? writing, reading? On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 11:56:00AM -0700, Frank S. wrote: > > I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy is not working prop. > > Any one knows how to fix this. > > thank you -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050603/416cd61a/attachment.bin From djr1952 at hotpop.com Fri Jun 3 17:35:58 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Fri Jun 3 18:36:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1117834558.453.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 10:57 -0700, Beartooth wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Macte Virtute wrote: > > > 1.5 Mb down 256 Kbp up $50 per month > > > > WildBlue Communication > > > > http://www.wildblue.com/aboutWildblue/qaa.jsp#5_1 (item # 27) > > Fwiw, that's unreadable on Opera 8.0 under FC1 -- which may > say something ... > Did either of you happen to read item number 28? 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue service? And there answer is: Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". See: search for the entry "operating system". So if I was even thinking about getting said service the first thing I asked is, "What about support for REAL Operating Systems such as Linux or BSD?". -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From pete at gwyn.tux.org Fri Jun 3 18:56:38 2005 From: pete at gwyn.tux.org (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Fri Jun 3 18:56:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] keysigning after tomorrow's meeting Message-ID: <20050603185638.A19294@gwyn.tux.org> I will be available after tomorrow's meeting to trade fingerprints and check photo IDs with anyone who would like me to sign their key. If you are interested, please bring a hardcopy of your key fingerprint to give me and bring a photo ID. Please also be sure to upload your key to a keyserver like subkeys.pgp.net or pgp.mit.edu. Sorry for the last minute notice. If you miss it tomorrow there's always the July meeting.... :-) Pete -- Pete Nuwayser TUX.ORG, Incorporated http://www.tux.org http://www.tux.org/~pete/nuwayser.asc for PGP public key From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 18:58:15 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Fri Jun 3 19:25:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] suse 9.3 and the floppy Message-ID: <20050603225815.92337.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Hi sorry I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy is not working prop. not reading from or writing to the diskette correctly the erro messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process for the media protocol died unexpetedly. Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it. My computer is a : Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux CPU AMD 64 and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050603/ccd92884/attachment.html From greg at pryzby.org Fri Jun 3 19:31:00 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Fri Jun 3 19:46:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] suse 9.3 and the floppy In-Reply-To: <20050603225815.92337.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050603225815.92337.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050603233100.GI25100@pryzby.org> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 03:58:15PM -0700, Frank S. wrote: > > Hi sorry > > I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy is not working prop. > > not reading from or writing to the diskette correctly > > the erro messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process for the > media protocol died unexpetedly. > > Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it. > > My computer is a : > > Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux > > CPU AMD 64 > > and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. mount /dev/fd0 /mnt touch /mnt/a umount /mnt test the floppy elsewhere If this works, the automount feature isn't working properly. Also make sure the floppy isn't write-protected -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050603/52c1ad71/attachment.bin From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 3 19:50:03 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 3 19:50:30 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <1117834558.453.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: > Did either of you happen to read item number 28? > > 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue > service? > > And their answer is: > Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP > Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher > > I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then > possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". Yes, I saw it; but afaik, verizon *still* doesn't support linux -- nor do many smaller ISPs. But many people use them in spite of that. > See: > search for the entry "operating system". > > So if I was even thinking about getting said service the first thing > I asked is, "What about support for REAL Operating Systems such as > Linux or BSD?". Some day .... -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From geostone at cox.net Fri Jun 3 19:57:39 2005 From: geostone at cox.net (George Stone) Date: Fri Jun 3 19:57:28 2005 Subject: [novalug] Configuring WRT54G SuSE Pro 9.3 In-Reply-To: <429F76A1.7000105@just.net> References: <20050602205529.20096.qmail@web61017.mail.yahoo.com> <429F76A1.7000105@just.net> Message-ID: <42A0EE73.3030202@cox.net> Roger W. Broseus wrote: > ben creitz wrote: > > [snip] > >> In that case, I would start by blanking out (with >> empty single quotes) some of the following parameters >> in /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan-id-blah-blah. >> >> **This one doesn't *need* to be set, especially if >> you're troubleshooting: >> >> >>> WIRELESS_AP='0013102D58AE' >>> >> >> >> **These are really WEP settings. They may be >> confusing things: >> >> >>> WIRELESS_DEFAULT_KEY='0' >>> WIRELESS_KEY_0='h:' >>> WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH='128' >>> >> >> >> WPA keys are 256 bits, so the WIRELESS_KEY_LENGTH >> should at least be set to that (although my gut >> feeling is to blank it out entirely'). >> >> > I deleted the MAC address from WIRELESS_AP and tried key lenghts of '' > and '256' . . . to no avial. > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > Roger -- While I'm no expert by any means, I have managed to get Suse 9.3 to work with the 2200BG on a Gateway laptop. I'll bring it to the meeting. Perhaps it would help to compare settings. From edward.silverman at adelphia.net Fri Jun 3 20:01:31 2005 From: edward.silverman at adelphia.net (Ed Silverman) Date: Fri Jun 3 20:17:50 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A0EF5B.40407@adelphia.net> Hey, I just installed a modem today for someone running Red Hat ver 4.2.27(?) from Comcast. Took me an hour on the phone with the Network Operations Center to get tehm to push the Modem through so we could get it to work. Comcast doesn't support Linux. My life sucks. Well, except that the modem works. And I think I recruited someone else to the list. Erikk if you are out there , welcome. Ed Beartooth wrote: >On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: > > > >>Did either of you happen to read item number 28? >> >> 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue >>service? >> >>And their answer is: >> Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP >> Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher >> >>I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then >>possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". >> >> > > Yes, I saw it; but afaik, verizon *still* doesn't support >linux -- nor do many smaller ISPs. But many people use them in spite >of that. > > > >> See: >>search for the entry "operating system". >> >>So if I was even thinking about getting said service the first thing >>I asked is, "What about support for REAL Operating Systems such as >>Linux or BSD?". >> >> > > Some day .... > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.1 - Release Date: 6/3/2005 From mandi at linuxchick.org Fri Jun 3 22:14:49 2005 From: mandi at linuxchick.org (Mandi) Date: Sat Jun 4 00:32:46 2005 Subject: [novalug] OT: moving. mac for sale. other bits for free. Message-ID: I'm moving in a couple of weeks and am trying to avoid moving some things. :D if any of this stuff tickles your pack-rat funnybone, let me know. i'm in herndon and work in dulles/sterling. --mandi I have this mac i bought when OSX was still in beta. it currently has a brand-fresh-new install of 10.2 on it: - apple macintosh graphite dual G4 400 MHz, 30GB disk, 512 MB of RAM, DVD. - apple studio crt display. this is a seriously nice monitor. apple digital connector, not vga. machine is good for not-so-heavy lifting, office work, internet, email. plays dvd movies way better than my tv. all the usual mac things, talks to cameras and other toys. it does run OS X. also runs PPC versions of linux. both pieces, sold as set only. $500 for both, in original boxes, with copy of mac os 10.2. pictures courtesy my poor photography skills: http://linuxchick.org/gallery/album01 i can deliver this around the nova area. some other monitors: - dell 19" flat screen CRT M992 monitor. works great, i got lcds. has a melty spot on the top from my desk lamp. $300 new. $50 obo. - also have two 17" monitors in excellent shape. not a matched set. i don't have all the specs on these. let me know if you are interested, and i'll get you all the details. these belong to a friend who's moving in sept. some free stuff: - i have a rack-mountable 5 port 10/100 D-link switch. bought off ebay, so i don't have the manual. it has a serial management port on it. free to good home. - 2 dell keyboards and wheel mice (ball, not optical). collecting spare parts? ;) - blast from the past. early generation sony mavica FD7 digital camera. writes to floppies. 0 megapixels. battery charger, carrying case, manual. works ok; focus seems a little off. - slim-line, single CD cases. designer colors! a whole bunch of them! extra !! "furniture": round papsan chair from pier one. cushion is green. get this thing out of my apartment. two ikea tables, with screw-on legs for easy transport. blue tops, birch legs, 31"x59". paint is coming off them, but they've really only been used as desks. From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 4 02:04:26 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 4 03:04:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1117865066.27638.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 16:50 -0700, Beartooth wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: > > > Did either of you happen to read item number 28? > > > > 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue > > service? > > > > And their answer is: > > Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP > > Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher > > > > I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then > > possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". > > Yes, I saw it; but afaik, verizon *still* doesn't support > linux -- nor do many smaller ISPs. But many people use them in spite > of that. But the support or NON direct support of Linux {or other "Real Operating System} by Verizon doesn't make much difference in the ablity to use there service with same. Besides as far as Verizon and usage by Linux or BSD someone out there has already figured out how to set it up and use it. Is this later true for WildBlue? If not you willing to be the first to try and figure it out? {Note you are talking about close to a $1,000.00 investment (only partically refundable) to get the first 30 days of service.} Most satellite setups to date require that a special client be installed on the connecting PC in order to setup and {more importantly} maintain the connection, without this client there is no connection. Now "24. Can I use wireless home networking with WildBlue?" and it's answer of: "Yes. WildBlue is compatible with all major wireless home networking products." Hint's at the possibility that WildBlue doesn't require a special client in order to maintain it's connection. Or that the standard client that's part of most modern wireless hubs is all that's required. If this assumption is true. Then it doesn't matter what OS the user client is running and instead only that it{the user's client} support standard TCP/IP networking protocol. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From keith.casey at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 16:12:40 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Sat Jun 4 17:12:51 2005 Subject: [novalug] Open Project Management tool In-Reply-To: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> References: <060120050843.10138.429D7526000242F50000279A21603760210D0E04A10C07090104@att.net> Message-ID: Good afternoon all, First of all, thanks to all of those who attended the dotProject presentation this morning. I appreciated the questions and will be sharing the feedback with the rest of the core developers. I will work to gather from the dP community on who is using it and how. I think this would be interesting for future versions of my presentation. On another note, the presentation is available in a variety of formats (pdf, html, and images) on my website here: http://caseysoftware.com/index.php?section=4 Finally, there were a few questions/people that I didn't get to address during the meeting, if you are looking for further information and/or have more questions, please don't hesitate to contact me... I love to talk about dotProject and what it is/could be. Thanks again, keith -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com From greg at pryzby.org Sat Jun 4 22:41:47 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sat Jun 4 22:55:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] well? meeting wrap? Message-ID: <20050605024147.GD29763@pryzby.org> I haven't heard much about the meeting. Someone usually has something to say besides the the speaker. I am sorry I missed it, but my kids are happy because I made my son's play and daughter's recital. -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050604/ca37979e/attachment.bin From pete at gwyn.tux.org Sat Jun 4 23:16:18 2005 From: pete at gwyn.tux.org (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Sat Jun 4 23:16:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] well? meeting wrap? In-Reply-To: <20050605024147.GD29763@pryzby.org>; from greg@pryzby.org on Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 10:41:47PM -0400 References: <20050605024147.GD29763@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <20050604231618.A13317@gwyn.tux.org> On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 10:41:47PM -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > I haven't heard much about the meeting. Someone usually has something > to say besides the the speaker. > > I am sorry I missed it, but my kids are happy because I made my son's > play and daughter's recital. Keith did an excellent presentation and drew many questions from the audience---always a good sign. dotProject sure seems to kick ass and it's great to see so much attention being given to real features like importing of XML formats from Gantt and MS Project, and integration with SugarCRM and Mantis. (this is all just off the top of my head... there is a lot more) After the meeting a couple of folks traded PGP fingerprints---I gave my fingerprint and showed my ID to three people and got a fingerprint/ID from one person. I will put out a more timely reminder before next month's meeting. People are definitely interested in hearing about GIS. And finally, the next meeting is definitely on the 9th, not the 2nd :) Pete -- Pete Nuwayser TUX.ORG, Incorporated http://www.tux.org http://www.tux.org/~pete/nuwayser.asc for PGP public key From scottkapel at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 01:48:31 2005 From: scottkapel at gmail.com (Scott Kapel) Date: Sun Jun 5 05:48:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <1117865066.27638.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1117865066.27638.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: FWIW, I've noticed that if you drop a few networking terms, or mention that you're a system's or network engineer, the tech support folk at Verizon, Comcast, or COX all sort of flop over and become quite coopertive. Don't know about this new outfit. Regardless, when you do this, TS folk tend to realize they're outclassed (since they're usually reading from a script) and those who have skill or know their biz (kudos to them) will cooperate if for no other reason than to prove themselves or learn from you. I've had networks with all 3 of these providers, and have had good tech support experiences in general. What the provider "supports" and what you can "get away with" are usually two different things altogether. That said, does anyone still hook directly to their provider from one system running whatever OS? So dangerous... I was under the impression that it was standard practice for most home users to be using some form of networking device at the border, like a Linksys wireless router or such. Sounds like this new outfit supports these devices, and for their nominal cost, it seems logical to put your system beind such a device. Once you do so, it doesn't matter what OS you run--just point it at your router. I've always had a custom Linux IP Tables firewall as my border device connected to a Linksys cable modem, or that piece of crap modem Verizon gives you for DSL. In any case, the modem is getting your IP via its client, and your device (whether an IP Tables firewall like me, or a simple Linksys wireless router, or even your generic Windoze PC) just gets it connection from that device. Basically, my point is that OS dependency or support is sort of a moot point, since the device is handling the connection (see last comment regarding question 24 for this new outfit). In fact, the last time I called Comcast techsupport, they outright asked me "Are you running home network" and "how many computers are behind it?" The providers are getting the message that their "officially supported" view of the world--one user/one computer/Windows somethingorotherversion/direct connection--isn't realistic anymore, and if this new outfit doesn't get this as well, I'd be hesitant to use them. If anyone comes on the market these days storming in and saying "We only support such and such", then they've not done their market research well enough, and probably don't deserve our business. My 2c Scott On 6/4/05, donjr wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 16:50 -0700, Beartooth wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: > > > > > Did either of you happen to read item number 28? > > > > > > 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue > > > service? > > > > > > And their answer is: > > > Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP > > > Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher > > > > > > I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then > > > possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". > > > > Yes, I saw it; but afaik, verizon *still* doesn't support > > linux -- nor do many smaller ISPs. But many people use them in spite > > of that. > > But the support or NON direct support of Linux {or other "Real Operating > System} by Verizon doesn't make much difference in the ablity to use > there service with same. Besides as far as Verizon and usage by Linux or > BSD someone out there has already figured out how to set it up and use > it. > > Is this later true for WildBlue? > If not you willing to be the first to try and figure it out? > {Note you are talking about close to a $1,000.00 investment (only > partically refundable) to get the first 30 days of service.} > > Most satellite setups to date require that a special client be installed > on the connecting PC in order to setup and {more importantly} maintain > the connection, without this client there is no connection. > > Now "24. Can I use wireless home networking with WildBlue?" > and it's answer of: > "Yes. WildBlue is compatible with all major wireless home networking > products." > > Hint's at the possibility that WildBlue doesn't require a special client > in order to maintain it's connection. Or that the standard client that's > part of most modern wireless hubs is all that's required. > > If this assumption is true. Then it doesn't matter what OS the user > client is running and instead only that it{the user's client} support > standard TCP/IP networking protocol. > > > -- > -- > Don E. Groves, Jr. > > =============================================================== > A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I > want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be > difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". > > The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Sun Jun 5 10:33:57 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Sun Jun 5 10:54:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Scott Kapel wrote: > [....] What the provider "supports" and what you can "get away with" > are usually two different things altogether. That sometimes works even with ordinary users -- happened to me once when I called at 2 ack emma on a Sunday ... > ... for their nominal cost, it seems logical to put your system > behind [a router]. Once you do so, it doesn't matter what OS you > run--just point it at your router. Very good to know; many thanks! > I've always had a custom Linux IP Tables firewall as my border > device connected to a Linksys cable modem, or that piece of crap > modem Verizon gives you for DSL. [...]I n fact, the last time I > called Comcast techsupport, they outright asked me "Are you running > home network" and "how many computers are behind it?" [...] One tech to whom I mentioned that I had a router behind my Adelphia cable modem told me he did the same at home. Hardware detail: down here (Blacksburg) at least, last time I tried to get Verizon DSL, they sent me a Westell VersaLink model 327W, whose manual says it combines a modem and a router -- and it does have four ports, beside the DSL inbound, on the back. It may still be junk -- verizon failed again, never giving me an actual connection; so I haven't tried it -- but if even Verizon understands that it's in their own interest to make sure people have routers, then the paragraph about OS support *may* just be something that the last editor of the page missed taking out. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From nick at hackermonkey.com Sun Jun 5 17:33:29 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Sun Jun 5 18:35:22 2005 Subject: [novalug] Ubuntu linux torrent link Message-ID: <42A36FA9.6080308@hackermonkey.com> Does anyone have a torrent link for Ubuntu? The link on their site main doesnt seem to work, and downloading the ISO direct from there says something about taking 50+ hours. Not something I really wanted to do :-) Anyone? Anyone?....Either another torrent, or an alternative place to get the ISO would be fine. -Nick From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sun Jun 5 19:11:57 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sun Jun 5 20:12:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] Ubuntu linux torrent link In-Reply-To: <42A36FA9.6080308@hackermonkey.com> References: <42A36FA9.6080308@hackermonkey.com> Message-ID: <1118013117.29856.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 17:33 -0400, Nick Danger wrote: > Does anyone have a torrent link for Ubuntu? The link on their site main > doesnt seem to work, and downloading the ISO direct from there says > something about taking 50+ hours. Not something I really wanted to do > :-) Anyone? Anyone?....Either another torrent, or an alternative place > to get the ISO would be fine. > > -Nick What ftp site did you pick? Also what is your access speed? I went to "United States" and clicked on "Intel x86 install CD" and it estimated it at about two(2) hours. {Which if I remember correctly was about how long it took to download it just before FOSE took place.} I've got Verizon DSL here. Note "Torrent" is going to reduce download time, and may even increase it, if the problem is a slow link to the Internet at your end. The above said you might try doing a Google on: Ubuntu Hedgehog torrent iso {it returns about 500 hits and most of the first 10 looked interesting} -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From nick at hackermonkey.com Sun Jun 5 20:59:00 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Sun Jun 5 20:59:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Ubuntu linux torrent link In-Reply-To: <1118013117.29856.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42A36FA9.6080308@hackermonkey.com> <1118013117.29856.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42A39FD4.90809@hackermonkey.com> donjr wrote: > >and it estimated it at about two(2) hours. > > I did it again, and this time it reported something much more resonable. Im not sure what was up with the really slow speeds I was getting before, I'll call it a fluke. >Note "Torrent" is going to reduce download time, and may even increase >it, if the problem is a slow link to the Internet at your end. > > It wasnt. I was hoping the torrent would give me a few alternate sites to d/l from. Besides the fact that it does the very nice error checking as it d/ls. I've had enough ISOs fail the MD5 check after waiting for a 2 hour download that I appriciate the error checking bits now. >The above said you might try doing a Google on: > Ubuntu Hedgehog torrent iso >{it returns about 500 hits and most of the first 10 looked interesting} > > Did that before I posted. The first two pages are almost all mirrors of the main page. These all point to the same torrent link that failed to start up, I forget the exact torrent error, something about the master seed. The rest were mostly reviews, with pointers back to the main site for downloading. I was hoping linuxiso.org would have them, but alas, they did not. Whenever I look for the new Knoppix versions there is a very nice torrent page/counter/info that comes up, and it gives me a working link. I was hoping to find such a thing with Ubuntu as well, but I guess no such luck. Thanks for the help! -Nick From cmhowe at patriot.net Mon Jun 6 01:33:32 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Mon Jun 6 01:54:05 2005 Subject: [novalug] Viewing links from Evolution Message-ID: <1118036013.13029.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am now reading my mail using Evolution (nothing new) using Verizon DSL as opposed to dialup (new). When I click on a link it is boxed (black line above and below and at ends) and a legend appears at the bottom of the page saying, "Click here to open http:// whatever". But it doesn't display the site. It would have when I was using dialup. What's happening? Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Mon Jun 6 01:27:25 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Mon Jun 6 02:12:25 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC Message-ID: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Hi all, After being a "lurker" for a few years, I think it's time I open up a bit ;) I'm trying to use IPSEC for the first time, and using RHES I'm being a bit lazy using the standard config scripts. At least that should minimize my initial problems, right?? WRONG! It's using IPSEC - and part of the interface script contains: ip route add to via This returns with "Network is Unreachable". And I'm puzzled. The commands seems to just add a "simple" rule to the routing table. Neigher the network address or the remote IPs are on the computer - for good reasons. I'm trying to create a tunnel to it. I need a primer on what ip route is trying to do and how I (eventually) can resolve this problem? I can't find too much on what the error message excatly means. At this point I haven't setup the opposide side of the port - so racoon cannot connect. But I'm just setting the system up initially right now. Maybe this is naturally and to be expected - does someone know? Thanks Regards Peter Larsen (in Fredericksburg) From cliff at palmercs.com Mon Jun 6 07:36:49 2005 From: cliff at palmercs.com (Palmer) Date: Mon Jun 6 07:36:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... Message-ID: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBUBJ5QK9E.html From keith.casey at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 07:58:30 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Mon Jun 6 09:45:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Message-ID: On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% automated Cameras. She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been Photoshopped/Gimped. IANAL, but she is. keith -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com On 6/6/05, Palmer wrote: > http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGBUBJ5QK9E.html From greg at pryzby.org Mon Jun 6 09:53:50 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Mon Jun 6 10:06:23 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Message-ID: <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> IANAL, So the other 'trick' I heard about (too late for me to try! did I mention I HATE Baltimore and the roads around there?) to keep from points showing up in your home state: When you pay the ticket, send in a few dollars more. The jurisdiction needs to send you a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THE CHECK. If you do NOT cash the check, the case is not closed and the infraction is NOT reported to your home state. No idea if this works but if I every have to go to Baltimore again and get a ticket, I will try it. On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:30AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a > former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% > automated Cameras. > > She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, > you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is > this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" > > When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image > is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If > it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the > "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been > Photoshopped/Gimped. > > IANAL, but she is. -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050606/099f3cfb/attachment.bin From patrick.mullaley at mci.com Mon Jun 6 10:43:54 2005 From: patrick.mullaley at mci.com (Patrick Mullaley) Date: Mon Jun 6 11:01:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <1118069034.9183.17.camel@dyn63-87-47-230.wlan.research.uu.net> This is urban legend. Just because you paid too much, you still paid. They are required to try to get you the overage back, but if you do not cash it, that is too bad for you. On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 09:53 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > IANAL, > > So the other 'trick' I heard about (too late for me to try! did I > mention I HATE Baltimore and the roads around there?) to keep from > points showing up in your home state: > > When you pay the ticket, send in a few dollars more. The jurisdiction > needs to send you a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THE CHECK. > If you do NOT cash the check, the case is not closed and the > infraction is NOT reported to your home state. > > No idea if this works but if I every have to go to Baltimore again and > get a ticket, I will try it. > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:30AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > > On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a > > former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% > > automated Cameras. > > > > She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, > > you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is > > this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" > > > > When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image > > is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If > > it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the > > "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been > > Photoshopped/Gimped. > > > > IANAL, but she is. > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From nick at mrtizmo.com Mon Jun 6 10:45:59 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jun 6 11:04:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> The ip route command is trying to add a route to allow your computer/network to send traffic to the other end. If you don't have the other end setup, then that "Network is Unreachable". If ip route is trying to add a route and that network is unreachable, it will NOT add the route; hence you get the error warning. Setup the other end as you think it should be and then try to make the IPSEC tunnel. HTH's Nick Davis On Mon, June 6, 2005 1:27, Peter Larsen said: > Hi all, > After being a "lurker" for a few years, I think it's time I open up a bit ;) > > I'm trying to use IPSEC for the first time, and using RHES I'm being a > bit lazy using the standard config scripts. At least that should > minimize my initial problems, right?? > > WRONG! It's using IPSEC - and part of the interface script contains: > ip route add to via > > This returns with "Network is Unreachable". And I'm puzzled. The > commands seems to just add a "simple" rule to the routing table. Neigher > the network address or the remote IPs are on the computer - for good > reasons. I'm trying to create a tunnel to it. > > I need a primer on what ip route is trying to do and how I (eventually) > can resolve this problem? I can't find too much on what the error > message excatly means. > > At this point I haven't setup the opposide side of the port - so racoon > cannot connect. But I'm just setting the system up initially right now. > Maybe this is naturally and to be expected - does someone know? > > Thanks > > Regards > Peter Larsen (in Fredericksburg) > From st0rm at fool.com Mon Jun 6 10:26:58 2005 From: st0rm at fool.com (st0rm) Date: Mon Jun 6 11:04:05 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> Message-ID: Check these out before you try it.. looks like you could lose the extra money: http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/library/blpoints.htm http://truthminers.com/hoaxarticles/ticket.htm http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/tickets.htm :/ On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, gregory pryzby wrote: > IANAL, > > So the other 'trick' I heard about (too late for me to try! did I > mention I HATE Baltimore and the roads around there?) to keep from > points showing up in your home state: > > When you pay the ticket, send in a few dollars more. The jurisdiction > needs to send you a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THE CHECK. > If you do NOT cash the check, the case is not closed and the > infraction is NOT reported to your home state. > > No idea if this works but if I every have to go to Baltimore again and > get a ticket, I will try it. > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:30AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > > On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a > > former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% > > automated Cameras. > > > > She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, > > you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is > > this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" > > > > When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image > > is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If > > it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the > > "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been > > Photoshopped/Gimped. > > > > IANAL, but she is. > > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F > From greg at pryzby.org Mon Jun 6 11:03:44 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Mon Jun 6 11:16:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: <1118069034.9183.17.camel@dyn63-87-47-230.wlan.research.uu.net> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> <1118069034.9183.17.camel@dyn63-87-47-230.wlan.research.uu.net> Message-ID: <20050606150343.GI2000@pryzby.org> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:43:54AM -0400, Patrick Mullaley wrote: > This is urban legend. Just because you paid too much, you still paid. > They are required to try to get you the overage back, but if you do not > cash it, that is too bad for you. The point is that if the account is NOT even, they don't report it. Of course it is probably legend. > > On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 09:53 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > > IANAL, > > > > So the other 'trick' I heard about (too late for me to try! did I > > mention I HATE Baltimore and the roads around there?) to keep from > > points showing up in your home state: > > > > When you pay the ticket, send in a few dollars more. The jurisdiction > > needs to send you a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THE CHECK. > > If you do NOT cash the check, the case is not closed and the > > infraction is NOT reported to your home state. > > > > No idea if this works but if I every have to go to Baltimore again and > > get a ticket, I will try it. > > > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:30AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > > > On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a > > > former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% > > > automated Cameras. > > > > > > She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, > > > you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is > > > this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" > > > > > > When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image > > > is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If > > > it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the > > > "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been > > > Photoshopped/Gimped. > > > > > > IANAL, but she is. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > novalug mailing list > > novalug@tux.org > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050606/5f5024a7/attachment.bin From patrick.mullaley at mci.com Mon Jun 6 11:02:51 2005 From: patrick.mullaley at mci.com (Patrick Mullaley) Date: Mon Jun 6 11:18:32 2005 Subject: [novalug] Makes ya wanna say hmmmm.... In-Reply-To: <20050606150343.GI2000@pryzby.org> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <20050606135350.GE2000@pryzby.org> <1118069034.9183.17.camel@dyn63-87-47-230.wlan.research.uu.net> <20050606150343.GI2000@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <1118070172.9183.22.camel@dyn63-87-47-230.wlan.research.uu.net> http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ticket.asp On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 11:03 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:43:54AM -0400, Patrick Mullaley wrote: > > This is urban legend. Just because you paid too much, you still paid. > > They are required to try to get you the overage back, but if you do not > > cash it, that is too bad for you. > > The point is that if the account is NOT even, they don't report it. > > Of course it is probably legend. > > > > > On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 09:53 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote: > > > IANAL, > > > > > > So the other 'trick' I heard about (too late for me to try! did I > > > mention I HATE Baltimore and the roads around there?) to keep from > > > points showing up in your home state: > > > > > > When you pay the ticket, send in a few dollars more. The jurisdiction > > > needs to send you a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THE CHECK. > > > If you do NOT cash the check, the case is not closed and the > > > infraction is NOT reported to your home state. > > > > > > No idea if this works but if I every have to go to Baltimore again and > > > get a ticket, I will try it. > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:30AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > > > > On another note, I was recently talking with my mother-in-law - a > > > > former State's Attorney in Illinois - about Red Light/Speeding/100% > > > > automated Cameras. > > > > > > > > She said that your best bet is to fight it and when you go to court, > > > > you simply ask the prosecution's witness (ie. the police's rep): "Is > > > > this a Fair and Accurate Representation of the Situation?" > > > > > > > > When a person is taking the picture, they can state "Yes, this image > > > > is an accurate representation has not been modified in any way." If > > > > it's 100% automated, this is no one to establish what would be the > > > > "chain of custody" and to testify that the image has not been > > > > Photoshopped/Gimped. > > > > > > > > IANAL, but she is. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > novalug mailing list > > > novalug@tux.org > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > > > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From nick at mrtizmo.com Mon Jun 6 13:40:42 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jun 6 13:40:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Ok. First no, it's not a catch-22. You need to ready both ends for the tunnel before you tell them to try to make the tunnel. Both ends need to be able to see eachother, and they both need to have the key or certificate the IPsec tunnel will be using, before the tunnel can be setup. Are you trying to make a host-host tunnel or host-network or network-network? Here is the RHEL4 security guide. Look down to Section II, part 6 (VPN's): http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/security-guide/ I think the problems you are running into are: 1. You have to allow the connection through your firewall(s). If the hosts at the ends of your tunnel cannot talk to eachother, they will not setup a tunnel either. You can test if this is your problem by adding a rule to allow both hosts to connect to each other without restriction.. temporarily of course. 2. You are not starting things in the correct order.. yes I know.. you are posting your question to ask what order to start things in. If you read the RHEL4 documentation above there is a very good explanation tailored for your system. There are a lot of variables involved in the setup on your system that I do not know, that's why I'm giving you resources to read through instead of telling you what to do. As you look through the RHEL4 doc's and you have questions, post them here (NOVALUG) we'll answer as best we can. Make sure to include lots of details (i.e. the type of tunnel you are trying to make, the version of RHEL you have, what error messages you are getting, what commands you are trying to run, etc). HTH's Nick Davis On Mon, June 6, 2005 11:20, Peter Larsen said: > > > Nick Davis wrote: >> The ip route command is trying to add a route to allow your computer/network to send >> traffic to the other end. If you don't have the other end setup, then that "Network >> is >> Unreachable". If ip route is trying to add a route and that network is unreachable, >> it >> will NOT add the route; hence you get the error warning. Setup the other end as you >> think it should be and then try to make the IPSEC tunnel. > > Isn't that a catch 22?? > Setting up the other gives the same error - because this end is not > operating? How/where do I start? Do I need to enable/test racoon (port > 500) first? > > Basicly - the IP given is currently blocked and the firewall will > definately send a ICMP "unreachable" back. But then, without the tunnel > software running, you'll just get the same error - but from the host? > Can you tell I'm confused?? hehe. > > Best Regards > Peter Larsen > >> >> On Mon, June 6, 2005 1:27, Peter Larsen said: >> >>>Hi all, >>>After being a "lurker" for a few years, I think it's time I open up a bit ;) >>> >>>I'm trying to use IPSEC for the first time, and using RHES I'm being a >>>bit lazy using the standard config scripts. At least that should >>>minimize my initial problems, right?? >>> >>>WRONG! It's using IPSEC - and part of the interface script contains: >>>ip route add to via >>> >>>This returns with "Network is Unreachable". And I'm puzzled. The >>>commands seems to just add a "simple" rule to the routing table. Neigher >>>the network address or the remote IPs are on the computer - for good >>>reasons. I'm trying to create a tunnel to it. >>> >>>I need a primer on what ip route is trying to do and how I (eventually) >>>can resolve this problem? I can't find too much on what the error >>>message excatly means. >>> >>>At this point I haven't setup the opposide side of the port - so racoon >>>cannot connect. But I'm just setting the system up initially right now. >>>Maybe this is naturally and to be expected - does someone know? >>> >>>Thanks >>> >>>Regards >>> Peter Larsen (in Fredericksburg) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> novalug mailing list >> novalug@tux.org >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> > From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Mon Jun 6 15:33:43 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Mon Jun 6 15:34:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: References: <1117865066.27638.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42A4A517.3010800@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Scott Kapel wrote: > FWIW, I've noticed that if you drop a few networking terms, or mention > that you're a system's or network engineer, the tech support folk at > Verizon, Comcast, or COX all sort of flop over and become quite > coopertive. I think it all depends on who you get to. They might have been reading scripts so long, that they think it's true. It's been my experience the last few times with Adelphia. One time I needed a new modem initialized, and this fellow got totally obscene when I told him I was running Linux and accessing through a wireless router. I told him that I could ping my default gateway, and all 10.x addresses worked, which indicated to me that my modem wasn't authorized by the adelphia routers to leave the network. And because I had just received a replacement from my old one, if he could activate it. first order: Start your browser - and I asked why? I cannot ping IPs outside the 10.x - why do you need a browser? And it just went down hill from there - after he explained that Adelphia didn't use routers but servers, I just hung up and almost cried! 30 minutes later I dared again, and this fellow knew what I asked for - and in 10 minutes things were running again (ok, I cheated - I didn't shut off my computers; but what he doesn't know won't hurt him). At other times I've gotten the same "nasty" response when I would complain about my old modem loosing it's connection. I've learned over time to 1) Do not mention you're using any os, router or firewall. 2) Only call if you know you have a hardware failure. > Don't know about this new outfit. Regardless, when you do > this, TS folk tend to realize they're outclassed (since they're > usually reading from a script) and those who have skill or know their > biz (kudos to them) will cooperate if for no other reason than to > prove themselves or learn from you. I must meet the techs you speak too. When Adelphia was "Prestige" they had this tech who created an IRC server for tech issues, and it worked GREAT! He could monitor/fix and even explain. We exchanged lots of info about the network and he would explain what was "supported" and what was not. Unfortunately, I think Adelphia fired/lost everyone with a brain when they went backrupt. > I've had networks with all 3 of > these providers, and have had good tech support experiences in > general. What the provider "supports" and what you can "get away with" > are usually two different things altogether. Right - at Adelphia they don't do much monitoring at all, and you basicly can get away with anything. They've blocked port 80 - that's it. Since I've never trusted their network services, I basicly run everything else on my local lan, including mail; however using a proxy relay. > That said, does anyone still hook directly to their provider from one > system running whatever OS? Hmmm - that's how my config actually is: CABLE MODEM | v LINUX IPTABLES FIREWALL | v SWITCH (rest of network and internal firewalls, wireless routers etc). My iptables on the firewall is extreemly customized - to the effect of blocking out most of Adelphia's internal IPs cause I kept getting scanned fra all over adelphia's internal network. > So dangerous... I was under the impression > that it was standard practice for most home users to be using some > form of networking device at the border, like a Linksys wireless > router or such. Help me understand what the difference is - from a security perspective ... my linksys wireless device all use Linux under the hood (hehe) - and so does their firewalls? If IPTABLES run on theirs or my dedicated firewall box - I don't see the difference - except in the physical size of the box ;) > Sounds like this new outfit supports these devices, > and for their nominal cost, it seems logical to put your system beind > such a device. Once you do so, it doesn't matter what OS you run--just > point it at your router. It has a known entity to it from the support side. It's possible to tell a user to grab a browser and look at the setup. Easier than customized software firewalls where everyone has thier own. At least for 1st tier support. My problem with many of these fixed firewalls is lack of logging and traceability. > 24 for this new outfit). In fact, the last time I called Comcast > techsupport, they outright asked me "Are you running home network" > and "how many computers are behind it?" The providers are getting the > message that their "officially supported" view of the world--one > user/one computer/Windows somethingorotherversion/direct > connection--isn't realistic anymore, and if this new outfit doesn't > get this as well, I'd be hesitant to use them. If anyone comes on the > market these days storming in and saying "We only support such and > such", then they've not done their market research well enough, and > probably don't deserve our business. Ohhh - I totally agree. I get that question every time - and once they have irritated me enough at support, I ask why? I tell them I'm logged onto the firewall and the network no longer matters - it's like they don't listen. Very frustrating. This said from a person who's seriously thinking about dropping Adelphia and move to Verizon DSL; any hints why NOT to do that? I do realize that first tier techs are the same all over; and I don't really blame those poor fellows - they don't have much choice. I could use a bit more understanding when you have specific issues and not just "my internet doesn't work". Best Regards Peter Larsen > On 6/4/05, donjr wrote: > >>On Fri, 2005-06-03 at 16:50 -0700, Beartooth wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Did either of you happen to read item number 28? >>>> >>>> 28. What operating systems are compatible with the WildBlue >>>>service? >>>> >>>>And their answer is: >>>> Windows/PC: Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP >>>> Mac: OS 9.x, OS 10.2 or higher >>>> >>>>I don't even see any "real" operating systems(OS) listed, other then >>>>possibly the sideways reference to "Apple OS". >>> >>> Yes, I saw it; but afaik, verizon *still* doesn't support >>>linux -- nor do many smaller ISPs. But many people use them in spite >>>of that. >> >>But the support or NON direct support of Linux {or other "Real Operating >>System} by Verizon doesn't make much difference in the ablity to use >>there service with same. Besides as far as Verizon and usage by Linux or >>BSD someone out there has already figured out how to set it up and use >>it. >> >>Is this later true for WildBlue? >> If not you willing to be the first to try and figure it out? >> {Note you are talking about close to a $1,000.00 investment (only >>partically refundable) to get the first 30 days of service.} >> >>Most satellite setups to date require that a special client be installed >>on the connecting PC in order to setup and {more importantly} maintain >>the connection, without this client there is no connection. >> >>Now "24. Can I use wireless home networking with WildBlue?" >>and it's answer of: >>"Yes. WildBlue is compatible with all major wireless home networking >>products." >> >>Hint's at the possibility that WildBlue doesn't require a special client >>in order to maintain it's connection. Or that the standard client that's >>part of most modern wireless hubs is all that's required. >> >>If this assumption is true. Then it doesn't matter what OS the user >>client is running and instead only that it{the user's client} support >>standard TCP/IP networking protocol. >> >> >>-- >>-- >> Don E. Groves, Jr. >> >>=============================================================== >>A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I >>want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be >>difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". >> >>The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" >>_______________________________________________ >>novalug mailing list >>novalug@tux.org >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Mon Jun 6 16:59:17 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Mon Jun 6 17:00:02 2005 Subject: Caveat! Re: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <42A4A517.3010800@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Peter Larsen wrote: [....] > Very frustrating. This said from a person who's seriously > thinking about dropping Adelphia and move to Verizon DSL; any hints why > NOT to do that? [....] Do it with bells on, IF you can ; but be triple plate damn sure you can. I've had verizon DSL both in Vienna (for several years) and here in Blacksburg (for six months, at the opposite corner of town. Verizon has accepted orders from me three times, and solicited them a lot more -- and never delivered, or even acknowledged (much less explained) its inability to perform. We even made sure before we closed on this house that the first order had been accepted. What's worse is that every other DSL provider, at least here, simply rents lines from verizon. If it can't (or won't admit it can; I doubt very seriously that anyone at verizon knows what a mind is), they can't or won't, either. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Mon Jun 6 18:26:49 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Mon Jun 6 18:27:34 2005 Subject: Caveat! Re: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A4CDA9.6000703@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Beartooth wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Peter Larsen wrote: >>Very frustrating. This said from a person who's seriously >>thinking about dropping Adelphia and move to Verizon DSL; any hints why >>NOT to do that? [....] > Do it with bells on, IF you can ; but be triple plate damn > sure you can. Well, except for not actually doing the connection, I am pretty sure. > > I've had verizon DSL both in Vienna (for several years) and > here in Blacksburg (for six months, at the opposite corner of town. > Verizon has accepted orders from me three times, and solicited them a > lot more -- and never delivered, or even acknowledged (much less > explained) its inability to perform. We even made sure before we > closed on this house that the first order had been accepted. LMAO - sorry, this is too funny. I called last month and inquired about a few details on their contract - because their website only really works with IE - and I don't. I called on a Thursday, and on Monday I had a modem I didn't order :) I had to call and tell them I hadn't ordered anything. We were on the verge of a vacation. But now that we're back I'll return to my "evil plans" of dropping Adelphia. I'm really not a happy camper with them at all. > > What's worse is that every other DSL provider, at least here, > simply rents lines from verizon. If it can't (or won't admit it can; I > doubt very seriously that anyone at verizon knows what a mind is), > they can't or won't, either. Yeah - that's where the legistration is stranded right now. This definately is not a liberal market place. Maybe the US should learn from Europe - have one company (or the state) own the lines, and have compies rent on equal basis from this company (that cannot a provider itself). Best Regards Peter Larsen From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Mon Jun 6 18:28:45 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Mon Jun 6 18:29:06 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Message-ID: <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Ok - I have to get used to this. The reply only went to the sender ... So I try again. Nick Davis wrote: > Ok. First no, it's not a catch-22. You need to ready both ends for the tunnel before > you tell them to try to make the tunnel. Both ends need to be able to see eachother, > and they both need to have the key or certificate the IPsec tunnel will be using, > before the tunnel can be setup. Hi Nick, I'm using RHES3 - but other than that, I've followed the guide that came with RHES3, which is basicly similar to the one you specified. I must be honest - I tried to simplify the issue - because the "ip route" command is the only one failing; it did not seem to me that racoon was in the picture (I assume the routing table must be updated before racoon is even called). I know - Don't make an Ass out of U and ME :) So - I've now opened port 500 on both sides. I can telnet through (connection is terminated immediately - but I see it on tcpdump). I still get the route add error. > Are you trying to make a host-host tunnel or host-network or network-network? network-to-network. These are my parameters: System 1: Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 Gateway: 172.16.52.1 External: 38.144.124.x ifcfg-ipsec0: ONBOOT=no IKE_METHOD=PSK DSTGW=10.2.0.1 SRCGW=172.16.52.1 DSTNET=10.2.0.0/16 SRCNET=172.16.52.0/24 DST=65.160.96.x TYPE=IPSEC System 2: Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 Gateway: 10.2.0.1 ifcfg-ipsec1: ONBOOT=no IKE_METHOD=PSK DSTGW=172.16.52.1 SRCGW=10.2.0.1 DSTNET=172.16.52.0/24 SRCNET=10.2.0.10/16 DST=38.144.124.x TYPE=IPSEC Both have the same shared key (verifed again) - but it's my oppinion that the shared key or racoon really are not connected to the ip route add command? ip_forward is set to 1 on both systems too. > Here is the RHEL4 security guide. Look down to Section II, part 6 (VPN's): > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/security-guide/ As stated - I've used the similar manual - for RHEL 3.0. Basicly same content. > I think the problems you are running into are: > 1. You have to allow the connection through your firewall(s). If the hosts at the ends > of your tunnel cannot talk to eachother, they will not setup a tunnel either. You can > test if this is your problem by adding a rule to allow both hosts to connect to each > other without restriction.. temporarily of course. That I surely understand - but I don't see how the firewall and more is even involved when the "ip route add" command is established?? The document states: "The connections are activated, and both LAN A and B are able to communicate with each other. The routes are created automatically via the initialization script called by running ifup on the IPsec connection. To show a list of routes for the network, run the following command: /sbin/ip route list". As you know - the route add fails, so this step seems pretty important. I'm going through the syslog logs now to follow a issue I see on racoon (it does not negotiate - and tcpdump shows the messages aren't getting through - but remember, I can telnet to the port). > 2. You are not starting things in the correct order.. yes I know.. you are posting > your question to ask what order to start things in. If you read the RHEL4 > documentation above there is a very good explanation tailored for your system. I don't see any start order specified? > There are a lot of variables involved in the setup on your system that I do not know, > that's why I'm giving you resources to read through instead of telling you what to do. Right - this is more complicated than I first expected. I used the redhat config scripts in anticipation that things wouldn't be too complicated to get started. How wrong I was :( > As you look through the RHEL4 doc's and you have questions, post them here (NOVALUG) > we'll answer as best we can. Make sure to include lots of details (i.e. the type of > tunnel you are trying to make, the version of RHEL you have, what error messages you > are getting, what commands you are trying to run, etc). See above ... I think I've posted all I have. I'm still at the same stage - and I don't find an answer to the ip route problem in redhat's documentation - unfortunately. Best Regards Peter Larsen > > On Mon, June 6, 2005 11:20, Peter Larsen said: > >> >> Nick Davis wrote: >> >>> The ip route command is trying to add a route to allow your computer/network to send >>> traffic to the other end. If you don't have the other end setup, then that "Network >>> is >>> Unreachable". If ip route is trying to add a route and that network is unreachable, >>> it >>> will NOT add the route; hence you get the error warning. Setup the other end as you >>> think it should be and then try to make the IPSEC tunnel. >> >> >> Isn't that a catch 22?? >> Setting up the other gives the same error - because this end is not >> operating? How/where do I start? Do I need to enable/test racoon (port >> 500) first? >> >> Basicly - the IP given is currently blocked and the firewall will >> definately send a ICMP "unreachable" back. But then, without the tunnel >> software running, you'll just get the same error - but from the host? >> Can you tell I'm confused?? hehe. >> >> Best Regards >> Peter Larsen >> >> >>> On Mon, June 6, 2005 1:27, Peter Larsen said: >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> After being a "lurker" for a few years, I think it's time I open up a bit ;) >>>> >>>> I'm trying to use IPSEC for the first time, and using RHES I'm being a >>>> bit lazy using the standard config scripts. At least that should >>>> minimize my initial problems, right?? >>>> >>>> WRONG! It's using IPSEC - and part of the interface script contains: >>>> ip route add to via >>>> >>>> This returns with "Network is Unreachable". And I'm puzzled. The >>>> commands seems to just add a "simple" rule to the routing table. Neigher >>>> the network address or the remote IPs are on the computer - for good >>>> reasons. I'm trying to create a tunnel to it. >>>> >>>> I need a primer on what ip route is trying to do and how I (eventually) >>>> can resolve this problem? I can't find too much on what the error >>>> message excatly means. >>>> >>>> At this point I haven't setup the opposide side of the port - so racoon >>>> cannot connect. But I'm just setting the system up initially right now. >>>> Maybe this is naturally and to be expected - does someone know? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Peter Larsen (in Fredericksburg) >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> novalug mailing list >>> novalug@tux.org >>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >>> >> > From rzewnickie at rfa.org Mon Jun 6 18:14:31 2005 From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki) Date: Mon Jun 6 18:44:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] [joey@infodrom.org: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 released] Message-ID: <20050606221430.GN3996@rfa.org> ----- Forwarded message from Martin Schulze ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:39:54 +0200 From: Martin Schulze Subject: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 released To: Debian Announcements ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Debian Project http://www.debian.org/ Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 released press@debian.org June 6th, 2005 http://www.debian.org/News/2005/20050606 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 released The Debian Project is pleased to announce the official release of Debian GNU/Linux version 3.1 codenamed ``sarge'' after nearly three years of constant development. Debian GNU/Linux is a free operating system which supports a total of eleven processor architectures, includes KDE, GNOME and GNUstep desktop environments, features cryptographic software, is compatible with the FHS v2.3, and supports software developed for the LSB. With the development of the new debian-installer, this release features a new, modular and sophisticated installation routine with integrated hardware detection and unattended installation capabilities. The installation is available in about thirty languages and includes configuration of the X server for many graphic cards. The task selection system has been revamped and made more flexible. The debconf tool has been integrated into most packages that need to be configured and makes this easier and more user friendly. Debian GNU/Linux can be installed from various installation media such as DVDs, CDs, USB sticks, a few floppies, or from the network. It can be downloaded now, and will soon be available on DVD and CD-ROM from numerous vendors . Debian GNU/Linux runs on computers ranging from palmtops and handheld systems to supercomputers, and on nearly everything in between. A total of eleven architectures are supported, including Motorola 68k (m68k), Sun SPARC (sparc), HP Alpha (alpha), Motorola/IBM PowerPC (powerpc), Intel IA-32 (i386) and IA-64 (ia64), HP PA-RISC (hppa), MIPS (mips, mipsel), ARM (arm) and IBM S/390 (s390). This release includes a number of up-to-date large software packages, such as the K Desktop Environment 3.3 (KDE), the GNOME desktop environment 2.8, the GNUstep desktop, XFree86 4.3.0, GIMP 2.2.6, Mozilla 1.7.8, Galeon 1.3.20, Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2, Firefox 1.0.4, PostgreSQL 7.4.7, MySQL 4.0.24 and 4.1.11a, GNU Compiler Collection 3.3.5 (GCC), Linux kernel versions 2.4.27 and 2.6.8, Apache 1.3.33 and 2.0.54, Samba 3.0.14, Python 2.3.5 and 2.4.1, Perl 5.8.4 and much more. This is the first Debian release that includes OpenOffice.org (1.1.3). It also features cryptographic software integrated in the main distribution. OpenSSH and GNU Privacy Guard are included in the default installation, and strong encryption is present in web browsers, web servers, databases, and many other applications available in this release. Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 includes the efforts of the Debian-Edu/Skolelinux, Debian-Med and Debian-Accessibility sub-projects which boosted the number of educational packages and those with a medical affiliation as well as packages designed especially for people with disabilities. Upgrades to Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 from the previous release Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 codenamed ``woody'' are automatically handled by the aptitude package management tool, and to a certain degree also by the apt-get package management tool. As always, Debian GNU/Linux systems can be upgraded painlessly, in place, without any forced downtime. For detailed instructions about installing and upgrading Debian GNU/Linux, please see the release notes . About Debian ------------ Debian GNU/Linux is a free operating system, developed by more than thousand volunteers from all over the world who collaborate via the Internet. Debian's dedication to Free Software, its non-profit nature, and its open development model make it unique among GNU/Linux distributions. The Debian project's key strengths are its volunteer base, its dedication to the Debian Social Contract, and its commitment to provide the best operating system possible. Debian 3.1 is another important step in that direction. Contact Information ------------------- For further information, please visit the Debian web pages at or send mail to .

-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-announce-REQUEST@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eric Dantan Rzewnicki | Systems Administrator Technical Operations Division | Radio Free Asia 2025 M Street, NW | Washington, DC 20036 | 202-530-4900 CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact network@rfa.org. From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Mon Jun 6 18:58:51 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Mon Jun 6 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Caveat! Re: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <42A4CDA9.6000703@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Peter Larsen wrote: > LMAO - sorry, this is too funny. I called last month and inquired > about a few details on their contract - because their website only > really works with IE - and I don't. I called on a Thursday, and on > Monday I had a modem I didn't order :) I recently sent *payment* -- to a bill collector -- for one of those modems, which had accompanied an account never turned on. > > We were on the verge of a vacation. But now that we're back I'll > return to my "evil plans" of dropping Adelphia. I'm really not a > happy camper with them at all. In case it wasn't clear, I hate Adelphia with a bitter passion. But I can't *get* DSL -- and I have my doubts about satellite. (Our back yard -- behind a house that faces North -- is heavily wooded ....) -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Mon Jun 6 19:20:21 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Mon Jun 6 19:47:00 2005 Subject: Caveat! Re: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider In-Reply-To: <42A4CDA9.6000703@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A4CDA9.6000703@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <200506061920.21610.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Mon June 6 2005 6:26 pm, Peter Larsen wrote: > Yeah - that's where the legistration is stranded right now. This > definately is not a liberal market place. Maybe the US should learn > from Europe - have one company (or the state) own the lines, and have > compies rent on equal basis from this company (that cannot a provider > itself). > > Best Regards > Peter Larsen I'd be satisfied if the idiots we call local government would just stop granting exclusive franchises. Can't we have some *real* competition? Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Mon Jun 6 20:24:03 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Mon Jun 6 20:24:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Peter Larsen wrote: > System 1: > Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 > Gateway: 172.16.52.1 > External: 38.144.124.x > System 2: > Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 > Gateway: 10.2.0.1 ahh - I might be getting closer than I thought. Turns out the expensive firewall that my company insisted on using, has it's NAT messed up. It's responding with a different IP than what it answers to. I'll have to get the network admin to look at the case and see if that fixes my ip-route issues. I'll keep the list posted. > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From moel at patriot.net Tue Jun 7 01:43:02 2005 From: moel at patriot.net (Moe) Date: Mon Jun 6 23:00:42 2005 Subject: Caveat! Re: [novalug] New Satellite Internet Provider References: Message-ID: <42A533E6.326DA584@patriot.net> Fang You need to look over the (heavy) trees with a sat dish at the peak of your roof, or if that isn't high enough, on a tower next to the house like those sold for ham use (the tower, not the house). (: if you get a sufficiently high tower, you might even bring in Richmond TV too :) Moe ------ Beartooth wrote: > But I can't *get* DSL -- and I have my doubts about > satellite. (Our back yard -- behind a house that faces North -- is > heavily wooded ....) > > -- > Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist From geostone at cox.net Mon Jun 6 20:37:45 2005 From: geostone at cox.net (George Stone) Date: Mon Jun 6 23:07:37 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: SunRocket VOIP? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050606181752.031c8a80@mail.comcast.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050606181752.031c8a80@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42A4EC59.9090505@cox.net> Ross Patterson wrote: > Gents, > > All of you weighed in on the novalug list back in January when the > topic of SunRocket's VOIP service came up - some of you were using it, > others just had opinions. I just received a flyer from them, and it > looks pretty good - $199/year (~$16.50/month) all-inclusive, unlimited > local and long distance, free hookup and gear, and no penalties for > early-out. I've got Comcast in Reston (same as George and Stewart, I > think), and generally have good-to-great IP service, and outages are > almost unheard of (certainly none in the last two years). > > So, anybody still like it and still use it? Would you recommend it to > your friends? > > Thanks, > Ross Patterson > > Ross -- I suppose I was one of the earlier customers. I've had Sunrocket now for about 4 months and am very pleased with it. The quality of calls is very good. I'd say it's as good as the voip I use at the office. Sometimes my name does not show up on caller ID, though. I've kept my Verizon number at the rock-bottom end of service. No outgoing calls on it, just keeping it for emergencies for the moment. Go for it! From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Tue Jun 7 10:57:51 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Tue Jun 7 10:58:28 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub Message-ID: Very Dumb Question about hardware: I now have four machines, each with an ethernet cable into a four-port hub behind a wired router, and all connect. But what will I do when I get one (or possibly two) more machines? If I plug one into a port on the router (which is connected presently only to my cable modem and the hub), will that work all right? Or will it bollix things up, and send me out looking for an eight-port hub? (Maybe a second four-port?) In case it matters, the machines run, and will run Fedora 1,2,3, and probably 4 soon -- and Yellow Dog 4. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 11:16:09 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 11:16:18 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Peter Larsen wrote: > Peter Larsen wrote: > >> System 1: >> Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 >> Gateway: 172.16.52.1 >> External: 38.144.124.x >> > System 2: > >> Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 >> Gateway: 10.2.0.1 > > > ahh - I might be getting closer than I thought. Turns out the expensive > firewall that my company insisted on using, has it's NAT messed up. It's > responding with a different IP than what it answers to. I'll have to > get the network admin to look at the case and see if that fixes my > ip-route issues. > > I'll keep the list posted. Here's an Update .... Fixing the firewall made racoon establish a channel. However, the route still fails :( I think the route is in effect because tcpdump shows activity over the channel if I try to address the remote network - but nothing comes through. I think the issue now is, that IPSEC needs more work on the firewall - and I should ignore (for now) the "ip route add" issue I started out with. Google - here I come! Best Regards Peter Larsen PS. No - talking to one self is not fun :D From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Tue Jun 7 11:18:11 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Tue Jun 7 11:44:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506071118.11947.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Tue June 7 2005 10:57 am, Beartooth wrote: > Very Dumb Question about hardware: > > I now have four machines, each with an ethernet cable into a > four-port hub behind a wired router, and all connect. But what will I > do when I get one (or possibly two) more machines? If I plug one into > a port on the router (which is connected presently only to my cable > modem and the hub), will that work all right? Or will it bollix things > up, and send me out looking for an eight-port hub? (Maybe a second > four-port?) > > In case it matters, the machines run, and will run Fedora > 1,2,3, and probably 4 soon -- and Yellow Dog 4. What I did in a similar situation was to plug an eight port switch into the router and plug the computers into the switch. Not only did it give me more ports, the switch handles network traffic more efficiently. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From nick at mrtizmo.com Tue Jun 7 12:28:05 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 7 12:28:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Hehe.. some people talk to themselves quite regularly. I think they usually end up in institutions though :) If one end of your intended tunnel is behind a device doing NAT, you need to look into NAT-T. By default IPsec will not work through NAT. Search google for IPsec with NAT Traversal. I don't know if your version of FreeS/WAN has the NAT-T patch or not, but this should get you going in the right direction. HTH's Nick Davis On Tue, June 7, 2005 11:16, Peter Larsen said: > > > Peter Larsen wrote: >> Peter Larsen wrote: >> >>> System 1: >>> Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 >>> Gateway: 172.16.52.1 >>> External: 38.144.124.x >>> >> System 2: >> >>> Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 >>> Gateway: 10.2.0.1 >> >> >> ahh - I might be getting closer than I thought. Turns out the expensive >> firewall that my company insisted on using, has it's NAT messed up. It's >> responding with a different IP than what it answers to. I'll have to >> get the network admin to look at the case and see if that fixes my >> ip-route issues. >> >> I'll keep the list posted. > > Here's an Update .... > Fixing the firewall made racoon establish a channel. > However, the route still fails :( I think the route is in effect > because tcpdump shows activity over the channel if I try to address the > remote network - but nothing comes through. > > I think the issue now is, that IPSEC needs more work on the firewall - > and I should ignore (for now) the "ip route add" issue I started out with. > > Google - here I come! > > Best Regards > Peter Larsen > > PS. No - talking to one self is not fun :D > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From castellan2004-member at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 13:24:37 2005 From: castellan2004-member at yahoo.com (Subba Rao) Date: Tue Jun 7 13:51:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] Businessweek - Is the Penguin Faltering? Message-ID: <20050607172437.70124.qmail@web53105.mail.yahoo.com> Here is a Business week article with some much good news at the end. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2005/tc2005067_2133_tc024.htm Regards, SubbaRao From nick at hackermonkey.com Tue Jun 7 13:48:49 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Tue Jun 7 14:17:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] Postfix and the FROM: header Message-ID: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> This is a multipart question. I have installed a few new boxes lately. Two CentOS 4 and an Ubuntu workstation. This is in addtion to all the FC1 and RH7.3 boxes running around all over. And I noticed something changed in how email leaves these servers. Or at least the Ubuntu, and the CentOS4 that I added postfix too. Most mail leaves the servers (or my servers anyway) with a line like FROM: Nick Danger The Ubuntu and now the CentOS that I installed the new Postfix on, all send this FROM: danger@server.sub.dom.tld (Nick Danger) Is this some new format for the From id? Thunderbird/Evolution handle it fine but I still have to use Exchange for some things and then I see 'user@host' as the From instead of 'First Last.' I know, I should not use exchange but at the moment, thats not my choice. (still working on it anyway) So, is this the accepted common format for FROM? Is it changeable, and should I bother or is everything moving to this now? I dont want to change something for convinience to me only to find out Im going against a standard. -Nick From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 15:13:59 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:14:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Message-ID: <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Nick Davis wrote: > Hehe.. some people talk to themselves quite regularly. I think they usually end up in > institutions though :) ohhh yeah, that makes me feel better!! (not) > If one end of your intended tunnel is behind a device doing NAT, you need to look into > NAT-T. By default IPsec will not work through NAT. Search google for IPsec with NAT > Traversal. I don't know if your version of FreeS/WAN has the NAT-T patch or not, but > this should get you going in the right direction. I miss the good old days of no choices ;) I went into this endevor thinking that a tunnel was easy, so a secure tunnel was not too much extra. I might soon drop that "secure" thing if this keeps turning into a maze of options that does not fit. However, this NAT tampering might still be present even on non-encrypted tunnels? RHES3 uses ipsec-tools 0.2.5 - a version that does not include a racoon with nat-t support. The latest 0.5.2 of ipsec-tools seems to have it but it needs kernel 2.6 - which is not RHES3. I don't really have an option to switch kernel. We use RHES to ensure ourselves from this "conflict" hell. So I'm trying to figure out what freeswan is about..... and they roughty say "don't do it" in anything I can find (Strongswan is not really documented as far as I can see?) *sniff* .... I need a band-aid - my head hurts from banging it into the table here :( Best Regards Peter Larsen > > On Tue, June 7, 2005 11:16, Peter Larsen said: > >> >>Peter Larsen wrote: >> >>>Peter Larsen wrote: >>> >>> >>>>System 1: >>>> Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 >>>> Gateway: 172.16.52.1 >>>> External: 38.144.124.x >>>> >>> >>> System 2: >>> >>> >>>> Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 >>>> Gateway: 10.2.0.1 >>> >>> >>>ahh - I might be getting closer than I thought. Turns out the expensive >>>firewall that my company insisted on using, has it's NAT messed up. It's >>>responding with a different IP than what it answers to. I'll have to >>>get the network admin to look at the case and see if that fixes my >>>ip-route issues. >>> >>>I'll keep the list posted. >> >>Here's an Update .... >>Fixing the firewall made racoon establish a channel. >>However, the route still fails :( I think the route is in effect >>because tcpdump shows activity over the channel if I try to address the >>remote network - but nothing comes through. >> >>I think the issue now is, that IPSEC needs more work on the firewall - >>and I should ignore (for now) the "ip route add" issue I started out with. >> >>Google - here I come! >> >>Best Regards >> Peter Larsen >> >>PS. No - talking to one self is not fun :D >> >>_______________________________________________ >>novalug mailing list >>novalug@tux.org >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Tue Jun 7 15:15:49 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:15:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name Message-ID: I've been having so much trouble with Firefox 1.0.4 under FC1 -- I probably installed some extension I shouldn't've -- that even yum remove firefox followed by yum install firefox does no good. So I'm trying to purge every last file I have with firefox in its name. I've got it down to one : /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More Internet When I try to use the command line, I get error messages saying no such file, regardless whether I call it "More," "Internet," or "More Internet." I *can* open it in the GUI; but its owner is root, and I don't much fancy logging out and then back in as root. Is there another way? -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From mstone at mathom.us Tue Jun 7 14:39:07 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:39:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] Postfix and the FROM: header In-Reply-To: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> References: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> Message-ID: <20050607183907.GE19670@mathom.us> On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:48:49PM -0400, Nick Danger wrote: >Is this some new format for the From id? No, it's been the same for decades. The only important part is the email address, the rest is fluff and you can format it however you want. Mike Stone From linux_author at verizon.net Tue Jun 7 14:50:44 2005 From: linux_author at verizon.net (linux_author@verizon.net) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:43:23 2005 Subject: [novalug] Businessweek - Is the Penguin Faltering? In-Reply-To: <20050607172437.70124.qmail@web53105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050607172437.70124.qmail@web53105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0DDF02C3-D785-11D9-9D6D-000A95C279EA@verizon.net> best news of the week for me was Apple's plan to move to Intel... can you imagine quality Apple hardware for Intel? :-) On Jun 7, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Subba Rao wrote: > > Here is a Business week article with some much good > news at the end. > > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2005/ > tc2005067_2133_tc024.htm From johnbyrd at comcast.net Tue Jun 7 15:30:36 2005 From: johnbyrd at comcast.net (John Byrd) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:46:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] OFF TOPIC (OT): srch for SAIT1 scsi tape drive Message-ID: <200506071946.j57JkUx2014003@gwyn.tux.org> All, I am looking for a local vender (d.c. area) for Sony SAIT1 external scsi tape drive. We need to get this picked up today if possible or Tomorrow morning at latest. Don't want to wait for item to be delivered if we can avoid it. Thank you, Please contact me offlist : johnbyrd@comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050607/8420c888/attachment.html From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 15:36:15 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:03:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050607193615.96445.qmail@web61022.mail.yahoo.com> Beartooth, you can 'escape' the space by typing the path like this: /blah/blah/More\ Internet PS: in the Bash shell, which you are undoubtedly using, you can automatically finish paths by hitting the TAB key. So if you just type up to the word 'More' and hit TAB, you'll see the full path correctly typed. -Ben --- Beartooth wrote: > I've got it down to one : > > /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More > Internet > > When I try to use the command line, I get error > messages > saying no such file, regardless whether I call it > "More," "Internet," > or "More Internet." > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rosejw at earthlink.net Tue Jun 7 15:24:04 2005 From: rosejw at earthlink.net (Jonathan Rose) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:13:59 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name Message-ID: <15228343.1118172244177.JavaMail.root@wamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> to remove a file with a space in the filename you need to either quote the filename or escape the spaces. for example: rm /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/'More Internet' OR rm /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More\ Internet Aside from that, there really is no reason you need to delete the More Internet directory, unless you're just reorganizing your KDE menus. It's a personal choice. The only thing it does is take up a little extra disk space. -----Original Message----- From: Beartooth Sent: Jun 7, 2005 3:15 PM To: Novalug Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name I've been having so much trouble with Firefox 1.0.4 under FC1 -- I probably installed some extension I shouldn't've -- that even yum remove firefox followed by yum install firefox does no good. So I'm trying to purge every last file I have with firefox in its name. I've got it down to one : /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More Internet When I try to use the command line, I get error messages saying no such file, regardless whether I call it "More," "Internet," or "More Internet." I *can* open it in the GUI; but its owner is root, and I don't much fancy logging out and then back in as root. Is there another way? -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. _______________________________________________ novalug mailing list novalug@tux.org http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From juliac at patriot.net Tue Jun 7 15:54:00 2005 From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:14:05 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42A5FB58.1010403@patriot.net> Beartooth wrote: > I've been having so much trouble with Firefox 1.0.4 under FC1 > -- I probably installed some extension I shouldn't've -- that even yum > remove firefox followed by yum install firefox does no good. So I'm > trying to purge every last file I have with firefox in its name. > > I've got it down to one : > > /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More Internet > > When I try to use the command line, I get error messages > saying no such file, regardless whether I call it "More," "Internet," > or "More Internet." Call it "More\ Internet" -- you've got to "escape" the space (which doesn't belong in a filename in the first place, what *were* they thinking). Just a hint, though ... rename it or move it, don't delete it outright, you might find you've broken something else with this approach. -- Julia From megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Jun 7 16:06:58 2005 From: megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov (C. Megan Larko) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:30:40 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] Multi-platform open source viewing of images In-Reply-To: <060720051819.6516.42A5E53A0001CA4E00001974216028074802070E999CD39DD302079B9C9A06@att.net> References: <060720051819.6516.42A5E53A0001CA4E00001974216028074802070E999CD39DD302079B9C9A06@att.net> Message-ID: <20050607200658.GA12967@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Justin, Have you tried viewing the info via firefox, opera, konqueror, mozilla or some other flash/java/Real Player enabled brower? I have all of the available media plugins on my firefox and I can watch BBC America stuff just fine. Sometimes the groups don't list that other like programs will work too. megan On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 06:19:38PM +0000, justin-r-swain@att.net wrote: > Are there a Fedora C2 or C3 and open source solution to the following problem? > > Washingtonpost.com links to Microsoft owned NBC4 whose conditions for viewing crime scene surveillance video are as follows: > 1. Operating System and Browser Requirements > You need Windows 98, NT, 2000, XP, or ME and one of the following browsers: > i. Internet Explorer 5.5 or 6.0 > 2. Flash and Media Player Requirements > a. Flash 5.0 or higher for Internet Explorer > b. Windows Media Player 7.1 or higher > [QuickTime and Real Player are not supported.] > > Before I initiate a complaint related to distribution of public safety and community crime data that is viewable only (based on information on web presentation of NBC4?s data host) when using Microsoft proprietary applications and software. I would like to be able to approach the news organs and police involved and present information on functional non-Microsoft alternatives for video formats, OS and applications (preferably open source, GPL.) > > I find it very frustrating not being able to use non-Microsoft software on either my Mac-G4 or Linux Fedora C2 systems to view images that affect life and public safety. > > My preference would be for moving images and still images to be encoded in a format using free downloadable open source, GPL applications that will function with various Pcs, Apple, clone of Apple products, Unix, Linux and browsers that are not exclusively Microsoft. I would also prefer a process where the police department would have the resources and personnel to place still and moving pictures online for viewing ? to distribute data quickly to utilize the general public as an informed group of individuals to observe and report to the police information which may aid the incident investigations. > > _______________________________________________ > ma-linux mailing list > ma-linux@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-linux -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "God, grant me the serenity to prioritize the things I cannot delegate, courage to say no when I need to, and wisdom to know when to go home." -Plagiarized from an unknown source ----------------------------------------------------------------- C. Megan Larko Laboratory for Hydrospheric Sciences Code 614.3 Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 From nick at mrtizmo.com Tue Jun 7 16:35:08 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:35:10 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> On Tue, June 7, 2005 15:13, Peter Larsen said: > > Nick Davis wrote: >> Hehe.. some people talk to themselves quite regularly. I think they usually end up in >> institutions though :) > > ohhh yeah, that makes me feel better!! (not) > >> If one end of your intended tunnel is behind a device doing NAT, you need to look into >> NAT-T. By default IPsec will not work through NAT. Search google for IPsec with NAT Traversal. I don't know if your version of FreeS/WAN has the NAT-T patch or not, but >> this should get you going in the right direction. > > I miss the good old days of no choices ;) > I went into this endevor thinking that a tunnel was easy, so a secure tunnel was not too much extra. I might soon drop that "secure" thing if this keeps turning into a maze of options that does not fit. However, this NAT tampering might still be present even on non-encrypted tunnels? NAT needs to look at the IP headers and change either one or both of the source and destination IP addresses and possibly the source and destination ports; depending on the type of NAT. The reason IPsec usually doesn't work going through NAT is because those IP addresses are in an encryped header and NAT has no way of knowing what they are, where they are, nor how to change them. NAT-T is a method of encapulating those encrypted packed in UDP packets that the NAT device can understand and manipulate. See this site: http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/NATTraversal > RHES3 uses ipsec-tools 0.2.5 - a version that does not include a racoon with nat-t support. The latest 0.5.2 of ipsec-tools seems to have it but it needs kernel 2.6 - which is not RHES3. I don't really have an option to switch kernel. We use RHES to ensure ourselves from this "conflict" hell. Hehe.. that's pretty much why I don't use any RedHat. Anytime you want to do anything out of their narrow scope of what is normal, you are stuck. (I'm not trying to start a disto war here.. just my own reasons why I do what I do..) > So I'm trying to figure out what freeswan is about..... and they roughty say "don't do it" in anything I can find (Strongswan is not really documented as far as I can see?) Also, I guess FreeS/WAN is no longer developed, so you should NOT use it. You should use Openswan instead. Sorry, it's been a while since I setup one of these. http://www.openswan.org/ Ok.. so what is a solution to your problem? Openswan on RHEL3: (it can't be THAT different from RHES3 can it?) http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/RHEL Patch your kernel to do NAT-T: Instructions are in the README when you download Openswan How to go through a NAT: http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/Firewalls Those two things should work for you. > *sniff* .... I need a band-aid - my head hurts from banging it into the table here :( *picks up box of band-aids and tosses them at Peter* Here this should help. Now get that Openswan stuff installed! :) HTH's Nick Davis > Best Regards > Peter Larsen > >> On Tue, June 7, 2005 11:16, Peter Larsen said: >>>Peter Larsen wrote: >>>>Peter Larsen wrote: >>>>>System 1: >>>>> Network: 172.16.52.0/24 IP 172.16.52.68 >>>>> Gateway: 172.16.52.1 >>>>> External: 38.144.124.x >>>> System 2: >>>>> Network: 10.2.0.0/16 IP 10.2.0.10 >>>>> Gateway: 10.2.0.1 >>>>ahh - I might be getting closer than I thought. Turns out the expensive firewall that my company insisted on using, has it's NAT messed up. It's responding with a different IP than what it answers to. I'll have to get the network admin to look at the case and see if that fixes my ip-route issues. >>>>I'll keep the list posted. >>>Here's an Update .... >>>Fixing the firewall made racoon establish a channel. >>>However, the route still fails :( I think the route is in effect because tcpdump shows activity over the channel if I try to address the remote network - but nothing comes through. >>>I think the issue now is, that IPSEC needs more work on the firewall - and I should ignore (for now) the "ip route add" issue I started out with. Google - here I come! >>>Best Regards >>> Peter Larsen >>>PS. No - talking to one self is not fun :D >>>_______________________________________________ >>>novalug mailing list >>>novalug@tux.org >>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> _______________________________________________ >> novalug mailing list >> novalug@tux.org >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From eepierce at earthlink.net Tue Jun 7 15:38:04 2005 From: eepierce at earthlink.net (Ellis Pierce) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:41:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506071538.05003.eepierce@earthlink.net> On Tuesday 07 June 2005 15:15, Beartooth wrote: > I've been having so much trouble with Firefox 1.0.4 under FC1 > -- I probably installed some extension I shouldn't've -- that even yum > remove firefox followed by yum install firefox does no good. So I'm > trying to purge every last file I have with firefox in its name. > > I've got it down to one : > > /var/lib/menu/kde/Applications/Internet/More Internet > > When I try to use the command line, I get error messages > saying no such file, regardless whether I call it "More," "Internet," > or "More Internet." > > I *can* open it in the GUI; but its owner is root, and I don't > much fancy logging out and then back in as root. Is there another way? Try rm Mor*nternet (having checked to make sure there is only one that meets this criterion. Ellis Pierce From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Tue Jun 7 16:48:27 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:48:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name In-Reply-To: <42A5FB58.1010403@patriot.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, Julia Christianson wrote: > > When I try to use the command line, I get error messages > > saying no such file, regardless whether I call it "More," > > "Internet," or "More Internet." > > Call it "More\ Internet" -- you've got to "escape" the space (which > doesn't belong in a filename in the first place, what *were* they > thinking). > > Just a hint, though ... rename it or move it, don't delete it > outright, you might find you've broken something else with this > approach. Well, something *is* broken: I remove ffx entirely, re-install it, and it opens with all the same tabs and (presumably) extensions -- and when I hit Edit, then Preferences, Edit turns white, the drop-down menu disappears, and the whole thing freezes. It won't even close: I have to ps ax | grep firefox, and then kill the last one listed. But you're right nonetheless. I escaped it with a cd command, then ls -- and it had umpteen other things in there. *One* of them was named firefox; "file" called it a symlink to another; I removed both. Now maybe, if I yum install Firefox for the upmteenth time, it'll do it from scratch. Lish me wuck. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 17:36:42 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 17:36:51 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Message-ID: <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Nick Davis wrote: > On Tue, June 7, 2005 15:13, Peter Larsen said: > >> I miss the good old days of no choices ;) >> I went into this endevor thinking that a tunnel was easy, so a secure tunnel was not >> too much extra. I might soon drop that "secure" thing if this keeps turning into a >> maze of options that does not fit. However, this NAT tampering might still be present >> even on non-encrypted tunnels? > > NAT needs to look at the IP headers and change either one or both of the source and > destination IP addresses and possibly the source and destination ports; depending on > the type of NAT. The reason IPsec usually doesn't work going through NAT is because > those IP addresses are in an encryped header and NAT has no way of knowing what they > are, where they are, nor how to change them. NAT-T is a method of encapulating those > encrypted packed in UDP packets that the NAT device can understand and manipulate. See > this site: Right - that I understand (I've run NAT firewalls for about 8 years - mostly just SNAT). However, it was my impression that the reason I needed to give each side the information about local masks, segments and gateway was to avoid this problem? Of course it could be only the set-key thingy that it's used for. > http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/NATTraversal Yeah - I've seen similar discriptions else-where. But most ends with "this is built into the 2.6 kernel" --- grrrr! hehe >>RHES3 uses ipsec-tools 0.2.5 - a version that does not include a racoon with nat-t >>support. The latest 0.5.2 of ipsec-tools seems to have it but it needs kernel 2.6 - >>which is not RHES3. I don't really have an option to switch kernel. We use RHES to >>ensure ourselves from this "conflict" hell. > > Hehe.. that's pretty much why I don't use any RedHat. Anytime you want to do anything > out of their narrow scope of what is normal, you are stuck. (I'm not trying to start a > disto war here.. just my own reasons why I do what I do..) No distro war; there's no way to choose right. We've chosen not to focus on the OS too much but on our app work on it; so a "stable" and easily maintained production system is our focus. Of course the penalty is the lack of all the new fancy things. ES4 (Enterprise Server - some use EL for Enterprise License - same thing) is about out now - and is built on 2.6 - but that would be too big a change at this point. > Also, I guess FreeS/WAN is no longer developed, so you should NOT use it. You should > use Openswan instead. Sorry, it's been a while since I setup one of these. Right - that was clear from their site. > http://www.openswan.org/ hehe - thanks. > Ok.. so what is a solution to your problem? > > Openswan on RHEL3: (it can't be THAT different from RHES3 can it?) > http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/RHEL Still can't find the install guide that talks about NAT-T (it just refers back to FreeS/Wan). > Patch your kernel to do NAT-T: > Instructions are in the README when you download Openswan While I don't hesitate on my home systems to rebuild the kernel - I'm pondering my options here. As you most likely already know, the source that RedHat distributes will NOT build a proper kernel as distributed :( In addition it runs contra to the issues I mentioned above. Loading a new module is fine - but a recompile of the core kernel is not a pleasent option. But thanks for the links - I got more stuff to read now. Like I didn't have enough already :( > How to go through a NAT: > http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/Firewalls That firewall thing would have been REALLY nice Thursday :) Gotta love google - but you need to know what to seach on. I had figured them out by this morning; but man did it take a lot of research. > > Those two things should work for you. I sure hope so. Best Regards Peter Larsen From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Tue Jun 7 17:45:25 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Tue Jun 7 17:45:31 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to kill a file with space in name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, Beartooth wrote: > Now maybe, if I yum install Firefox for the upmteenth time, > it'll do it from scratch. Lish me wuck. I did -- and it *seems* to be working, so far. (I did my celebrated imitation of an amorous porcupine while installing extensions this time.) Many thanks for the help -- and go on lishing me wuck! -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 18:09:10 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 18:09:31 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Peter Larsen wrote: > Nick Davis wrote: > > While I don't hesitate on my home systems to rebuild the kernel - I'm > pondering my options here. As you most likely already know, the source > that RedHat distributes will NOT build a proper kernel as distributed :( > In addition it runs contra to the issues I mentioned above. Loading a > new module is fine - but a recompile of the core kernel is not a > pleasent option. Here I am, talking to myself again :( As I feared, the source from RH will not compile - even before I apply the openswan patch. I'm about to move this issue to the routers - and off my servers. This is simply not worth it for our purpose. I ignored the little "hint" that the server had to be connected directly to the internet (outside the NAT) but since our NAT and firewall is one and the same box, this is simply not possible. *sniff* - it's not fun to be on an old kernel. Not fun at all. Thanks for your help Nick! I really appreachiate it. > But thanks for the links - I got more stuff to read now. Like I didn't > have enough already :( Now it's back to good old Cisco IOS and PIX. Best Regards Peter Larsen From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Tue Jun 7 19:55:07 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Tue Jun 7 20:21:30 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question Message-ID: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Lists can be sorted in Python quite easily. If x=[12,24,3,5,78] x.sort() sorts the list. My question is this: x=[(x,y,z),(a,c,b),(s,t,v)] what's the syntax to sort the list by the second element of each tuple? Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From nick at mrtizmo.com Tue Jun 7 20:27:57 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 7 20:28:00 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> On Tue, June 7, 2005 18:09, Peter Larsen said: > Peter Larsen wrote: >> Nick Davis wrote: > >> While I don't hesitate on my home systems to rebuild the kernel - I'm pondering my options here. As you most likely already know, the source that RedHat distributes will NOT build a proper kernel as distributed :( Actually I didn't know that. That's really sad if you ask me. Do you have any support contract with RH? >> In addition it runs contra to the issues I mentioned above. Loading a >> new module is fine - but a recompile of the core kernel is not a pleasent option. > > Here I am, talking to myself again :( > As I feared, the source from RH will not compile - even before I apply the openswan patch. I found this guide that says you can get a copy of the config your kernel was made with in the /usr/src/linux/configs/ directory. You are supposed to copy that to /usr/src/linux/.config and use that as a starting point for your modifications. https://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/ch-custom-kernel.html However, if as you said the distributed source is known not to compile this is all a waste of time :( > I'm about to move this issue to the routers - and off my servers. This is simply not worth it for our purpose. I ignored the little "hint" that the server had to be connected directly to the internet (outside the NAT) but since our NAT and firewall is one and the same box, this is simply not possible. If you can do a router-router VPN or router-server VPN w/o going through a firewall or NAT that would be your best shot. I think that is what you are talking about, but maybe not.. > *sniff* - it's not fun to be on an old kernel. Not fun at all. > > Thanks for your help Nick! I really appreachiate it. > >> But thanks for the links - I got more stuff to read now. Like I didn't have enough already :( > > Now it's back to good old Cisco IOS and PIX. I'd be interested in learning how you get that setup.. if you are willing/able to share some of it. I have a CCNA, but that training doesn't include anything related to VPNs on Cisco equipment. > Best Regards > Peter Larsen > Well I guess we gave it the old-college-try anyway. Good luck! Nick Davis From paulbain at pobox.com Tue Jun 7 21:08:15 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Tue Jun 7 21:37:07 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Message-ID: <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> Nick Davis wrote: > On Tue, June 7, 2005 18:09, Peter Larsen said: > >>Peter Larsen wrote: >> >>>Nick Davis wrote: >> >>>While I don't hesitate on my home systems to rebuild the >>kernel - I'm pondering my >> options here. As you most likely already know, the source >>that RedHat distributes >>will NOT build a proper kernel as distributed :( > > Actually I didn't know that. That's really sad if you >ask me. Do you have any support > contract with RH? Peter & Nick, About 18 months ago, I was able to compile the kernel on a RH 9 system (_not_ Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)) by downloading and installing a source RPM. I do not recall the URL of the site from which I downloaded the source, but I do not think that it was RedHat.com -- it may have been RPMfind.com or one of the other, similar sites. At that time, I needed to recompile the kernel in order to get a Linux NFS server to use TCP rather than UDP, the default on Linux, and I needed a very recent kernel because, as of 18 months ago, this feature was still new to the kernel. The primary complaint that I have heard regarding RH's kernel, at least on RHEL, is that you cannot simply download the source code from Kernel.org and then compile it. Why? Because such a kernel apparently will not run on a RHEL system. At any rate, that is what I recall having read. IIRC, the only way to compile the kernel on a RHEL system is to download a source RPM. But Peter is suggesting that perhaps even that approach will not work. Is that correct, Peter? >>> In addition it runs contra to the issues I mentioned above. Loading a >>>new module is fine - but a recompile of the core kernel is not a pleasent option. >> >>Here I am, talking to myself again :( >>As I feared, the source from RH will not compile - even before I apply the openswan >>patch. > > I found this guide that says you can get a copy of the config your kernel was made > with in the /usr/src/linux/configs/ directory. You are supposed to copy that to > /usr/src/linux/.config and use that as a starting point for your modifications. > > https://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/ch-custom-kernel.html > > However, if as you said the distributed source is known not to compile this is all a > waste of time :( Sincerely, Paul Bain From matt at babcock.us Tue Jun 7 21:50:04 2005 From: matt at babcock.us (Matt) Date: Tue Jun 7 22:04:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> Message-ID: <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> Hello everyone, A quick Thunderbird question (1.0.2-1.3.3 (20050513))... I found how to view the full message headers, but if I want to save the full headers or send them to someone else, does anyone know a quick/easy way to do that? Thanks! Matt From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 22:10:20 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 22:10:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> Message-ID: <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Nick Davis wrote: > On Tue, June 7, 2005 18:09, Peter Larsen said: > >>Peter Larsen wrote: >> >>>Nick Davis wrote: >> >>>While I don't hesitate on my home systems to rebuild the kernel - I'm pondering my >>>options here. As you most likely already know, the source that RedHat distributes >>>will NOT build a proper kernel as distributed :( > > Actually I didn't know that. That's really sad if you ask me. Do you have any support > contract with RH? http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/news.html It's old news (go to the end - the notes section). Not sure excatly what's missing - I've never payed too much attention to the details. I just know I've NEVER been able to directly compile a working kernel directly from the RedHat RPMS. I've used to to handle TAR ball compilations, but never to successfully build a copy of the kernel. > I found this guide that says you can get a copy of the config your kernel was made > with in the /usr/src/linux/configs/ directory. You are supposed to copy that to > /usr/src/linux/.config and use that as a starting point for your modifications. Yeah, I knew that - or rather saw that. What I *didn't know* was that (now) I'm supposed to run 'make oldconfig' before I run 'make dep'. That actually worked - bzImage and wmimage both completed. Still need to do more details. It's been really long since I did kernel tweaking. Last time was around RH6.2 - 2.0 kernel (I think). Btw. my first kernel was 0.99b or something - ON FLOPPIES :) I tell ya - when the 15th floppy has READ error on it after an almost full install, you go crazy! > https://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/ch-custom-kernel.html > > However, if as you said the distributed source is known not to compile this is all a > waste of time :( Well - I've only been "here" once before, but the boot never succeeded. I'm still not sure it's the right way forward - I hate using customized kernels for something that needs to be stable (it's a connection to a production system). >>I'm about to move this issue to the routers - and off my servers. This is simply not >>worth it for our purpose. I ignored the little "hint" that the server had to be >>connected directly to the internet (outside the NAT) but since our NAT and firewall >>is one and the same box, this is simply not possible. > > If you can do a router-router VPN or router-server VPN w/o going through a firewall or > NAT that would be your best shot. I think that is what you are talking about, but > maybe not.. Right - or move the servers ;) That's what I told my network guy today. We're down to the last resort ... >>Now it's back to good old Cisco IOS and PIX. > > I'd be interested in learning how you get that setup.. if you are willing/able to > share some of it. I have a CCNA, but that training doesn't include anything related to > VPNs on Cisco equipment. Sure - one router/wall is not a PIX; so I need our network guy to help out. But according to my PIX manual, it's fairly straight forward using "crypto" commands. But I'll return. If this kernel really works - I might not go there; but as I said I hesitate altering the RedHat controlled kernel. Best Regards Peter Larsen From eric at trueblade.com Tue Jun 7 21:59:35 2005 From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric V. Smith) Date: Tue Jun 7 22:21:25 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <42A65107.6050406@trueblade.com> Dan Arico wrote: > Lists can be sorted in Python quite easily. > > If x=[12,24,3,5,78] > > x.sort() > > sorts the list. > > My question is this: > > x=[(x,y,z),(a,c,b),(s,t,v)] > > what's the syntax to sort the list by the second element of each tuple? Although it's not the most efficient way to do it, you can use the optional argument to sort(): >>> x=[('a','z','c'),('b','a','d'),('c','m','e')] >>> x.sort(lambda a,b:cmp(a[1],b[1])) >>> x [('b', 'a', 'd'), ('c', 'm', 'e'), ('a', 'z', 'c')] pass in a function that compares 2 elements of the list. The most efficient and recommended way to do this with large amounts of data is the "decorate-sort-undecorate" (DSU) idiom. Check out the Python Cookbook, 2nd Edition, recipe 5.2. Eric. From ms_lugmail at verizon.net Tue Jun 7 21:34:02 2005 From: ms_lugmail at verizon.net (Matt Shervey) Date: Tue Jun 7 22:34:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:55:07 -0400 Dan Arico wrote: > Lists can be sorted in Python quite easily. > > what's the syntax to sort the list by the second element of each tuple? this seemed to do the trick (based on a small list of tuples of 3 numbers): a=[(1,9,2),(3,1,4),(7,3,1),(5,8,3)] def sorter(x,y): return x[1]-y[1] a.sort(sorter) print a output looked like: [(3, 1, 4), (7, 3, 1), (5, 8, 3), (1, 9, 2)] hth > > Dan Arico > > -- > One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, > One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, > In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From me at nfnti.com Tue Jun 7 22:22:57 2005 From: me at nfnti.com (nfnti) Date: Tue Jun 7 23:03:07 2005 Subject: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> Message-ID: <42A65681.6020901@nfnti.com> View > Message Source That should give you the same info and allow you to c&p it to wherever you want. Matt wrote: > Hello everyone, > > A quick Thunderbird question (1.0.2-1.3.3 (20050513))... > > I found how to view the full message headers, but if I want to save the > full headers or send them to someone else, does anyone know a quick/easy > way to do that? > > Thanks! > Matt > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From itismike at hotmail.com Tue Jun 7 23:04:52 2005 From: itismike at hotmail.com (Michael Hughes) Date: Tue Jun 7 23:04:57 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <42A66054.3000506@hotmail.com> Hey guys. I'm not sure why you're having difficulties building a new kernel. Here's how I did it last semester on a Dell 2.4 Ghz w/ 1 Gig of ram, RehHat 9, installed with all packages. There was a little confusion as to which boot loader I was using, so there are directions included here for both GRUB and LILO. Here it is, verbatim: Title: Problem Diagnosis and Kernel Purpose: Learn Kernel building Environment: RedHat9 Actions: cd /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8 cp configs/kernel-2.4.20-i686.config .config make mrproper make xconfig & [gui starts] (click "load config from file"; enter '.config' in filename box) [don't skip this step!] (added video support under multimedia section) (saved changes) make dep make clean make bzImage make modules make modules_install cp /usr/src/linux-2.4.20-8/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-9 [that's all one line] mkinitrd /boot/initrd-2.4.20-9.img 2.4.20-8custom (reboot) Results: LILO loaded the original kernel (linux-2.4.20-8) as expected. Assessment: It's useful to know which bootloader you're using. ...So, I found the lilo.conf file in /etc/ by: 'find / -name 'lilo.conf' -print From what I remember reading in the Grub.conf: "there is no need to run 'grub' after modifying this file', I deduced that it IS necessary to run 'lilo' after making similar changes to lilo. I typed 'lilo' and lilo automatically added the new kernel to the boot options. After booting, I used 'uname -a' to find which kernel had booted ad it reported that "linux-2.4.20-8custom" was loaded correctly. References: Appendix A of _The Linux Bible_ HTH, Mike -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/6/2005 From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Tue Jun 7 23:22:20 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Tue Jun 7 23:22:53 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A66054.3000506@hotmail.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A66054.3000506@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <42A6646C.3040609@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Michael Hughes wrote: > Hey guys. I'm not sure why you're having difficulties building a new > kernel. Here's how I did it last semester on a Dell 2.4 Ghz w/ 1 Gig of > ram, RehHat 9, installed with all packages. There was a little > confusion as to which boot loader I was using, so there are directions > included here for both GRUB and LILO. Here it is, verbatim: Right - but that would not produce the same kernel as currently being used. You must have the excat same settings, compile, header files etc. for it to work. The secret lies in the configuration file and environmental settings - if we assume that RedHat did not cheat by distributing different source-files from those they used. Best Regards Peter Larsen From matt at babcock.us Tue Jun 7 23:29:19 2005 From: matt at babcock.us (Matt) Date: Tue Jun 7 23:23:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <42A65681.6020901@nfnti.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> <42A65681.6020901@nfnti.com> Message-ID: <42A6660F.9060707@babcock.us> That was exactly what I was looking for, but I didn't see it when I looked. All I saw at the time was View > Headers > All. THANK YOU! nfnti wrote: >View > Message Source > >That should give you the same info and allow you to c&p it to wherever >you want. > >Matt wrote: > > >>Hello everyone, >> >>A quick Thunderbird question (1.0.2-1.3.3 (20050513))... >> >>I found how to view the full message headers, but if I want to save the >>full headers or send them to someone else, does anyone know a quick/easy >>way to do that? >> >>Thanks! >>Matt >>_______________________________________________ >>novalug mailing list >>novalug@tux.org >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> >> > > > From itismike at hotmail.com Tue Jun 7 22:37:38 2005 From: itismike at hotmail.com (Michael Hughes) Date: Tue Jun 7 23:37:51 2005 Subject: [Fwd: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird] Message-ID: <42A659F2.8070205@hotmail.com> Yeah, like this: (I just expanded the header and chose 'forward'. I thought it would have worked with reply, but it didn't.) Mike -------- Original Message -------- From: - Tue Jun 07 22:18:34 2005 X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 7AF789A6-FDEA-47B8-8D65-C7956F0ABF4D X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Message-Status: n X-SID-PRA: novalug-bounces@tux.org X-SID-Result: Pass X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jE44p8pQYdSKARkNxYbHOycb/gIjDAYtJI= Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135]) by mc7-f16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:06:35 -0700 Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j58242Xf011138; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:05:23 -0400 Received: from circe.tux.org (circe [209.190.247.151]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5823wTM011082 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:03:59 -0400 Received: from localhost (circe [127.0.0.1]) by circe.tux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4E49D01 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from circe.tux.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (circe [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28867-07 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgateway60.your-site.com (mail-relay3.your-site.com [38.117.195.3]) by circe.tux.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0413A9CF0 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx54.your-site.com (unknown [10.0.10.54]) by mailgateway60.your-site.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2CA858DD for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [4.249.57.4] (dialup-4.249.57.4.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.57.4]) by mx54.your-site.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8319985B5C for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:50:04 -0400 From: Matt User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2-1.3.3 (X11/20050513) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: novalug@tux.org References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tux.org X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (gwyn.tux.org [0.0.0.0]); Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:05:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:19:21 by milter-greylist-1.6 (gwyn.tux.org [199.184.165.135]); Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:03:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird X-BeenThere: novalug@tux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Washington DC Area Linux Users Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: novalug-bounces@tux.org Errors-To: novalug-bounces@tux.org Return-Path: novalug-bounces@tux.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2005 02:06:35.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2D47430:01C56BCE] Hello everyone, A quick Thunderbird question (1.0.2-1.3.3 (20050513))... I found how to view the full message headers, but if I want to save the full headers or send them to someone else, does anyone know a quick/easy way to do that? Thanks! Matt _______________________________________________ novalug mailing list novalug@tux.org http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/6/2005 From mwehmeyer at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 21:56:41 2005 From: mwehmeyer at gmail.com (Marc Wehmeyer) Date: Wed Jun 8 00:43:30 2005 Subject: [novalug] Viewing links from Evolution In-Reply-To: <1118036013.13029.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118036013.13029.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <92a1d7520506071856ac20290@mail.gmail.com> Open up a console as the user you run Evolution under and type these lines: gconftool-2 --set /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command -t string 'firefox %s' gconftool-2 --set /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/https/command -t string 'firefox %s' There's an easier way to do it under Gnome (I use kde so the above is the ticket) but I'll let you figure that out on your own. =) Marc On 6/6/05, Charles M Howe wrote: > I am now reading my mail using Evolution (nothing new) using Verizon DSL > as opposed to dialup (new). When I click on a link it is boxed (black > line above and below and at ends) and a legend appears at the bottom of > the page saying, "Click here to open http:// whatever". But it doesn't > display the site. It would have when I was using dialup. What's > happening? > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From djr1952 at hotpop.com Wed Jun 8 04:34:24 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Wed Jun 8 05:34:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <42A6646C.3040609@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A66054.3000506@hotmail.com> <42A6646C.3040609@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <1118219664.29856.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 23:22 -0400, Peter Larsen wrote: > Right - but that would not produce the same kernel as currently being > used. You must have the excat same settings, compile, header files etc. > for it to work. The secret lies in the configuration file and > environmental settings - if we assume that RedHat did not cheat by > distributing different source-files from those they used. > > Best Regards > Peter Larsen I would find it hard to believe that Red Hat would "cheat" by distributing different source-files from those they used. As such a case would always come out in short order and cost far more in goodwill alone then any possible short term profit. Now as to where a copy of the configuration file used when compiling the installed kernel when compiled is stored: /boot/config-* {where * matches the version of the kernel} They any most other distributions have been storing a copy of the matching ".config" like this for sometime now. The instruction pointed to by the link a few messages ago are fairly complete: with only a few ERROR and/or missing steps in the first few pages. One other thing I'd recommend is going to: and reading the "Software Requirements" section. You can use the given version tests to get an idea as to what's installed, although you may require a few other packages not listed. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Wed Jun 8 06:34:28 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Wed Jun 8 07:01:13 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506080634.28897.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Beartooth wrote: > I now have four machines, each with an ethernet cable into a > four-port hub behind a wired router, and all connect. But what will I > do when I get one (or possibly two) more machines? If I plug one into > a port on the router (which is connected presently only to my cable > modem and the hub), will that work all right? Should work fine. A hub is nothing more than a device for turning one port into several ports, so the ports on it are functionally equivalent to the ports on the next upstream device, in this case your router. (Actually, there is one potential difference. If the next upstream device treats its built-in ports like a switch, rather than a hub, then each port will only see traffic meant for it, rather than for any port on the device. That is more efficient, as it doesn't have to deal with Ethernet "collisions". These are what happens when two ports try to "talk" at the same time. They hear each other and then shut up for a small amount of time, random for each. This is why, if you need much more capacity, it might be better to go get a larger switch instead of a larger hub.) -Dave From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Wed Jun 8 06:36:10 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Wed Jun 8 07:02:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] Postfix and the FROM: header In-Reply-To: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> References: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> Message-ID: <200506080636.10944.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Nick Danger wrote: > Most mail leaves the servers (or my servers anyway) with a line like > FROM: Nick Danger > > The Ubuntu and now the CentOS that I installed the new Postfix on, > all send this > FROM: danger@server.sub.dom.tld (Nick Danger) > > Is this some new format for the From id? Nope. These are the two standards, which have been around for a very long time. I forget where/why they were each defined, but they're both legit. -Dave From palmer at patriot.net Wed Jun 8 05:50:45 2005 From: palmer at patriot.net (Cliff Palmer) Date: Wed Jun 8 07:42:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] DNS debug/trace In-Reply-To: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> References: <24860.192.86.228.67.1118057809.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Message-ID: <1118224245.4280.9.camel@gl4d1ml1nux> I'm trying to solve a set of problems with my dns server and I wonder if there is a way to have it log debug trace information in a file so I can see what is happening. Among the problems are incorrect answers (looking to the outside world when it is the authority for the name) and ignoring cache (successive queries take longer to resolve even though it is supposed to cache). What I'm hoping for is something like this: 00/99/99 at 99:99:99.9999 request from 999.999.999.999 for xxxxxxxx.xxx looking in cache....xxxxxxxxx.xxx found at 999.999.999.999 reply sent 00/99/99 at 99:99:99.9999 00/99/99 at 99:99:99.9999 request from 999.999.999.999 for xxxxxxxx.xxx looking in cache....not found - redirecting to 999.999.999.999 reply sent 00/99/99 at 99:99:99.9999 and so on Any help appreciated From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Wed Jun 8 11:20:05 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Wed Jun 8 11:20:29 2005 Subject: [novalug] ip route problems with IPSEC In-Reply-To: <1118219664.29856.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6538C.8060907@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A66054.3000506@hotmail.com> <42A6646C.3040609@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <1118219664.29856.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42A70CA5.5090603@famlarsen.homelinux.com> donjr wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 23:22 -0400, Peter Larsen wrote: > >>Right - but that would not produce the same kernel as currently being >>used. You must have the excat same settings, compile, header files etc. >>for it to work. The secret lies in the configuration file and >>environmental settings - if we assume that RedHat did not cheat by >>distributing different source-files from those they used. >> >>Best Regards >> Peter Larsen > > > I would find it hard to believe that Red Hat would "cheat" by > distributing different source-files from those they used. I'm fully aware of how silly it looks; however this is rather old news as it was obvious when whitebox was launched that the distributed sources wasn't enough to reproduce the RedHat binaries (see the link I posted in a different email). They've come far since then and have managed to get most things working; however it's not a matter of just running the make scripts. > As such a case would always come out in short order and cost far more > in goodwill alone then any possible short term profit. Right; it makes little sense since RedHat was one of the first companies to start profitting from OpenSource - dispite that Micrsoft and other major software vendors told us it wasn't possible. However, when RedHat choose to "protect" the enterprise and special workstation distributions, people have really tried to reproduce the RedHat binaries without too much luck. > Now as to where a copy of the configuration file used when compiling the > installed kernel when compiled is stored: > /boot/config-* {where * matches the version of the kernel} :) I've made kernels before. It's not only an issue if you can compile them, but if they produce the same result binary after compilation. It used to be, that Redhat didn't have the .config for each distribution - they got those now and I must say that's a big improvement. I'm sure some of my bad experiences is not knowing what configuration parameters to set. I've managed to get the kernel compiled yesterday. It's been a few years since I last compiled a kernel, and the "make oldconfig" as a mandatory step is new to me. It fixed the major problems - except for a bunch of warnings the kernel was build and I'll proceed to create the boot image and do a try boot. Then comes the fun part of patching the kernel (argh!). > They any most other distributions have been storing a copy of the > matching ".config" like this for sometime now. My last major kernel rebuild phase was just around the 2.0 release of the kernel. Since then I decided to avoid it and use the "vanilla" kernel and just loadable modules. So far I've been very successful in that approach. However, SOMEONE thought taking semi-production servers and moving them out of my network to a offsite place was a good idea - and I'm now faced with creating a VPN like tunnel so we can continue to use them. So I'm faced with a problem I couldn't predict - our kernel is simply too old to support this "fun stuff" :( > The instruction pointed to by the link a few messages ago are fairly > complete: > > with only a few ERROR and/or missing steps in the first few pages. > > One other thing I'd recommend is going to: > and reading > the "Software Requirements" section. You can use the given version > tests to get an idea as to what's installed, although you may require a > few other packages not listed. Right - lots of information and I've done those and more (even tampering with the Makefiles). But when the compile fails with missing symbols and general code errors like size imcompatabilites, those make parameters doesn't get me closer to a solution. But since I have the right (??) .config file I'm hoping things are going to work out for the better. Best Regards Peter Larsen (old RedHat Junkie) From linuxjay at stickdog.com Wed Jun 8 11:42:32 2005 From: linuxjay at stickdog.com (linuxjay@stickdog.com) Date: Wed Jun 8 12:07:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] Change of email address Message-ID: <1118245352.42a711e8a7b7b@webmail.stickdog.com> To all: I now have my new email server online. Effective immediately, my new email address is: jhart@kevla.org I will be unsubscribing this email address shortly from these lists. New email address already subscribed. Just a heads up... Jay Hart ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Wed Jun 8 13:57:16 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Wed Jun 8 13:57:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: <200506080634.28897.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Dave Aronson wrote: > Should work fine. A hub is nothing more than a device for turning > one port into several ports, so the ports on it are functionally > equivalent to the ports on the next upstream device, in this case > your router. > > (Actually, there is one potential difference. If the next upstream > device treats its built-in ports like a switch, rather than a hub, > then each port will only see traffic meant for it, rather than for > any port on the device. That is more efficient, as it doesn't have > to deal with Ethernet "collisions". These are what happens when two > ports try to "talk" at the same time. They hear each other and then > shut up for a small amount of time, random for each. This is why, > if you need much more capacity, it might be better to go get a > larger switch instead of a larger hub.) Errr...Duhhh... switch vs. hub?? I thought they were American vs. British names for the same thing. How do you tell? The only switch I have that I know of is a KVM switch -- with four ports and only three in use, fortunately. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From pnuwayser at cox.net Wed Jun 8 13:31:07 2005 From: pnuwayser at cox.net (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Wed Jun 8 14:00:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 21:34 -0400, Matt Shervey wrote: > On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:55:07 -0400 > Dan Arico wrote: > > > Lists can be sorted in Python quite easily. > > > > what's the syntax to sort the list by the second element of each tuple? > > this seemed to do the trick (based on a small list of tuples of 3 > numbers): > > a=[(1,9,2),(3,1,4),(7,3,1),(5,8,3)] > > def sorter(x,y): > return x[1]-y[1] > > a.sort(sorter) > > print a > > output looked like: > [(3, 1, 4), (7, 3, 1), (5, 8, 3), (1, 9, 2)] Matt, would you (or somebody) mind breaking this down into baby steps? I stared at the def block but just couldn't grok. Thanks, Pete From pnuwayser at cox.net Wed Jun 8 13:26:27 2005 From: pnuwayser at cox.net (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Wed Jun 8 14:57:11 2005 Subject: [novalug] Postfix and the FROM: header In-Reply-To: <200506080636.10944.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> References: <42A5DE01.4090807@hackermonkey.com> <200506080636.10944.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: <1118251587.10088.24.camel@ratamacue.site> On Wed, 2005-06-08 at 06:36 -0400, Dave Aronson wrote: > Nick Danger wrote: > > > Most mail leaves the servers (or my servers anyway) with a line like > > FROM: Nick Danger > > > > The Ubuntu and now the CentOS that I installed the new Postfix on, > > all send this > > FROM: danger@server.sub.dom.tld (Nick Danger) > > > > Is this some new format for the From id? > > Nope. These are the two standards, which have been around for a very > long time. I forget where/why they were each defined, but they're both > legit. I'm guessing RFCs 2821 and 2822. :) Pete From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 17:51:32 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Wed Jun 8 18:18:22 2005 Subject: [novalug] iptables--is this sufficient protection? Message-ID: <20050608215132.16322.qmail@web61016.mail.yahoo.com> Given that... -eth0 is the "outside" NIC with a routable IP -the box doesn't offer ANY services to the outside, it only acts as a NAT from inside to out. ...is the following iptables script sufficient from a security standpoint in blocking connections from outside? iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -m state --state NEW,INVALID -j DROP iptables -A FORWARD -i eth0 -m state --state NEW,INVALID -j DROP -Ben __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Wed Jun 8 19:36:36 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Wed Jun 8 19:36:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> Message-ID: <200506081936.36024.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Pete Nuwayser wrote: > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 21:34 -0400, Matt Shervey wrote: ... > > def sorter(x,y): > > return x[1]-y[1] > > > > a.sort(sorter) ... > Matt, would you (or somebody) mind breaking this down into baby > steps? I stared at the def block but just couldn't grok. I will assume first that you are familiar with object-oriented programming, at least insofar as calling a method on an object. If not, save the below for later and I'll explain that stuff first. The Python call "someList.sort()" returns a copy of the list, sorted using the default comparison routine for whatever sort of items are being compared. So far pretty obvious. However, the sort method is overloaded. "someList.sort (comparisonFunction)" will use comparisonFunction to compare the elements. comparisonFunction should accept two arguments, and return a positive number if the first is considered "larger", a negative number if the second is considered "larger", and 0 if they are considered equal. First, Matt defined such a function, which will act on tuples that contain at least two numbers. (Or, to be excruciatingly accurate, at least two items and the second one is a number.) Then, he has used that function, to sort the list a. The result is the list sorted such that tuples are in increasing order according to their second elements. -Dave From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Wed Jun 8 19:23:55 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Wed Jun 8 19:50:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506081923.55473.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Beartooth wrote: > Errr...Duhhh... switch vs. hub?? I thought they were American > vs. British names for the same thing. Nope. > How do you tell? By what the maker advertises it as. For instance, you often see things like "Broadband Router with Built-In 4-Port Switch" or "DSL Modem with Firewall and Built-In 3-Port Hub". > The only switch I have that I know of is a KVM switch -- with > four ports and only three in use, fortunately. Uh, no. This is "switch" in a very specific sense, not just any old switch, like the thing you turn lights on with or smack unruly students' bums with. Long story short, the difference is that a switch will send to each port, only the traffic meant for the device attached to that port. A hub, by contrast, sends all traffic it sees, to all ports, resulting in a lot more "collisions". Switches are more expensive, but if your network usage is such that collisions will seriously eat into your effective throughput (not true for most folks), they're quite worthwhile. -Dave From juliac at patriot.net Wed Jun 8 21:00:42 2005 From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson) Date: Wed Jun 8 20:57:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] Help with Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> References: <42A3DEBD.2070001@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32833.66.171.38.35.1118069159.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A469C8.20105@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32882.66.171.38.35.1118079642.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A4CE1D.8000503@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A4E923.8040308@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A5BA39.6040405@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32974.66.171.38.35.1118161685.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A5F1F7.3000205@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <33102.66.171.38.35.1118176508.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A6136A.3020807@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <42A61B06.2030407@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <32812.66.171.38.35.1118190477.squirrel@66.171.38.35> <42A644FF.1060205@pobox.com> <42A64ECC.4@babcock.us> Message-ID: <42A794BA.1020902@patriot.net> Matt wrote: > Hello everyone, > > A quick Thunderbird question (1.0.2-1.3.3 (20050513))... > > I found how to view the full message headers, but if I want to save the > full headers or send them to someone else, does anyone know a quick/easy > way to do that? Set to view full headers (View -> Headers -> All) and then forward the message. (I also have my preferences set to always use plain text (vs. HTML) and to forward inline, not as an attachment; that may or may not be necessary for this to work.) View -> Message Source will also display them, and you can cut & paste from there. As an aside, I recently ran across an extension called "View Headers Toggle Button 1.5.1" which puts an icon on the toolbar for switching between full and minimal headers. Hopefully it will help keep me from printing with full headers on so much -- people who have to have their emails printed out just don't want to see all that stuff. -- Julia From mstone at mathom.us Wed Jun 8 20:27:41 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Wed Jun 8 21:27:45 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: <200506081923.55473.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> References: <200506081923.55473.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: <20050609002741.GD19513@mathom.us> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 07:23:55PM -0400, Dave Aronson wrote: >By what the maker advertises it as. Actually, that's not reliable these days. Many things that say "hub" are really half-duplex switches; the major difference is how they're marketed. The cost of a little low-performance switch is so low that there's not much point in making a hub. This is a problem if you're actually trying to find a hub. :) Mike Stone From jays at panix.com Wed Jun 8 21:19:48 2005 From: jays at panix.com (jays@panix.com) Date: Wed Jun 8 21:36:31 2005 Subject: [novalug] 10:00 am Friday 10 June 2005 the Committee on Technology in Government of the New York City Council will meet to consider Untrammeled Net Access for All Message-ID: <200506090119.j591Jmu06679@panix5.panix.com> The Committe on Technology in Government of the New York City Council will have an open public meeting on Bringing Broadband Net Access To All at 10 am Friday 10 June 2005 in The Committee Room, City Hall, New York City See below for more on this important meeting, which free software users, authors, and advocates should attend. Jay Sulzberger Corresponding Secretary LXNY LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization. http://www.lxny.org Note from Jay Sulzberger: Free Software is first a political movement. Our success has been, in part, enabled by the easy availability of low cost untrammeled computers and low cost untrammeled Net access. If we are to bring free software to those who most need free software, we must make available to all low cost untrammeled Net access. Please come to this meeting and let us work to make sure that whatever system is put in place, whether "free market", "socialist", or "mixed", it is really low cost and really untrammeled. The stakes are high, and our voices will count. But we must show up and we must listen and we must speak and work for both freedom and efficiency. Below please find two calls to attend the Committee on Technology in Government meeting on Friday 10 June 2005. The first call is from Dave Burstein and is not an official government call. The second is from Bruce Lai, and is the official call to attend from the CTG, chaired by Gale Brewer, New York City Council member. Jay Sulzberger member LXNY member NYFU http://www.lxny.org http://www.nyfairuse.org
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 06:31:09 -0400 From: Dave Burstein Subject: New York City considering muni and more Folks: The New York City Council on Friday is doing a major hearing on a bill that is squarely aimed at a muni build. I wrote it below a little optimistically - they could use all the support they can get, including people to testify. If that's practical for you, contact Bruce Lai to be added to the speaker list. Dave Burstein "We're going to bring affordable broadband to all 8 million New Yorkers, and do it quickly. We're not going to fail on this." A New York politician, who may have the courage to make the statement true The New York City Council intends action, not just talk. Ten minutes' walk from the new Verizon headquarters, I'll be testifying Friday to a group that's darn serious about determining "how affordable broadband access can be made available to all New York City residents." A million New Yorkers still can't get DSL, and a million children in the city live in families for whom $35/month is unaffordable. Philadelphia is ready to prove they can deliver municipal wireless for $15/month or less, which is what DSL costs in much of the world. There's an alternative to a municipal build, however. I'll urge instead that Verizon, Time Warner or another commercial outfit lead the way, with direct municipal investment only if required. Imagine if New York put out an RFP for $15/month broadband to 8 million people, backed up with a full 50 Meg + fiber build to two million homes and offices. Internet delivery around the world would rapidly change; London, Los Angeles, Chicago and Rome would demand similar once they saw it works. So would Atlanta, San Antonio, and Denver. Verizon would have little choice but to quickly discover affordable broadband for all is quite practical - the alternative to bidding would be losing a million customers and stranding billions in investment. Similar for Time Warner, and don't be surprised if a dozen bids come in. The Brits considered similar, and BT decided to move quickly to 99.6% coverage to head off government action. Almost certainly, New York could get the network built and services delivered by an efficient private company. Erkki Liikanen, European Union Commissioner, recommended a similar strategy, of setting a goal (universal coverage) and soliciting bids. The results have been remarkable, including service in some truly hard to reach areas at a fraction of the suggested cost. 75 million people in Andhra Pradesh are getting fiber to every village. Indian multinational Tata bid a fraction of the telco's projected cost and won that contract. Results please, not rhetoric. Come to the open hearing, say hello to the round fellow with a beard, and consider joining us afterwards for the best French pastry and sandwiches in New York, Financier. If you'd like to speak, email me for who you should contact in advance. Friday, June 10th, 10 AM, Committee Room, City Hall, New York City.
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:53:50 -0400 From: Bruce Lai < ... /> On April 20, 2005, the Committee introduced legislation (http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/textfiles/Int%200625-2005.htm) to create a "a temporary task force to study how affordable broadband access can be made available to all New York City residents, nonprofit organizations and businesses." This is what the Council Member Gale Brewer, Chair of the Committee and prime sponsor of Int. No. 625, had to say about the legislation: "Ensuring the availability of affordable broadband is about more than providing access to essential Internet tools like job resources, online banking and continued job training and education," said Council Member Brewer, chair of the City Council's Technology in Government Committee. "It is obvious that within the next several years those that do not have access to the new generation of broadband-driven communications technologies, such as Internet telephony (VOIP), telemedicine and telecommuting will be at a distinct disadvantage. We need to ensure that the city has the infrastructure to provide our small businesses, non-profits and low-income residents with the tools they will need to compete and flourish." <> Below are links to some articles on the legislation: * http://www.muniwireless.com/archives/000656.html * http://www.corante.com/newyork/archives/2005/04/22/new_yorks_broadband_task_force.php The current plan is to hold a hearing on Int. No. 625 on Friday, June 10, 2005 at 10 AM in the Committee Room, City Hall. -- On Tuesday, June 21, 2005 at 1 PM, Committee Room, City Hall, the Committee will hold an oversight hearing on the development of the New York City information technology (IT) industry. More details on this hearing to come. -- Recently, for your information ... On Tuesday, April 19, 2005 at 1 PM in the Committee Room, City Hall, the Committee held an oversight entitled Review of the Integrated Human Services Project: Update and Future Plans. At the hearing, the Committee received an update on the progress of the system from the Mayor's Office and the Department of Information Technology and Telecommunications. The City is moving forward to two pilots projects; the first one slated for release at the end of 2005 and the second one for 2006. The Committee also heard testimony from representatives of the nonprofit sector about the necessity of the system and the importance of City government working with them on this project. Here is a link to the briefing paper: http://www.nyccouncil.info/issues/report_act.cfm?mtfile=T2005%2D0491. If anyone would like copies of testimony from this hearing, please contact me. Also ... The City of Philadelphia recently released its Wireless Philadelphia business plan. If you have not read it yet, below are links to it as well as the associated Request for Proposal to build their citywide wireless broadband network. * http://www.phila.gov/wireless/pdfs/Wireless-Phila-Business-Plan-040305-1245pm.pdf * http://www.phila.gov/wireless/pdfs/WP RFP 4-5-05 rev v4-CLEAN.pdf Here's what Council Member Brewer has to say about the City of Philadelphia's wireless initiative: "New York City has much to learn from the 'Wireless Philadelphia' initiative," Council Member Brewer said. "Our challenges are different and our process will likely yield a different solution. But, Philadelphia had the courage and foresight to tackle the most difficult issues surrounding telecommunications, and we must do the same. We must balance New Yorkers' right to the benefits that broadband access brings with responsible telecommunications growth and policy." ***** The following is an event you may be interested in attending. Building the Broadband Economy, June 13-14, New York City "Building the Broadband Economy" is the 2005 edition of the Intelligent Community Forum's annual conference and awards program. It explores how cities and town are coping with the challenges of a globalizing world and building vibrant local economies based on broadband and information technology. It brings an audience of leaders from business, government and the nonprofit sector to New York City to explore what it takes to compete in the fast-emerging "broadband economy," how broadband is changing our communities, and who will be the winners and losers of the Digital Age. Registration includes the Intelligent Community Awards of 2005. Produced in association with the Institute for Technology & Enterprise at Polytechnic University. For more information, go to the following link: * http://www.intelligentcommunity.org/html/building_broadband.html Note: Council Member Gale Brewer will be delivering a keynote address at this conference. ***** About the New York City Council's Committee on Technology in Government The primary goals of the Committee on Technology in Government are (1) to expand digital equality by increasing access to broadband in underserved communities of New York City (2) to increase the strategic use of technology in government, thereby, increasing efficiency in government and enhancing the quality of public services, and (3) to promote the openness and transparency of government by making sure that public information is accessible to every New York City resident. Through its ability to hold oversight hearings over City agencies and introduce and hear legislation, the Committee on Technology in Government works to achieve its goals in partnership with the private, public and nonprofit sectors. More information about the Committee and the Chair of the Committee, Council Member Gale A. Brewer, can be found at the following link: http://nyccouncil.info/issues/committee.cfm?committee_id=106<sbdkey=5121 . All Committee briefing papers from the current session (beginning in January 2004) are also available at this link. ***** If you know of people who would be interested in the Committee on Technology in Government's activities, please feel free to forward this e-mail to them. If you know of anyone who would like to receive these e-mails, just have them e-mail me, and I will be put them on the list. Finally, feel free to post this information on any listserve you may belong to or on any website you are affiliated with. Thank you. I look forward to seeing you at one of our hearings. Regards, Bruce Lai -- Bruce Lai Legislative Policy Analyst, Committee on Technology in Government New York City Council 250 Broadway, 14th Floor New York, NY 10007 Work: 212.788.9109 Fax: 212.788.9168 E-mail: bruce.lai@council.nyc.ny.us
From cjgraham at tachegroup.com Wed Jun 8 21:32:46 2005 From: cjgraham at tachegroup.com (Christopher Graham) Date: Wed Jun 8 21:59:28 2005 Subject: [novalug] NVidia PCI-X and Linux Message-ID: I am about to spec some NVidia PCI-X cards, and was wondering if anyone has tried them in Linux, particularly Fedora? Either the GeForce 6 series or the Quadro are on the list. From ms_lugmail at verizon.net Wed Jun 8 21:29:41 2005 From: ms_lugmail at verizon.net (Matt Shervey) Date: Wed Jun 8 22:29:37 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> Message-ID: <20050608212941.36614c91.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:31:07 -0400 Pete Nuwayser wrote: > > def sorter(x,y): > > return x[1]-y[1] > > > > a.sort(sorter) > Matt, would you (or somebody) mind breaking this down into baby steps? > I stared at the def block but just couldn't grok. > (I sent this from the wrong address earlier, sorry for any dups) I'll add some comments to try to help clear it up :) a=[(1,9,2),(3,1,4),(7,3,1),(5,8,3)] # sorter() is just a function, so it could be named anything. This # function takes 2 args (the values that need to be compared in # order to sort the list def sorter(x,y): # all this next line does is find the difference between the 2nd element # in each tuple. From what I understand, all it's really checking for is # if it's positive, 0, or negative (>,0,<), and use that information to # order the list return x[1]-y[1] # here, the sort() function calls the sorter() function defined above, and # uses those comparisons to reorder the list. It essentially has to compare # as many elements as is needs to to determine where they go in the list a.sort(sorter) As already mentioned in another post, you can use a lambda function to do the same thing, but I've always had a hard time understanding them (as simple as they are), and try to avoid using such abstract concepts when writing examples. Because of this, you could also do: a.sort(lambda x,y:x[1]-y[1]) To acheive the same result. In case that wasn't very helpful, I've modified the original code with some (possibly helpful) debugging stuff. Now it prints out the args & the difference between them: def sorter(x,y): print x, y, print x[1]-y[1] return x[1]-y[1] # This is the verbose output of the above code (with some more comments): # this is the original list: [(1, 9, 2), (3, 1, 4), (7, 3, 1), (5, 8, 3)] (3, 1, 4) (1, 9, 2) -8 # 1-9=-8, 2nd tuple is larger, sort() puts at end (7, 3, 1) (3, 1, 4) 2 # 3-1=2, 2nd tuple is smaller, sort() puts at start (7, 3, 1) (1, 9, 2) -6 # It seems to be looking for a value that is (7, 3, 1) (3, 1, 4) 2 # smaller, and a value that is larger for it to put (5, 8, 3) (7, 3, 1) 5 # the current element between. (5, 8, 3) (1, 9, 2) -1 # this is the output: [(3, 1, 4), (7, 3, 1), (5, 8, 3), (1, 9, 2)] It appears that the sort function calls the sorter() function 6 times to compare 4 tuples. This is probably where the overhead already mentioned comes in. Anyway, that is all I could gather from sort(). googling for 'python sort' brings up the Python sorting mini-howto, but I don't think the examples in there are much more meaningful, and (at least for me) were harder to grasp. happy sorting! > Thanks, > Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From greg at pryzby.org Wed Jun 8 22:26:19 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Wed Jun 8 22:44:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] don't tell Message-ID: <20050609022618.GD10082@pryzby.org> so, the location of my mailserver has suffered water damage. the good news it has forced me to setup mail at home so although mail has been queueing for a day it should start to flow RSN. the problem is I am not allowed to run a mail server on this machine (terms from provider). I plan on flying under the radar for now until the box is back up and running. if anyone has experience w/ exim under deb, I want to get some antispam stuff running at the server level. thx -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050608/9bff4375/attachment.bin From dtidrow at patriot.net Wed Jun 8 22:36:06 2005 From: dtidrow at patriot.net (Donald Tidrow) Date: Wed Jun 8 22:59:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] NVidia PCI-X and Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Christopher Graham wrote: > I am about to spec some NVidia PCI-X cards, and was wondering if anyone > has tried them in Linux, particularly Fedora? Either the GeForce 6 > series or the Quadro are on the list. > PCI-X, or PCI Express (PCIe)? I wasn't aware of any nvidia boards that used the PCI-X interface. >From what I've heard, they work fine in Linux, as long as you have a fairly recent driver for them and you aren't running a bleeding-edge kernel (as in 2.6.12-rc6) Don --- In October 1997, three computer lab staffers disappeared from the server room while debugging a mysterious router problem. One year later, their packet logs were found... The Blair Switch Project -------------------- | Don Tidrow | | Vis-Sim Geek | -------------------- From mstone at mathom.us Wed Jun 8 22:06:16 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Wed Jun 8 23:06:23 2005 Subject: [novalug] NVidia PCI-X and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050609020616.GE19513@mathom.us> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 09:32:46PM -0400, Christopher Graham wrote: >I am about to spec some NVidia PCI-X cards PCI-X or PCI Express (PCIe)? Mike Stone From pete at gwyn.tux.org Wed Jun 8 23:08:30 2005 From: pete at gwyn.tux.org (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Wed Jun 8 23:08:32 2005 Subject: [novalug] Python Question In-Reply-To: <200506081936.36024.novalug2dave@davearonson.com>; from novalug2dave@davearonson.com on Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 07:36:36PM -0400 References: <200506071955.07728.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <20050607213402.7e37635e.ms_lugmail@verizon.net> <1118251867.10088.28.camel@ratamacue.site> <200506081936.36024.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: <20050608230830.A4610@gwyn.tux.org> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 07:36:36PM -0400, Dave Aronson wrote: > Pete Nuwayser wrote: > > On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 21:34 -0400, Matt Shervey wrote: > ... > > > def sorter(x,y): > > > return x[1]-y[1] > > > > > > a.sort(sorter) > ... > > Matt, would you (or somebody) mind breaking this down into baby > > steps? I stared at the def block but just couldn't grok. > ... > However, the sort method is overloaded. "someList.sort > (comparisonFunction)" will use comparisonFunction to compare the > elements. comparisonFunction should accept two arguments, and return a > positive number if the first is considered "larger", a negative number > if the second is considered "larger", and 0 if they are considered > equal. Beautiful. Thanks! Pete From cjgraham at tachegroup.com Thu Jun 9 03:22:48 2005 From: cjgraham at tachegroup.com (Christopher Graham) Date: Thu Jun 9 03:22:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] NVidia PCI-X and Linux In-Reply-To: <20050609020616.GE19513@mathom.us> References: <20050609020616.GE19513@mathom.us> Message-ID: <43c15de0514bcb95a7a7c93848656817@tachegroup.com> Okay, I am not educated, and meant to state PCI-e. On Jun 8, 2005, at 10:06 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 09:32:46PM -0400, Christopher Graham wrote: >> I am about to spec some NVidia PCI-X cards > > PCI-X or PCI Express (PCIe)? > > Mike Stone > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From nick at mrtizmo.com Thu Jun 9 12:02:58 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Thu Jun 9 12:24:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] NVidia PCI-X and Linux In-Reply-To: <43c15de0514bcb95a7a7c93848656817@tachegroup.com> References: <20050609020616.GE19513@mathom.us> <43c15de0514bcb95a7a7c93848656817@tachegroup.com> Message-ID: <34177.66.171.38.35.1118332978.squirrel@66.171.38.35> According to a friend of mine they do work fine. I just ordered the Nvidia 6600 GT, which is PCI Express x16. http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16814164038 It should be here in the next couple days, so if you really want to wait I'll post a message when I get it up and running. HTH's Nick Davis On Thu, June 9, 2005 3:22, Christopher Graham said: > Okay, I am not educated, and meant to state PCI-e. > > On Jun 8, 2005, at 10:06 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 09:32:46PM -0400, Christopher Graham wrote: >>> I am about to spec some NVidia PCI-X cards >> PCI-X or PCI Express (PCIe)? >> Mike Stone >> _______________________________________________ From ejb at ql.org Thu Jun 9 11:28:33 2005 From: ejb at ql.org (Jay Berkenbilt) Date: Thu Jun 9 12:58:12 2005 Subject: [novalug] don't tell In-Reply-To: <20050609022618.GD10082@pryzby.org> (gregory pryzby's message of "Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:26:19 -0400") References: <20050609022618.GD10082@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <20050609112833.0548378793.qww314159@soup.in.ql.org> gregory pryzby wrote: > if anyone has experience w/ exim under deb, I want to get some > antispam stuff running at the server level. I run exim4 + mailscanner on sarge. The debian mailscanner package is well-maintained and includes good documentation on how to make exim4 and mailscanner interact in debian. If you install mailscanner, you should also install the packages in "recommends" section for best results. With sarge out and volatile.debian.net, hopefully using spamassassin in the stable release will be reasonable over time. There are other packages, of course, but I've never used them. I'd say I get mediocre results with mailscanner: of the several hundred spams I get each day, about 45% are caught on the way in by the server-level mailscanner, about 45% are caught by my own spamassassin with bayes and customization, and the rest usually show up in my unknown sender mailbox or sprinkled in among mailing lists. I don't use the virus scanning features of mailscanner. In principle, it is possible to integrate spamassassin directly with exim, but since mailscanner provides a convenient way to do that and I had been running mailscanner for years before switching to debian anyway, I just went down that path. --Jay -- Jay Berkenbilt From greg at pryzby.org Thu Jun 9 15:04:05 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Thu Jun 9 15:00:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] don't tell In-Reply-To: <20050609112833.0548378793.qww314159@soup.in.ql.org> References: <20050609022618.GD10082@pryzby.org> <20050609112833.0548378793.qww314159@soup.in.ql.org> Message-ID: <20050609190405.GG24298@pryzby.org> thanks... I have exim3 working and need to try 4... I hadn't any luck in the past w/ a smarthost. Maybe it is time to try again. thx On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 11:28:33AM -0400, Jay Berkenbilt wrote: > gregory pryzby wrote: > > > if anyone has experience w/ exim under deb, I want to get some > > antispam stuff running at the server level. > > I run exim4 + mailscanner on sarge. The debian mailscanner package is > well-maintained and includes good documentation on how to make exim4 > and mailscanner interact in debian. If you install mailscanner, you > should also install the packages in "recommends" section for best > results. With sarge out and volatile.debian.net, hopefully using > spamassassin in the stable release will be reasonable over time. > > There are other packages, of course, but I've never used them. I'd > say I get mediocre results with mailscanner: of the several hundred > spams I get each day, about 45% are caught on the way in by the > server-level mailscanner, about 45% are caught by my own spamassassin > with bayes and customization, and the rest usually show up in my > unknown sender mailbox or sprinkled in among mailing lists. I don't > use the virus scanning features of mailscanner. > > In principle, it is possible to integrate spamassassin directly with > exim, but since mailscanner provides a convenient way to do that and I > had been running mailscanner for years before switching to debian > anyway, I just went down that path. > > --Jay > > -- > Jay Berkenbilt > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050609/cba9593e/attachment.bin From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Thu Jun 9 16:15:18 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Thu Jun 9 16:34:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: <200506081923.55473.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Dave Aronson wrote: > Long story short, the difference is that a switch will send to each > port, only the traffic meant for the device attached to that port. > A hub, by contrast, sends all traffic it sees, to all ports, > resulting in a lot more "collisions". Switches are more expensive, > but if your network usage is such that collisions will seriously eat > into your effective throughput (not true for most folks), they're > quite worthwhile. Ending up with a choice of two from OfficeMax, I took the one $10 cheaper, which is a D-Link 10/100 Fast Ethernet Switch DSS-8+; plugged things in, and it worked -- and I even have the subjective impression that some things (particularly bringing up eth0) are just a tad bit faster. UPS promises to get my next new machine here Tuesday afternoon. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From jhart at kevla.org Thu Jun 9 21:17:23 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Thu Jun 9 21:44:19 2005 Subject: [novalug] OT: Printers for sale Message-ID: <3040.192.168.1.14.1118366243.squirrel@www.kevla.org> I have two printer I need to get rid of. As far as I know they both work. HP 712C InkJet (This printer I know works) $20 HP T45 All-in-one (I don't know for certain it works, but I have no reason to believe it doesn't) $25 Jay Hart From cmhowe at patriot.net Fri Jun 10 05:53:43 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Fri Jun 10 05:54:11 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" Message-ID: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Frequently I want to run a command but can't. Ie, charlie@root:~pkgtool comes back bash: pkgtool: command not found Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Fri Jun 10 06:08:12 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Fri Jun 10 06:34:56 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506100608.12816.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Beartooth wrote: > Ending up with a choice of two from OfficeMax, I took the one > $10 cheaper, which is a D-Link 10/100 Fast Ethernet Switch DSS-8+; I ass-u-me that means 8 ports? That should be plenty for you and Jo, even plus the occasional visitor online at the same time. > plugged things in, and it worked -- and I even have the subjective > impression that some things (particularly bringing up eth0) are just > a tad bit faster. It's possible. Sometimes there are delays induced by bad equipment. For instance, my servers are behind a hub that, upon powerup, doesn't seem to work right for a few minutes. B-( -Dave From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Fri Jun 10 06:09:52 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Fri Jun 10 06:36:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200506100609.52080.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Charles M Howe wrote: > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? Nope. Could also be in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/bin, or /usr/local/sbin. Do you know how to set your path to include these? -Dave From geoff at uslinux.net Fri Jun 10 08:37:04 2005 From: geoff at uslinux.net (Geoff Silver) Date: Fri Jun 10 08:37:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] Linux admin needed Message-ID: <42A98970.2040703@uslinux.net> Hi all, I had a company in Fairfax ping me today looking for a Linux admin for a roughly 4 week gig (full time). I do a lot of support for different companies, but I can't dedicate 4 weeks full time to just one customer. If anyone is looking for a short-term project like this (it could turn into a permanent position, as they do want to hire someone permanently), please reply to me off-list ASAP. They need to get some servers racked and installed on *Monday*, so whoever is interested would need to be able to jump in starting next week. -- Geoff Silver U.S. Linux Networks From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 10 09:48:29 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 10 09:49:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Router & hub In-Reply-To: <200506100608.12816.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Dave Aronson wrote: > Beartooth wrote: > > > Ending up with a choice of two from OfficeMax, I took the one > > $10 cheaper, which is a D-Link 10/100 Fast Ethernet Switch DSS-8+; > > I ass-u-me that means 8 ports? That should be plenty for you and > Jo, even plus the occasional visitor online at the same time. Right -- including, of course, as on others, the uplink port. And I still have a couple of functioning wireless routers and an Apple Airport Base Station (ABS) that can be plugged into one of the spare ports for knowledgeable visitors (i.e., ones who know how to configure them in that context), so that they can use their laptops anywhere they might want. > It's possible. Sometimes there are delays induced by bad equipment. For > instance, my servers are behind a hub that, upon powerup, doesn't seem > to work right for a few minutes. B-( I was using the ABS esentially just as a cable connector -- and noticed that the little LED for it showed yellow; so I replaced it with an ordinary connector, and that light went green. :-) I hate to think what I'd be doing down here if it weren't for this list, and you in particular. Probably running M$, and chronically cursing myself hoarse .... -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From djr1952 at hotpop.com Fri Jun 10 09:07:53 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Fri Jun 10 10:08:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118408873.8158.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 05:53 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > Frequently I want to run a command but can't. Ie, > > charlie@root:~pkgtool > > comes back > > bash: pkgtool: command not found > > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > OR {after reading the other reply} Do you know how to invoke a command with it's full name? Such as for example: /bin/ls or if it in your HOME directory: ~/pkgtool or if it just happens to be in the current directory: ./pkgtool -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From mark at winksmith.com Fri Jun 10 10:02:28 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Fri Jun 10 11:16:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from cmhowe@patriot.net on Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:53:43AM -0400 References: <1118397223.18224.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050610100228.A14656@winksmith.com> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:53:43AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? if you have a locate database, it will record where all files are at the time the database is being created. it's useful to search for files this way: locate pkgtool all instances that look like pkgtool will be found. this includes programs, data files, everything. if locate isn't setup or you need an exact "right now" match you can use find. find / -name pkgtool but this may take a while and you probably don't have to actually search for it this way as it'll probably only be in a certain few places anyway: ls {/usr,/usr/local}/{bin,sbin}/pkgtool will probably find everything you want to find. alternatively, you can use the "whereis" command which does the same more or less. -- Mark Smith mark at winksmith dot com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 10 13:14:28 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:14:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: <20050610100228.A14656@winksmith.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 mark@winksmith.com wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:53:43AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? > > if you have a locate database, it will record where all files are at > the time the database is being created. How do you tell if you have one -- or create it if you don't? > it's useful to search for files this way: > > locate pkgtool > > all instances that look like pkgtool will be found. this includes > programs, data files, everything. What is the difference between locate and slocate? > if locate isn't setup or you need an exact "right now" match you can > use find. > > find / -name pkgtool > > but this may take a while and you probably don't have to actually > search for it this way as it'll probably only be in a certain few > places anyway: > > ls {/usr,/usr/local}/{bin,sbin}/pkgtool > > will probably find everything you want to find. Is that more or less equivalent to a "cat xyz | grep pkgtool" command?? Or does cat only work on a single file at a time? > alternatively, you can use the "whereis" command which does the same > more or less. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From mark at winksmith.com Fri Jun 10 13:28:27 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:28:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: ; from karhunhammas@Lserv.com on Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:14:28AM -0700 References: <20050610100228.A14656@winksmith.com> Message-ID: <20050610132827.A15904@winksmith.com> On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:14:28AM -0700, Beartooth wrote: > > if you have a locate database, it will record where all files are at > > the time the database is being created. > > How do you tell if you have one -- or create it if you don't? you can try running this command: ls /etc/cron.*/*locate* if there are any matches, you probably have it running. it depends upon your distro. the ones i know about have it on by default. ymmv. > > it's useful to search for files this way: > > > > locate pkgtool > > > > all instances that look like pkgtool will be found. this includes > > programs, data files, everything. > > What is the difference between locate and slocate? security. if you're the only on on the box probably doesn't matter. > > ls {/usr,/usr/local}/{bin,sbin}/pkgtool > > > > will probably find everything you want to find. > > Is that more or less equivalent to a "cat xyz | grep pkgtool" > command?? Or does cat only work on a single file at a time? the curly braces (csh, bash) will try each comma separated thing so the above command is the same as: ls /usr/bin/pkgtool /usr/sbin/pkgtool /usr/local/bin/pkgtool /usr/local/sbin/pkgtool that's all. nothing special. it's not a pipeline. -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Fri Jun 10 13:30:09 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:56:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506101330.09618.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Fri June 10 2005 1:14 pm, Beartooth wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 mark@winksmith.com wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:53:43AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > > > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? > > > > if you have a locate database, it will record where all files are at > > the time the database is being created. > > How do you tell if you have one -- or create it if you don't? updatedb -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From rosejw at earthlink.net Fri Jun 10 13:28:08 2005 From: rosejw at earthlink.net (Jonathan Rose) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:58:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] "command not found" Message-ID: <47342.1118424488055.JavaMail.root@wamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> -----Original Message----- From: Beartooth Sent: Jun 10, 2005 1:14 PM To: mark@winksmith.com Cc: Charles M Howe , novalug@tux.org Subject: Re: [novalug] "command not found" On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 mark@winksmith.com wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:53:43AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > Is it a fact that the only place I can hope to find a semi-exotic > > program like pkgtool is in /bin or /sbin? > > if you have a locate database, it will record where all files are at > the time the database is being created. How do you tell if you have one -- or create it if you don't? type locate and see what gets returned. :) > it's useful to search for files this way: > > locate pkgtool > > all instances that look like pkgtool will be found. this includes > programs, data files, everything. What is the difference between locate and slocate? >From what I understand, slocate is a secure locate, so if you don't have permissions to a file, slocate won't return those results. > if locate isn't setup or you need an exact "right now" match you can > use find. > > find / -name pkgtool > > but this may take a while and you probably don't have to actually > search for it this way as it'll probably only be in a certain few > places anyway: > > ls {/usr,/usr/local}/{bin,sbin}/pkgtool > > will probably find everything you want to find. Is that more or less equivalent to a "cat xyz | grep pkgtool" command?? Or does cat only work on a single file at a time? No, it's not the same. This is just using regular expressions with ls. What this is basically doing is: ls /usr/bin/pkgtool ls /usr/sbin/pkgtool ls /usr/local/bin/pkgtool ls /usr/local/sbin/pkgtool it's just doing the above 4 commands all in one. To answer your other question, you can use wildcards with cat. So you can do cat *.txt and will cat each file that matches in order. > alternatively, you can use the "whereis" command which does the same > more or less. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. _______________________________________________ novalug mailing list novalug@tux.org http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 10 14:21:17 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 10 14:21:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] possible interest : ransomware (URL) Message-ID: http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Ransomware--Learning-from-Cryptovirology-/story.xhtml?story_id=00200070HC0G -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From yayad at comcast.net Fri Jun 10 15:26:23 2005 From: yayad at comcast.net (Gerard Macel) Date: Fri Jun 10 15:44:25 2005 Subject: [novalug] QoS + iptables + NAT/static IP setup Message-ID: <200506101944.j5AJiNRE013975@gwyn.tux.org> I am having a hard time getting my QoS setup to work properly. I am using FC 3 and I have tried TOS, HTB, and FHCS. It is simply not working at all. Can someone provide a working script? This is to be used with VOIP. TIA, GM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 6/8/2005 From mark at winksmith.com Fri Jun 10 22:02:47 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Fri Jun 10 22:02:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] dynamically loadable modules for perl Message-ID: <20050610220247.A18317@winksmith.com> i want to be able to load and unload a set of functions from within a perl module. the function names will remain the same, but the code being executed changes. so, logically it would look like this: $h = load_code("package"); $h->action(); unload_code($h); the name "package" would change during the run of this long lived perl process. am i dreaming? can perl do this? -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From cmhowe at patriot.net Sat Jun 11 02:12:25 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Sat Jun 11 02:13:01 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings Message-ID: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 11 02:53:03 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 11 03:53:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118472783.19210.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:12 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > For Evolution it's: Tool -> Settings High lite the account you are interested in adjusting { select click on the account name } The click the "Edit" button Under the "Receiving Options" tab UNCHECK the box next to "Leave messages on server" This will cause it to DELETE messages after downloading them. Be careful with your local mail spool as the above changes it's mode of operation from copy to MOVE and if you louse or destroy the local copy you louse the message with no chance of recovery. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From inventfirst at adelphia.net Sat Jun 11 08:05:34 2005 From: inventfirst at adelphia.net (Macte Virtute) Date: Sat Jun 11 08:29:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] C Nanotubes speed signal routing to 10 Ghz Message-ID: <42AAD38E.9080608@adelphia.net> Here is the headline and link: *UCI scientists use nanotechnology to create world?s fastest method for transmitting information in cell phones and computers* http://today.uci.edu/news/release_detail.asp?key=1337 Ken From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Sat Jun 11 10:50:04 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Sat Jun 11 10:49:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200506111050.04288.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Sat June 11 2005 2:12 am, Charles M Howe wrote: > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie I'm not familiar with Evolution, but somewhere in your configuration for receiving mail, there should be a box or button that sets your mail program to delete the mail from the server. If it's not set, you get a copy, but it stays on the server. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From greg at pryzby.org Sat Jun 11 10:45:13 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sat Jun 11 11:06:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] wiki question Message-ID: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> I didn't know if there is a way to automatically have email added to a wiki. I write email and send it to people about a topic. I want to be able to easily capture that email in a wiki or blog (don't care). I want to allow people I don't mail to (because I forget) or who deleted the mail to have a place to read the info. Maybe post it on the wiki/blog and have it forward the info to mail addresses? (looking at it from the other side). It has to be something I (as the author) control. I don't want to force people to sign up as not everyone will. I need to information to get into the mailbox and be available on the web only entering it once. Ideas? -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050611/1b33d454/attachment.bin From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 11 11:11:37 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 11 12:11:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <200506111050.04288.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200506111050.04288.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <1118502697.19210.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 10:50 -0400, Dan Arico wrote: > On Sat June 11 2005 2:12 am, Charles M Howe wrote: > > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > > I'm not familiar with Evolution, but somewhere in your configuration for > receiving mail, there should be a box or button that sets your mail > program to delete the mail from the server. If it's not set, you get a > copy, but it stays on the server. > > Dan Arico Evolution is {or maybe} different from the norm in that regard, for it's UN-CHECK the box next to "Leave messages on server" on the "Receive Options" page for the given account. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From paulbain at pobox.com Sat Jun 11 14:07:35 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:06:17 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays with respect to Message-ID: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Sincerely, Paul Bain From paulbain at pobox.com Sat Jun 11 13:40:45 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:07:56 2005 Subject: [novalug] wiki question -- Yes, an email can be added 2 Web site In-Reply-To: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> References: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <42AB221D.7010507@pobox.com> gregory pryzby wrote: > I didn't know if there is a way to automatically have email added to a > wiki. Greg, The short answer is, "Yes, it can be so added." Read below for the details. > I write email and send it to people about a topic. I want to be able > to easily capture that email in a wiki or blog (don't care). I want to > allow people I don't mail to (because I forget) or who deleted the > mail to have a place to read the info. > Maybe post it on the wiki/blog and have it forward the info to mail > addresses? (looking at it from the other side). It has to be something > I (as the author) control. I don't want to force people to sign up as > not everyone will. I need [for] information to get into the mailbox and > be available on the web[, too, even if I am] entering it [but] once. > > Ideas? In addition to knowing a great deal about content management systems (CMS's), I also know quite a bit about "community-ware" (C-W), software that facilitates the building of Internet-based communities. While researching C-W, I came across some interesting software that probably achieves the result that you want. One of the most popular C-W's right now is phpBB, which stands for "PHP Bulletin Board." Like many other web frameworks that are based on PHP, phpBB has a modular design, permitting others easily to write and integrate modules, provided that the modules are written in PHP. There is at least one module (probably two) for phpBB that allows you to integrate phpBB with a mailing list. With this module, any mail sent to the mailing list is _automatically_ also sent to a phpBB web forum. Furthermore, you can even do the converse, too. You can configure the phpBB module to automatically send any post made to phpBB (via a web browser) to the mailing list. You may _not_ want so to configure the module, of course, if your phpBB site is popular and receiving many posts because doing so would greatly increase the traffic on the mailing list and perhaps, to that extent, "pollute" the mailing list. The author of the original phpBB module has a web moniker of "Danyblue." Nearly two years ago, he explained the history of the original Mail-to-Forum (M2F) module for phpBB and his development of a second-generation module, "CM2F." See this: http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=131009&start=0 There, DanyBlue explained that he is no longer involved in the development of M2F, just CM2F. Hence, there are probably at least two modules for phpBB that try to integrate phpBB with a mailing list. The CM2F home page is here: http://www.digitalgraal.dynalias.net/ The contents of this web page suggests that DanyBlue has ported his CM2F module to frameworks other than phpBB to include, for example, the "nukes," all CMS's derived, in one manner or another, from PHPnuke (e.g., PostNuke and Xoops, a fork of the PostNuke code). M2F's homepage is no longer at SourceForge.net. It is here: http://www.mail2forum.com/ See also this discussion that took place on a CMS mailing list in early February, 2004. This email was posted by OSS CMS luminary Gregor Rothfuss: > Bob Doyle wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone have experience with CMS tools that would allow >> an email to appear in a forum, preferably with automatic >> extraction of metadata from keywords or text search of the email? >> >> The idea is that someone could send an email to the new >> CMS-PR mailing list we are building, keyword it with, for >> example, [PRODUCT}, [SERVICE}, [PERSONNEL], or [OPEN-SOURCE], >> [XML], or other categories like those on DMOZ/Google, or >> from our Feature List for the CMSML project (http://www.cmsml.org). >> >> The email would then be listed under the right categories in >> the CMS-PR Forum. >> >> A corollary is that an entry onto the forum itself might >> generate a similar email (we would obviously have to avoid >> email loops). > > > we did some work at the xaraya project to have email <-> nntp > <-> forums gatways. it works great, and keeps the content in > one place (nntp), with email and forums as inputs. the > categorization / routing could probably be added. i can > forward a request for more info to the server team if you'd like > > best, > > -gregor I have not been able to find the web-based archives of the mailing list to which this email was sent, cms-forum@lists.cms-forum.org. Perhaps there is a link to the archives from http://www.cms-forum.org. FWIW, Xaraya is also one of the "nukes," a progeny of PHPnuke. As such, it is neither a CMS nor C-W, but, rather, a hybrid, one-half CMS and one-half C-W. Generally, such hybrids are neither good CMS's nor good C-W's. R. Lerner devoted a column or two to Xaraya in Linux Journal a few years ago. There is probably a term that describes the functionality that you seek: web <--> email. If not, there _ought_ to be such a term. After all, _many_ people seek this functionality for their C-W or CMS. I propose the term "mail2web," or perhaps "m2web." Would anyone else like to propose such a term? Greg, does this email provide the kind of information that you were looking for? Please let me know. Sincerely, Paul Bain From greg at pryzby.org Sat Jun 11 14:13:00 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:09:31 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays with respect to In-Reply-To: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20050611181300.GP3857@pryzby.org> It is the load on the server (tux.org) that is slow. there are quite a few mailing lists on the box and the queue can be 1,000s of messages. On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 02:07:35PM -0400, Paul D. Bain wrote: > > I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG > mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or > Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server > at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, > FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? > Does anyone have a solution to this problem? > > Sincerely, > Paul Bain > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050611/8ead5c48/attachment.bin From greg at pryzby.org Sat Jun 11 14:13:20 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:09:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] wiki question -- Yes, an email can be added 2 Web site In-Reply-To: <42AB221D.7010507@pobox.com> References: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> <42AB221D.7010507@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20050611181320.GQ3857@pryzby.org> thanks. this sounds good and I will read on. On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 01:40:45PM -0400, Paul D. Bain wrote: > gregory pryzby wrote: > >I didn't know if there is a way to automatically have email added to a > >wiki. > > Greg, > > The short answer is, "Yes, it can be so added." Read below for the > details. > > >I write email and send it to people about a topic. I want to be able > >to easily capture that email in a wiki or blog (don't care). I want to > >allow people I don't mail to (because I forget) or who deleted the > >mail to have a place to read the info. > > >Maybe post it on the wiki/blog and have it forward the info to mail > >addresses? (looking at it from the other side). It has to be something > >I (as the author) control. I don't want to force people to sign up as > >not everyone will. I need [for] information to get into the mailbox and > >be available on the web[, too, even if I am] entering it [but] once. > > > >Ideas? > > In addition to knowing a great deal about content management systems > (CMS's), I also know quite a bit about "community-ware" (C-W), software > that facilitates the building of Internet-based communities. While > researching C-W, I came across some interesting software that probably > achieves the result that you want. One of the most popular C-W's right > now is phpBB, which stands for "PHP Bulletin Board." Like many other web > frameworks that are based on PHP, phpBB has a modular design, permitting > others easily to write and integrate modules, provided that the modules > are written in PHP. There is at least one module (probably two) for > phpBB that allows you to integrate phpBB with a mailing list. With this > module, any mail sent to the mailing list is _automatically_ also sent > to a phpBB web forum. Furthermore, you can even do the converse, too. > You can configure the phpBB module to automatically send any post made > to phpBB (via a web browser) to the mailing list. You may _not_ want so > to configure the module, of course, if your phpBB site is popular and > receiving many posts because doing so would greatly increase the traffic > on the mailing list and perhaps, to that extent, "pollute" the mailing list. > > The author of the original phpBB module has a web moniker of > "Danyblue." Nearly two years ago, he explained the history of the > original Mail-to-Forum (M2F) module for phpBB and his development of a > second-generation module, "CM2F." See this: > > http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=131009&start=0 > > There, DanyBlue explained that he is no longer involved in the > development of M2F, just CM2F. Hence, there are probably at least two > modules for phpBB that try to integrate phpBB with a mailing list. The > CM2F home page is here: > > http://www.digitalgraal.dynalias.net/ > > The contents of this web page suggests that DanyBlue has ported his CM2F > module to frameworks other than phpBB to include, for example, the > "nukes," all CMS's derived, in one manner or another, from PHPnuke > (e.g., PostNuke and Xoops, a fork of the PostNuke code). > > M2F's homepage is no longer at SourceForge.net. It is here: > > http://www.mail2forum.com/ > > See also this discussion that took place on a CMS mailing list in > early February, 2004. This email was posted by OSS CMS luminary Gregor > Rothfuss: > > >Bob Doyle wrote: > > > >>Hi all, > >> > >>Does anyone have experience with CMS tools that would allow > >>an email to appear in a forum, preferably with automatic > >>extraction of metadata from keywords or text search of the email? > >> > >>The idea is that someone could send an email to the new > >>CMS-PR mailing list we are building, keyword it with, for > >>example, [PRODUCT}, [SERVICE}, [PERSONNEL], or [OPEN-SOURCE], > >>[XML], or other categories like those on DMOZ/Google, or > >>from our Feature List for the CMSML project (http://www.cmsml.org). > >> > >>The email would then be listed under the right categories in > >>the CMS-PR Forum. > >> > >>A corollary is that an entry onto the forum itself might > >>generate a similar email (we would obviously have to avoid > >>email loops). > > > > > >we did some work at the xaraya project to have email <-> nntp > ><-> forums gatways. it works great, and keeps the content in > >one place (nntp), with email and forums as inputs. the > >categorization / routing could probably be added. i can > >forward a request for more info to the server team if you'd like > > > >best, > > > >-gregor > > I have not been able to find the web-based archives of the mailing > list to which this email was sent, cms-forum@lists.cms-forum.org. Perhaps > there is a link to the archives from http://www.cms-forum.org. FWIW, > Xaraya is also one of the "nukes," a progeny of PHPnuke. As such, it is > neither a CMS nor C-W, but, rather, a hybrid, one-half CMS and one-half > C-W. Generally, such hybrids are neither good CMS's nor good C-W's. R. > Lerner devoted a column or two to Xaraya in Linux Journal a few years ago. > > There is probably a term that describes the functionality that you > seek: web <--> email. If not, there _ought_ to be such a term. After > all, _many_ people seek this functionality for their C-W or CMS. I > propose the term "mail2web," or perhaps "m2web." Would anyone else like > to propose such a term? > > Greg, does this email provide the kind of information that you were > looking for? Please let me know. > > Sincerely, > Paul Bain -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050611/bd081c53/attachment.bin From jhart at kevla.org Sat Jun 11 14:13:59 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:40:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: <20050611181300.GP3857@pryzby.org> References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> <20050611181300.GP3857@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Are we at a point in time that new hardware needs to be donated to Tux.org to upgrade the infrastructure? I for one have some HW that I can donate, and I would be willing to share in the costs of building new servers. Jay Hart > It is the load on the server (tux.org) that is slow. there are quite a > few mailing lists on the box and the queue can be 1,000s of messages. > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 02:07:35PM -0400, Paul D. Bain wrote: >> >> I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG >> mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or >> Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server >> at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, >> FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? >> Does anyone have a solution to this problem? >> >> Sincerely, >> Paul Bain >> _______________________________________________ >> novalug mailing list >> novalug@tux.org >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From chessman at tux.org Sat Jun 11 14:59:00 2005 From: chessman at tux.org (Samuel S Chessman) Date: Sat Jun 11 14:59:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays In-Reply-To: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jun 2005, Paul D. Bain wrote: > > I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG > mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or > Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server > at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, > FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? > Does anyone have a solution to this problem? The reason is that greylisting is in place on gwyn.tux.org, which has reduced our spam load by over 80%. The greylist hueristic asks clients to resend mail if they haven't sent a message to the user in 24 hours. Any compliant MTA will retransmit after a short delay. Spam zombies don't queue mail, they just bother someone else. So that junk is never received. Your MTA appears to have a 30 minute retry, which is reasonable. Mail after the first message of the period should go through without delay. Is it just the first mail of the day, or do all mails in a day have a 30 minute delay? Sam -- Sam Chessman chessman (a) tux.org First do what's necessary, then what's possible, finally the impossible. From chessman at tux.org Sat Jun 11 15:04:18 2005 From: chessman at tux.org (Samuel S Chessman) Date: Sat Jun 11 15:04:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jun 2005, Jay Hart wrote: > Are we at a point in time that new hardware needs to be donated to Tux.org > to upgrade the infrastructure? I for one have some HW that I can donate, > and I would be willing to share in the costs of building new servers. We have plenty of hardware. What would be helpful are skilled administrators who want to setup and tend software for Tux.Org. For example, there are a couple 1U servers in the Tux.Org universe in Maryland, currently underused. Plans for them include mail processing, community messaging software, and the normal DNS/NTP network services. Migrating services off gwyn seems to make sense for some services. Would you be interested in donating time? Sam -- Sam Chessman chessman (a) tux.org First do what's necessary, then what's possible, finally the impossible. From mstone at mathom.us Sat Jun 11 14:18:37 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Sat Jun 11 15:18:40 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays with respect to In-Reply-To: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20050611181837.GK19513@mathom.us> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 02:07:35PM -0400, Paul D. Bain wrote: > I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG >mailing list Your previous message spend half an hour queued on rcn's mail server... Received: from smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.64]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5BI7rwM020985 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:07:53 -0400 Received: from 66-44-89-169.s550.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO [66.44.89.169]) (66.44.89.169) by smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 11 Jun 2005 13:39:22 -0400 Mike Stone From paulbain at pobox.com Sat Jun 11 15:48:48 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Sat Jun 11 15:47:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- Delays explained In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AB4020.2020302@pobox.com> Samuel S Chessman wrote: >  > > On Sat, 11 Jun 2005, Paul D. Bain wrote: > > >> I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG >>mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or >>Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server >>at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, >>FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? >>Does anyone have a solution to this problem? > > > The reason is that greylisting is in place on gwyn.tux.org, which has > reduced our spam load by over 80%. The greylist hueristic asks clients > to resend mail if they haven't sent a message to the user in 24 hours. > Any compliant MTA will retransmit after a short delay. Spam zombies don't > queue mail, they just bother someone else. So that junk is never received. > Your MTA appears to have a 30 minute retry, which is reasonable. > Mail after the first message of the period should go through without delay. > Is it just the first mail of the day, or do all mails in a day have a 30 > minute delay? Sam, OK, now that you have mentioned this fact, I realize that only the first email that I sent today was so affected. The second email that I sent to the NoVa LUG mailing list (the one that started this thread, which I sent about 27 minutes after the first email) appeared on the list without much delay. And, now, I understand why. Thanks for your help. --Paul Bain From paulbain at pobox.com Sat Jun 11 15:49:29 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Sat Jun 11 15:48:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays with respect to In-Reply-To: <20050611181837.GK19513@mathom.us> References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> <20050611181837.GK19513@mathom.us> Message-ID: <42AB4049.7090402@pobox.com> Michael Stone wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 02:07:35PM -0400, Paul D. Bain wrote: > >> I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG >> mailing list > > > Your previous message spen[t] half an hour queued on rcn's mail server... > > Received: from smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net > [207.172.4.64]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id > j5BI7rwM020985 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 > 14:07:53 -0400 Received: from > 66-44-89-169.s550.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO > [66.44.89.169]) (66.44.89.169) > by smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 11 Jun 2005 13:39:22 > -0400 Mike, Dang! Why did it not occur to me simply to read the email headers? Maybe because I had done so before without being able to discern a reason for the delay? I do not know the reason. Thanks for your help. I shall try to remember to use a little more "self-help" in the future. --Paul Bain From jhart at kevla.org Sat Jun 11 16:20:14 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Sat Jun 11 16:20:27 2005 Subject: [novalug] ssh keys, where to install Message-ID: <1361.192.168.1.16.1118521214.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Hello, I am looking over the ssh-keygen, ssh-agent, ssh-add utilities. Here is my situation. Configuration: I have a router, server, and desktop (3 diff boxes). Problem to be solved: I want to be able, on a weekly basis, to backup my config files from the router to the server using a cron script. Questions: 1. Which of these boxes gets the private ssh key. I think its the server. 2. I think on the server I run ssh-keygen to setup the keys. 3. Then I copy the public keys over to the router and desktop. 4. Lastly, I think that ssh-agent needs to run on the server so that I do not have to supply a passphrase when copying the files from the router to the server. Do I have this right? TIA Jay Hart From jhart at kevla.org Sat Jun 11 16:21:53 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Sat Jun 11 16:22:05 2005 Subject: [novalug] ssh keys, where to install Message-ID: <1363.192.168.1.16.1118521313.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Hello, I am looking over the ssh-keygen, ssh-agent, ssh-add utilities. Here is my situation. Configuration: I have a router, server, and desktop (3 diff boxes). Problem to be solved: I want to be able, on a weekly basis, to backup my config files from the router to the server using a cron script. Questions: 1. Which of these boxes gets the private ssh key. I think its the server. 2. I think on the server I run ssh-keygen to setup the keys. 3. Then I copy the public keys over to the router and desktop. 4. Lastly, I think that ssh-agent needs to run on the server so that I do not have to supply a passphrase when copying the files from the router to the server. Do I have this right? TIA Jay Hart From mstone at mathom.us Sat Jun 11 15:53:17 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Sat Jun 11 16:53:29 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays In-Reply-To: References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20050611195317.GL19513@mathom.us> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 02:59:00PM -0400, Samuel S Chessman wrote: >The reason is that greylisting is in place on gwyn.tux.org It's not the greylisting in every case. Some of his messages have long delays, as well as: X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (gwyn.tux.org [199.184.165.135]); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:07:55 -0400 (EDT) If it were greylisted it would have a header like this: X-Greylist: Delayed for 01:00:00 by milter-greylist-1.6 (gwyn.tux.org [199.184.165.135]); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:05:26 -0400 (EDT) >reduced our spam load by over 80%. The greylist hueristic asks clients >to resend mail if they haven't sent a message to the user in 24 hours. 24 hours is a gratuitously short memory. Mike Stone From keith.casey at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 14:30:14 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Sat Jun 11 17:17:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] emails sent to NoVa LUG -- long delays with respect to In-Reply-To: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> References: <42AB2867.3000307@pobox.com> Message-ID: You're not the only one. About 6pm or so on Thursday, I had no messages. By 8pm, I had 3 but the timestamps on them were so old that they didn't show up on my first page of Gmail. It doesn't seem to happen all that often, but I have seen it vary from a couple hours to upwards of a day once. keith -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com On 6/11/05, Paul D. Bain wrote: > > I always suffer a one-half hour delay with respect to the NoVa LUG > mailing list regardless of the email client that I use, Eudora or > Thunderbird. For example, if I send an email to the NoVa LUG SMTP server > at 10 AM, I cannot retrieve it from my POP mail server (at my ISP, RCN, > FKA Erols) before 10:30 AM. Does anyone know the reason for this delay? > Does anyone have a solution to this problem? From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 11 17:11:59 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 11 18:12:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] ssh keys, where to install In-Reply-To: <1363.192.168.1.16.1118521313.squirrel@www.kevla.org> References: <1363.192.168.1.16.1118521313.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Message-ID: <1118524319.19209.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 16:21 -0400, Jay Hart wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking over the ssh-keygen, ssh-agent, ssh-add utilities. Here is my situation. > > Configuration: > I have a router, server, and desktop (3 diff boxes). > > Problem to be solved: > I want to be able, on a weekly basis, to backup my config files from the router to the server > using a cron script. > > Questions: > 1. Which of these boxes gets the private ssh key. I think its the server. Which private ssh key? Each user ID on each server could have there own Private/Public ssh key pair. And you would only append the public key of a User@Server to the "User on server"'s authorized_keys2 file that User@Server was allowed to ssh into. There are of course other ways to handle this depending on the level of security and/or restriction you want to archive. > 2. I think on the server I run ssh-keygen to setup the keys. > > 3. Then I copy the public keys over to the router and desktop. Yes 2 & 3 is one possible way to set things up and would work. > 4. Lastly, I think that ssh-agent needs to run on the server so that I do not have to supply a > passphrase when copying the files from the router to the server. NO NO.. If you wish to use ssh-agent to cache your "passphrase" {that you would still have to enter at least once[1] the first time you logged into that User at host} is on the machine that you run 'ssh' {the client} from. > Do I have this right? > > TIA > > Jay Hart [1] -- ssh-agent has configuration options that can shorten the period that it will cache a "passphrase" -t life Note BLASTING the same message to multiple list is considered to be poor etiquette almost at the same level as using all caps for a message. From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Sat Jun 11 22:50:41 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Sat Jun 11 23:16:59 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem Message-ID: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> I've upgraded to SuSE 9.3 on this machine. Now I can't play any mp3 files. I open xmms, my favorite player and I can't drag any files to the playlist. If I open the playlist from the xmms menu, a gui opens that let's me navigate to the file I want to play, but I can't get those files into the playlist. I can't find any documentation on this gui. Does anyone know how it works? Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From cmhowe at patriot.net Sun Jun 12 00:43:52 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Sun Jun 12 00:44:00 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <1118472783.19210.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118472783.19210.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118551432.7038.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Doesn't work. I click on tools and see something called Pilot Settings. I click on it and get an error window. But nothing called Settings. Charlie On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:53 -0400, donjr wrote: > On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:12 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > > > > For Evolution it's: > Tool -> Settings > High lite the account you are interested in adjusting > { select click on the account name } > The click the "Edit" button > Under the "Receiving Options" tab > UNCHECK the box next to "Leave messages on server" > > This will cause it to DELETE messages after downloading them. > > Be careful with your local mail spool as the above changes it's mode of > operation from copy to MOVE and if you louse or destroy the local copy > you louse the message with no chance of recovery. > > -- From nick at mrtizmo.com Sun Jun 12 01:42:44 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Sun Jun 12 01:42:48 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> I cannot answer your question, but I had some problems with xmms recently and switched to a program called Amarok. It's a KDE app, and it rocks; no going back to xmms! If you would be interested in trying something new, check it out: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9939 or http://amarok.kde.org A little something FYI... Nick Davis On Sat, June 11, 2005 22:50, Dan Arico said: > I've upgraded to SuSE 9.3 on this machine. Now I can't play any mp3 > files. I open xmms, my favorite player and I can't drag any files to the > playlist. If I open the playlist from the xmms menu, a gui opens that > let's me navigate to the file I want to play, but I can't get those > files into the playlist. > > I can't find any documentation on this gui. Does anyone know how it > works? > > Dan Arico From nick at mrtizmo.com Sun Jun 12 01:44:58 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Sun Jun 12 01:45:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: References: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Message-ID: <46639.66.171.38.4.1118555098.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Sat, June 11, 2005 15:04, Samuel S Chessman said: > We have plenty of hardware. What would be helpful are skilled administrators > who want to setup and tend software for Tux.Org. > > For example, there are a couple 1U servers in the Tux.Org universe in > Maryland, currently underused. Plans for them include mail processing, > community messaging software, and the normal DNS/NTP network services. > Migrating services off gwyn seems to make sense for some services. > > Would you be interested in donating time? > > Sam I've got quite a bit of time right now. Contact me off-list. Nick Davis From nick at mrtizmo.com Sun Jun 12 02:05:31 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Sun Jun 12 02:05:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] ssh keys, where to install In-Reply-To: <1361.192.168.1.16.1118521214.squirrel@www.kevla.org> References: <1361.192.168.1.16.1118521214.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Message-ID: <32910.66.171.38.4.1118556331.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Sat, June 11, 2005 16:20, Jay Hart said: > Hello, > > I am looking over the ssh-keygen, ssh-agent, ssh-add utilities. Here is my > situation. > > Configuration: > I have a router, server, and desktop (3 diff boxes). > > Problem to be solved: > I want to be able, on a weekly basis, to backup my config files from the > router to the server using a cron script. Here is how I do this. Assuming all of your devices can do ssh, you can do this method. 1. I have a user on my backup server with a private/public key pair for each device that I want to backup. You use ssh-keygen for this part on the server. 2. I create an account for that user on each device I want to backup. 3. I copy the public key for the device I want to backup into the user's .ssh/authorized_keys file and enter the user@backup_server.com. 4. I setup rsync to backup my files to my backup server by using scp. The rsync command looks like this: (this is all one line) rsync -ae "ssh -i /path/to/private/server_key" --bwlimit=50 user@remote_host.com:/path/to/files/ /path/to/backup_space/server_directory/ 5. I put this rsync command in a shell script and name the script after what it is doing: server_backup.cron 6. I call the shell script from cron every night: 42 3 * * * /path/to/shell/script/server_backup.cron You don't need ssh-agent here. If you did it the way I'm describing... The only things you'll need are sshd running on the router and desktop, then rsync client and ssh client and ssh-keygen on the server. HTH's Nick Davis From nick at mrtizmo.com Sun Jun 12 02:09:40 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Sun Jun 12 02:09:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] ssh keys, where to install (correction) Message-ID: <39089.66.171.38.4.1118556580.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Sat, June 11, 2005 16:20, Jay Hart said: > Hello, > > I am looking over the ssh-keygen, ssh-agent, ssh-add utilities. Here is my situation. > > Configuration: > I have a router, server, and desktop (3 diff boxes). > > Problem to be solved: > I want to be able, on a weekly basis, to backup my config files from the router to the server using a cron script. Here is how I do this. Assuming all of your devices can do ssh, you can do this method. 1. I have a user on my backup server with a private/public key pair for each device that I want to backup. You use ssh-keygen for this part on the server. 2. I create an account for that user on each device I want to backup. 3. I copy the public key for the device I want to backup into the user's .ssh/authorized_keys file and enter the user@backup_server.com. (Correction to #4, ssh instead of scp) 4. I setup rsync to backup my files to my backup server by using ssh. The rsync command looks like this: (this is all one line) rsync -ae "ssh -i /path/to/private/server_key" --bwlimit=50 user@remote_host.com:/path/to/files/ /path/to/backup_space/server_directory/ 5. I put this rsync command in a shell script and name the script after what it is doing: server_backup.cron 6. I call the shell script from cron every night: 42 3 * * * /path/to/shell/script/server_backup.cron You don't need ssh-agent here. If you did it the way I'm describing... The only things you'll need are sshd running on the router and desktop, then rsync client and ssh client and ssh-keygen on the server. HTH's Nick Davis From me at nfnti.com Sun Jun 12 01:49:39 2005 From: me at nfnti.com (nfnti) Date: Sun Jun 12 03:03:48 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: <42ABCCF3.8030703@nfnti.com> I'm also in a similar boat. I can't really solve your problem, but I can suggest another media player. XMMS stopped playing mp3's for me (goes into some sort of infinite loop or something that uses up all CPU resources when I try to play something) a while back. I switched to Beep Media Player, which is actually based on XMMS, but uses GTK2 instead of GTK 1.2. It pretty much has the same features and plugins of XMMS. I like it. Nick Davis wrote: > I cannot answer your question, but I had some problems with xmms recently and switched > to a program called Amarok. It's a KDE app, and it rocks; no going back to xmms! If > you would be interested in trying something new, check it out: > http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9939 > > or http://amarok.kde.org > > A little something FYI... > > Nick Davis > > > On Sat, June 11, 2005 22:50, Dan Arico said: > >>I've upgraded to SuSE 9.3 on this machine. Now I can't play any mp3 >>files. I open xmms, my favorite player and I can't drag any files to the >>playlist. If I open the playlist from the xmms menu, a gui opens that >>let's me navigate to the file I want to play, but I can't get those >>files into the playlist. >> >>I can't find any documentation on this gui. Does anyone know how it >>works? >> >>Dan Arico > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sun Jun 12 04:16:59 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sun Jun 12 04:17:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <1118551432.7038.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118472783.19210.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118551432.7038.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118564219.19210.94.camel@localhost.localdomain> What version of Evolution? "HELP" -> "About Evolution" I'm currently running 2.0.4 Groupware Suite on a Debian->Sarge here. On the main screen under "Tools" I have: Settings <- this is the one I click on to adjust accounts and things. Filters Create Filter from message Virtual Folder Editor Create Virtual Folder from message Subscribe to Folders... Pilot Settings.... <- I wish there was a way to totally remove this support I don't have one and don't want to have the required support packages installed. IOW Re-look at all the main menu items it's called "Settings", one word, on all the version that I have used in the past, on a OLD OLD version it was under "File" but that was many number of versions ago. On Sun, 2005-06-12 at 00:43 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > Doesn't work. I click on tools and see something called Pilot Settings. > I click on it and get an error window. But nothing called Settings. > > Charlie > > > On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:53 -0400, donjr wrote: > > On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:12 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > > > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > > > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > > > > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > > > > > > > For Evolution it's: > > Tool -> Settings > > High lite the account you are interested in adjusting > > { select click on the account name } > > The click the "Edit" button > > Under the "Receiving Options" tab > > UNCHECK the box next to "Leave messages on server" > > > > This will cause it to DELETE messages after downloading them. > > > > Be careful with your local mail spool as the above changes it's mode of > > operation from copy to MOVE and if you louse or destroy the local copy > > you louse the message with no chance of recovery. > > > > -- -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From greg at pryzby.org Sun Jun 12 08:11:33 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sun Jun 12 08:08:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <20050612121133.GC8957@pryzby.org> did you install hte multimedia rpms? THere are 4 and you need them to play mp3s and movies On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 10:50:41PM -0400, Dan Arico wrote: > I've upgraded to SuSE 9.3 on this machine. Now I can't play any mp3 > files. I open xmms, my favorite player and I can't drag any files to the > playlist. If I open the playlist from the xmms menu, a gui opens that > let's me navigate to the file I want to play, but I can't get those > files into the playlist. > > I can't find any documentation on this gui. Does anyone know how it > works? -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050612/9ed2b45e/attachment.bin From clif at cflynt.com Sun Jun 12 08:14:21 2005 From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt) Date: Sun Jun 12 08:44:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem Message-ID: <20050612121421.GA13862@clif.cflynt.com> On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 10:50:41PM -0400, Dan Arico wrote: > I've upgraded to SuSE 9.3 on this machine. Now I can't play any mp3 > files. I open xmms, my favorite player and I can't drag any files to the > playlist. If I open the playlist from the xmms menu, a gui opens that > let's me navigate to the file I want to play, but I can't get those > files into the playlist. I had the same problem when I upgraded. A bit of searching, and I learned tha if you do the yast2 upgrade thing, and select the Multimedia upgrades, you reccover the ability to play mp3s. I installed all 4 upgrades, though I understand from other posts that you only need the first one or two. SuSE followed the RedHat/Fedora lead in disabling mp3 playing to avoid fights with the media producers, but later decided this was sub-optimal and decided to support playing mp3s after all. They put the code into the supported update kit. Out of the box, SuSE 9.3 will not play DVD's via xine, etc, however, there are instructions at: http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/dvdplay/ for violating a bunch of laws and getting DVDs to play o your system - even foreign movies that you can't get in the US. It can take several tries, even following the instructions to get the right bits updated. Happy hacking, Clif -- .... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ... ..Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2'nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman .. ..12th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference: Oct 24-28, 2005, Portland, OR. ............. http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2005/ ............ From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 12 11:43:29 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Sun Jun 12 12:10:18 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy drive problem Message-ID: <20050612154329.21701.qmail@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy drive is not working prop. > > not reading from or writing to any diskette correctly > > the error messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process for the > media protocol died unexpetedly. > > Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it.and that's it. > > My computer is a : > > Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux > > CPU AMD 64 > > and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050612/549172d0/attachment.html From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 12 11:43:29 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Sun Jun 12 12:10:25 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy drive problem Message-ID: <20050612154329.21490.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy drive is not working prop. > > not reading from or writing to any diskette correctly > > the error messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process for the > media protocol died unexpetedly. > > Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it.and that's it. > > My computer is a : > > Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux > > CPU AMD 64 > > and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050612/4bf5d7b5/attachment.html From greg at pryzby.org Sun Jun 12 16:50:09 2005 From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby) Date: Sun Jun 12 17:06:10 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy drive problem In-Reply-To: <20050612154329.21701.qmail@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050612154329.21701.qmail@web54306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050612205009.GC13148@pryzby.org> Try to mount the floppy instead of using autofs to do it. mount /dev/floppy /mnt cd /mnt do stuff cd / umount /mnt Please post if that works or not. On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 08:43:29AM -0700, Frank S. wrote: > > I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy drive is not working prop. > > > > not reading from or writing to any diskette correctly > > > > the error messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process > for > the > > media protocol died unexpetedly. > > > > Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it.and > that's it. > > > > My computer is a : > > > > Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux > > > > CPU AMD 64 > > > > and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. -- greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050612/5f24f6f6/attachment.bin From jhart at kevla.org Sun Jun 12 17:56:57 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Sun Jun 12 18:23:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] Converting VHS tapes to DVDs Message-ID: <1820.192.168.1.16.1118613417.squirrel@www.kevla.org> About a year ago I bought a kit that I could use with my VHS tape drive to convert my tapes into DVDs. Unfortunately, my tape drive (built into my TV) died. My wife and I replaced the TV with a unit that had a built-in DVD. The kit I bought only works with Windows. So today I went to check into how much it would cost to convert my old tapes, and its cost prohibitive. So, I'm asking the list if someone would be willing to either loan me a VHS drive, or convert the tapes for me? I think I have around 25 tapes. Jay Hart From nick at mrtizmo.com Sun Jun 12 18:56:23 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Sun Jun 12 18:56:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <200506121455.47076.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <200506121455.47076.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <54546.66.171.38.4.1118616983.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Sun, June 12, 2005 14:55, Dan Arico said: > On Sun June 12 2005 1:42 am, Nick Davis wrote: >> I cannot answer your question, but I had some problems with xmms >> recently and switched to a program called Amarok. It's a KDE app, and >> it rocks; no going back to xmms! If you would be interested in trying >> something new, check it out: >> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9939 >> >> or http://amarok.kde.org >> >> A little something FYI... > > I tried it. It came with the installation, but it doesn't play mp3 > either. Late last night, I found a reference to the problem. It seems > SuSE has dropped support for a number of formats, including mp3. Xmms > still plays mp3, but I have to download and install it from the > development site. Hmm.. Well mine worked right off the install. > If this is true, it is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen done. > Why would you distribute a Linux desktop package that doesn't do one of > the most common things people use desktop machines to do? Right on Brother! That is aweful stupid if you ask me. > Dan Arico From email at jasonkohles.com Sun Jun 12 20:42:52 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Sun Jun 12 21:31:23 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <54546.66.171.38.4.1118616983.squirrel@66.171.38.4> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <200506121455.47076.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <54546.66.171.38.4.1118616983.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: <20050613004252.GA15578@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 06:56:23PM -0400, Nick Davis wrote: > On Sun, June 12, 2005 14:55, Dan Arico said: > > > If this is true, it is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen done. > > Why would you distribute a Linux desktop package that doesn't do one of > > the most common things people use desktop machines to do? > > Right on Brother! That is aweful stupid if you ask me. > They are probably doing it for the same reason everyone else is. They want to be able to continue giving you their distribution for free. Fraunhofer IIS and a company called Thomson hold patents that cover the audio compression used by MP3. They have made it clear (see http://www.mp3licensing.com/) that companies shipping products that contain mp3 players have to pay a royalty for every copy they ship (generally around $.75 - $1.50 per copy). This means that linux distributions that include mp3 support cannot be distributed for free in the US, unless the company doing the distributing is picking up the tab for those royalties. It also means that although you can download the missing parts pretty easily to allow your machine to play mp3s, if you don't have a license from Fraunhofer to do so, you are in violation of US patent law. Not including mp3 support also makes it easier for you to get these distributions, as most of the companies that are providing mirrors would not be willing to mirror distributions that could get them sued. -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From Rich.Goodwin at cox.net Sun Jun 12 19:34:56 2005 From: Rich.Goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin) Date: Sun Jun 12 21:35:13 2005 Subject: [novalug] Evolution settings In-Reply-To: <1118551432.7038.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1118470346.18224.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118472783.19210.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1118551432.7038.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1118619296.14210.3.camel@tuxtop.site> You need to edit the mail accounts. These are under Edit | Preferences. There you edit the Mail Accounts. You select the account name and click on EDIT. This brings up the Account Editor. Click on the Receiving Options.... and under Message storage is "Leave messages on server." Select there will delete the messages from the server. Rich On Sun, 2005-06-12 at 00:43 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > Doesn't work. I click on tools and see something called Pilot Settings. > I click on it and get an error window. But nothing called Settings. > > Charlie > > > On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:53 -0400, donjr wrote: > > On Sat, 2005-06-11 at 02:12 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > > > My ISP says that I am about to use up all the space allotted to me for > > > mail. Hunh?! I thought that when I downloaded my mail it was gone from > > > his machine. He tells me to look at my mail settings. Where are they? > > > > > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > > > > > > > For Evolution it's: > > Tool -> Settings > > High lite the account you are interested in adjusting > > { select click on the account name } > > The click the "Edit" button > > Under the "Receiving Options" tab > > UNCHECK the box next to "Leave messages on server" > > > > This will cause it to DELETE messages after downloading them. > > > > Be careful with your local mail spool as the above changes it's mode of > > operation from copy to MOVE and if you louse or destroy the local copy > > you louse the message with no chance of recovery. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- Key fingerprint = 8BF9 990D 8853 5CD8 AB44 8F48 7BC8 5D4B 1B25 7AEC Remember, all Windows-based machines are, by definition, fault tolerant. They run Windows don't they?!?!?!? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050612/1ba82ae4/attachment.bin From dsl at zai.com Sun Jun 12 21:30:26 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sun Jun 12 22:34:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] floppy drive problem In-Reply-To: <20050612154329.21490.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050612154329.21490.qmail@web54307.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42ACE1B2.5000502@zai.com> Frank, SuSE uses a non-standard file system to access the floppy drive. The fstab entry on my box has: /dev/fd0 /media/floppy subfs noauto,fs=floppyfss,procuid,nodev,nosuid,sync 0 0 Subfs is a virtual file system that figures out if media is present and the kind of file system on the media. MSDOS floppys seem to be treated properly but Konqueror died if there was no media present. Konqueror also could not read the contents of a floppy until I had listed it with ls from the command line. If you are dealing with a DOS formatted floppy you may find that mtools works better. For example: mdir a: mcopy a: ~/floppy It may be desirable to remove the SuSE entry for /dev/fd0 from fstab entirely. You can then use (as root): mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy HTH Dave Frank S. wrote: > I have linux suse 9.3 and the floppy drive is not working prop. > not reading from or writing to any diskette correctly > the error messages that I get is : Error Konqueror. the process for > the media protocol died unexpetedly. > Actually I can format a floppy and boot my system from it.and > that's it. > > My computer is a : > Motherboard Asus A8V-E delux CPU AMD 64 > and I'm geting the same error in a 32bit Machine. From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Sun Jun 12 22:18:53 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Sun Jun 12 22:45:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <20050613004252.GA15578@mail.jasonkohles.com> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <54546.66.171.38.4.1118616983.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <20050613004252.GA15578@mail.jasonkohles.com> Message-ID: <200506122218.53903.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Sun June 12 2005 8:42 pm, you wrote: > They are probably doing it for the same reason everyone else is. They > want to be able to continue giving you their distribution for free. > > Fraunhofer IIS and a company called Thomson hold patents that cover > the audio compression used by MP3. They have made it clear (see > http://www.mp3licensing.com/) that companies shipping products that > contain mp3 players have to pay a royalty for every copy they ship > (generally around $.75 - $1.50 per copy). This means that linux > distributions that include mp3 support cannot be distributed for free > in the US, unless the company doing the distributing is picking up the > tab for those royalties. It also means that although you can download > the missing parts pretty easily to allow your machine to play mp3s, if > you don't have a license from Fraunhofer to do so, you are in > violation of US patent law. > > Not including mp3 support also makes it easier for you to get these > distributions, as most of the companies that are providing mirrors > would not be willing to mirror distributions that could get them sued. All well and good as far as it goes, but I *paid* the full price for my copy. Considering it came to about $90, I'd think they could afford $0.75 in licensing. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From john.johnknight at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 23:36:14 2005 From: john.johnknight at gmail.com (John Knight) Date: Mon Jun 13 00:03:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] wiki question In-Reply-To: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> References: <20050611144513.GO3857@pryzby.org> Message-ID: <9fdb5c4c050612203614dc1725@mail.gmail.com> webcollaborator.com may help you. On 6/11/05, gregory pryzby wrote: > > I didn't know if there is a way to automatically have email added to a > wiki. > > I write email and send it to people about a topic. I want to be able > to easily capture that email in a wiki or blog (don't care). I want to > allow people I don't mail to (because I forget) or who deleted the > mail to have a place to read the info. > > Maybe post it on the wiki/blog and have it forward the info to mail > addresses? (looking at it from the other side). It has to be something > I (as the author) control. I don't want to force people to sign up as > not everyone will. I need to information to get into the mailbox and > be available on the web only entering it once. > > Ideas? > > -- > greg pryzby greg at pryzby dot org > fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F > > > BodyID:174880585.2.n.logpart (stored separately) > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050613/8e426219/attachment.html From todd at brambleton.net Mon Jun 13 00:11:09 2005 From: todd at brambleton.net (Todd Hakala) Date: Mon Jun 13 00:44:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? Message-ID: This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) that is coming under login attack usually on weekends at night. Looking through /var/log/ messages, the attacks come from one IP address and, judging by the login names in the attempts, appears to be a script-kiddie. The IP address is constant for a night, then it will change during the next attack attempt. The attacks are tried on FTP and SSH. I can't turn either of these services off, because it is an FTP server for clients, and I need to SSH into it for remote admin stuff. How do I put a limit on login attempts? I would like to set the number of tries to 5, and perhaps temporarily ban the failing requesting IP for 5 or 10 minutes. What I don't want to do is lock out an account that would require a reset by a sysadmin, because some not-so-technically-inclined clients are trying to use this server 24/7. I looked around with Google, the man pages for login and ssh, but can't find anything that tells me how to do this. Is this even possible? Your perpetual noob, Todd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050613/f6ce0075/attachment.html From paulbain at pobox.com Mon Jun 13 00:52:16 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Mon Jun 13 00:51:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? Consider security patches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AD1100.1060509@pobox.com> Todd Hakala wrote: > This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... > > I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) Yes, but are you still getting security patches for it? If not, perhaps you should consider another distribution. It is difficult to get security patches for old releases of most Linux distributions. Even Debian ceases to provide security patches for a release about one year after that release ceases to be the "stable" release of Debian. For example, Debian Woody, which has just been replaced by Debian Sarge as the "stable" release, will cease receiving security patches in about one year's time. --Paul Bain > that is coming under > login attack usually on weekends at night. From me at nfnti.com Mon Jun 13 01:09:33 2005 From: me at nfnti.com (nfnti) Date: Mon Jun 13 01:09:46 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AD150D.7090008@nfnti.com> Some comments, but unfortunately not a full solution. First off, I don't think FTP is necessary as you can tunnel FTP through SSH with sftp, which is much more secure than regular FTP. There are lots of clients for windoze that let you do this such as the one from ssh.com and Putty and they work just like any other FTP client like WS_FTP. All a user would need is an ssh account. I can't even remember the last time I used regular FTP except when accessing a public FTP server as anonymous. As for SSH itself, I know there is an option "MaxAuthTries" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config, but I have yet to see it work (or more likely, I misunderstand how it works). According to the manpage: MaxAuthTries Specifies the maximum number of authentication attempts permitted per connection. Once the number of failures reaches half this value, additional failures are logged. The default is 6. One would think, based on the example, that someone could only try to login 6 times, with 3 of the tries being logged. However based on my observation, this is not entirely true. I also receive the attacks you spoke of on a regular basis and get several login attempts for a variety of users way beyond the limit I set in sshd_config. As for setting something up to block the IP for a while, I believe this has come up before (either on this list, or another, I forget). I think the consensus was that no one knew of a way to automate the process. However, this does not mean that there is no way to automate this. Sorry I wasn't more helpful. Todd Hakala wrote: > This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... > > I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) that is coming under > login attack usually on weekends at night. Looking through > /var/log/messages, the attacks come from one IP address and, judging by > the login names in the attempts, appears to be a script-kiddie. The IP > address is constant for a night, then it will change during the next > attack attempt. > > The attacks are tried on FTP and SSH. I can't turn either of these > services off, because it is an FTP server for clients, and I need to SSH > into it for remote admin stuff. > > How do I put a limit on login attempts? I would like to set the number > of tries to 5, and perhaps temporarily ban the failing requesting IP for > 5 or 10 minutes. What I don't want to do is lock out an account that > would require a reset by a sysadmin, because some > not-so-technically-inclined clients are trying to use this server 24/7. > > I looked around with Google, the man pages for login and ssh, but can't > find anything that tells me how to do this. Is this even possible? > > > Your perpetual noob, > > > Todd > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From pnuwayser at cox.net Mon Jun 13 00:29:33 2005 From: pnuwayser at cox.net (Pete Nuwayser) Date: Mon Jun 13 02:13:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: <46639.66.171.38.4.1118555098.squirrel@66.171.38.4> References: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> <46639.66.171.38.4.1118555098.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: <20050613042933.GB17886@elvin.mydomain.lan> On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 01:44:58AM -0400, Nick Davis wrote: > On Sat, June 11, 2005 15:04, Samuel S Chessman said: > > We have plenty of hardware. What would be helpful are skilled administrators > > who want to setup and tend software for Tux.Org. > > > > For example, there are a couple 1U servers in the Tux.Org universe in > > Maryland, currently underused. Plans for them include mail processing, > > community messaging software, and the normal DNS/NTP network services. > > Migrating services off gwyn seems to make sense for some services. > > > > Would you be interested in donating time? > > > > Sam > > I've got quite a bit of time right now. Contact me off-list. > > Nick Davis there is also the possibility that someone could look over nick's shoulder and see how this work is done. I'm not speaking for Nick; just generically. There was a request for more opportunities for apprenticeship or any kind of flight time on Linux a couple of meetings ago. Requests like that ought to be expressed on this list so people can know about them. T.O is a good opportunity if only because there's no NDA to sign (I don't think). comments? Pete From juliac at patriot.net Mon Jun 13 07:00:35 2005 From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson) Date: Mon Jun 13 07:14:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] XMMS Problem In-Reply-To: <20050613004252.GA15578@mail.jasonkohles.com> References: <200506112250.41343.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <46637.66.171.38.4.1118554964.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <200506121455.47076.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> <54546.66.171.38.4.1118616983.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <20050613004252.GA15578@mail.jasonkohles.com> Message-ID: <42AD6753.40805@patriot.net> Jason Kohles wrote: > tab for those royalties. It also means that although you can download > the missing parts pretty easily to allow your machine to play mp3s, if > you don't have a license from Fraunhofer to do so, you are in violation > of US patent law. Small quibble (from http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/enduser.html#5): However, no license is needed for private, non-commercial activities (e.g., home-entertainment, receiving broadcasts and creating a personal music library), not generating revenue or other consideration of any kind or for entities with an annual gross revenue less than US$ 100.000.00. -- Julia From jhart at kevla.org Mon Jun 13 08:21:12 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Mon Jun 13 08:21:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: <20050613042933.GB17886@elvin.mydomain.lan> References: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> <46639.66.171.38.4.1118555098.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <20050613042933.GB17886@elvin.mydomain.lan> Message-ID: <49385.63.104.174.146.1118665272.squirrel@www.kevla.org> > there is also the possibility that someone could look over nick's shoulder > and see how this work is done. I'm not speaking for Nick; just generically. > > There was a request for more opportunities for apprenticeship or any kind > of flight time on Linux a couple of meetings ago. Requests like that ought > to be expressed on this list so people can know about them. T.O is > a good opportunity if only because there's no NDA to sign (I don't think). NDA, Why would an NDA be needed? Second, if the work needs to be done, lets get it done. Plenty of people available we could meet one Saturday and get everything done. Jay Hart > > comments? > > Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From eric at trueblade.com Mon Jun 13 08:47:59 2005 From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric V. Smith) Date: Mon Jun 13 09:11:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? In-Reply-To: <42AD150D.7090008@nfnti.com> References: <42AD150D.7090008@nfnti.com> Message-ID: <42AD807F.6040101@trueblade.com> nfnti wrote: > MaxAuthTries > Specifies the maximum number of authentication attempts permitted > per connection. Once the number of failures reaches half this > value, additional failures are logged. The default is 6. > > One would think, based on the example, that someone could only try to > login 6 times, with 3 of the tries being logged. Each login attempt is coming in on a new connection, so this limit is never reached. IIRC, ssh doesn't even allow you to try multiple user names on the same connection. Eric. From gibsons at jmsearch.com Mon Jun 13 08:59:44 2005 From: gibsons at jmsearch.com (Shawn Gibson) Date: Mon Jun 13 09:44:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] Sr DBA opportunity Message-ID: Location: Bethesda, MD (Washington DC Metro Area, metro-accessible) Senior Database Administrator (DBA) Primary Responsibilities: * Data model design and recommendations. * Maintenance of database. * Develop and support MySQL database replication. * Optimize MySQL database performance. * Estimate MySQL database capacities. * Develop methods for monitoring database capacity and usage. Required Experience: * Relational database design. * Performance tuning and capacity planning, especially with MySQL. * Min. BS Computer Science or equivalent. * Min. 3 years experience as a DBA or equivalent. * Experience with open source/Linux development and production environment. Preferred Experience: * Databases other than MySQL. * Some programming abilities. * Reporting tools. Shawn E Gibson Director of IT Recruiting JM & Company P.O. Box 285 Wayne, PA 19087 Main: 610-964-0200 www.jmsearch.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050613/cd0562af/attachment-0001.html From dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com Mon Jun 13 08:53:04 2005 From: dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com (Dave Ashby) Date: Mon Jun 13 10:15:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42AD81B0.6000507@1993.usna.com> Todd Hakala wrote: > This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... > > I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) that is coming under > login attack usually on weekends at night. Looking through > /var/log/messages, the attacks come from one IP address and, judging > by the login names in the attempts, appears to be a script-kiddie. The > IP address is constant for a night, then it will change during the > next attack attempt. > > The attacks are tried on FTP and SSH. I can't turn either of these > services off, because it is an FTP server for clients, and I need to > SSH into it for remote admin stuff. > > How do I put a limit on login attempts? I would like to set the number > of tries to 5, and perhaps temporarily ban the failing requesting IP > for 5 or 10 minutes. What I don't want to do is lock out an account > that would require a reset by a sysadmin, because some > not-so-technically-inclined clients are trying to use this server 24/7. > > I looked around with Google, the man pages for login and ssh, but > can't find anything that tells me how to do this. Is this even possible? > > > Your perpetual noob, > > > Todd > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >novalug mailing list >novalug@tux.org >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > Here's some recommendations I made a few months back on the list (topic was ssh hardening if you want to check the archives for related discussion): here's what I would suggest to harden ssh before allowing access from the internet: -utilize the AllowUsers parameter in sshd_config to limit the users that can access ssh. -reduce the MaxAuthTries from 6 to 2 or 3 -put a rate limit on new connections over port 22 (use an iptables rule with -m limit --limit 1/m for example) (Note that this is my suggestion for a home network with only one user - it's not very practical if you have a number of users that routinely login to a box. In that case, I'd suggest considering the AuthorizedKeysFile option below) -make sure that you're monitoring your logwatch for login attempts. I've seen a significant reduction in the number of attempts since I implemented the two items above. For the really paranoid, utilize the AuthorizedKeysFile option of sshd_config to limit connections to only those boxes with keys in the file. I haven't gone this far yet, as I sometimes will access my home network from a different computer. Some folks would also advocate setting up ssh to listen on a non-standard port. I'm not a big fan of that approach as it's really "security by obscurity" and complicates (albeit only slightly) your ssh connections from other boxes. I'd probably change my tone on the last item (non-standard port), given some of the subsequent traffic on these recommendations. Using a non-standard port for ssh can take you completely off the radar for the vast majority of script kiddies. I *think* ftp probably has some similar options to what I list above, but I'd strongly encourage you get your clients moved over to ssh - if for no other reason than that ftp passwords are sent clear-text and can be picked up by anyone "sniffing" their/your network. Hope this helps. -dave From nick at mrtizmo.com Mon Jun 13 11:00:39 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Mon Jun 13 11:00:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: Was: emails sent to NoVa LUG Now: Hardware Donations In-Reply-To: <20050613042933.GB17886@elvin.mydomain.lan> References: <1321.192.168.1.16.1118513639.squirrel@www.kevla.org> <46639.66.171.38.4.1118555098.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <20050613042933.GB17886@elvin.mydomain.lan> Message-ID: <57135.66.171.38.4.1118674839.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Mon, June 13, 2005 0:29, Pete Nuwayser said: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 01:44:58AM -0400, Nick Davis wrote: >> On Sat, June 11, 2005 15:04, Samuel S Chessman said: >> > We have plenty of hardware. What would be helpful are skilled administrators >> > who want to setup and tend software for Tux.Org. >> > >> > For example, there are a couple 1U servers in the Tux.Org universe in >> > Maryland, currently underused. Plans for them include mail processing, >> > community messaging software, and the normal DNS/NTP network services. >> > Migrating services off gwyn seems to make sense for some services. >> > >> > Would you be interested in donating time? >> > >> > Sam >> >> I've got quite a bit of time right now. Contact me off-list. >> >> Nick Davis > > there is also the possibility that someone could look over nick's shoulder > and see how this work is done. I'm not speaking for Nick; just generically. > > There was a request for more opportunities for apprenticeship or any kind > of flight time on Linux a couple of meetings ago. Requests like that ought > to be expressed on this list so people can know about them. T.O is > a good opportunity if only because there's no NDA to sign (I don't think). > > comments? > > Pete I know from my experience that most server admin work in a situation like this is done from home. You usually don't need to go "into the office" to do the work other than physically connecting up a new a box and doing the initial linux install. This makes it more difficult for apprenticeships. However, I guess instead of meeting at the office you could meet at someones home.. not much difference with a metro available. I wouldn't mind teaching someone what I was doing. Nick From tom at infoether.com Mon Jun 13 10:45:20 2005 From: tom at infoether.com (Tom Copeland) Date: Mon Jun 13 11:11:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118673920.15022.7.camel@hal> On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 00:11 -0400, Todd Hakala wrote: > How do I put a limit on login attempts? I would like to set the number > of tries to 5, and perhaps temporarily ban the failing requesting IP > for 5 or 10 minutes. What I don't want to do is lock out an account > that would require a reset by a sysadmin, because some not-so- > technically-inclined clients are trying to use this server 24/7. This looks promising: http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/index.html Although I don't have first-hand experience with it... Yours, tom From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 15:55:54 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Mon Jun 13 16:22:45 2005 Subject: [novalug] Thank you dave Message-ID: <20050613195554.48559.qmail@web54303.mail.yahoo.com> thank you dave. that worked. thanks. frank --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050613/8b71c6d3/attachment.html From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Mon Jun 13 16:27:28 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Mon Jun 13 16:53:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] Multimedia Message-ID: <200506131627.29082.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Thanks for all the useful information. I've got all my multimedia applications working now. Yes, that includes playing DVDs. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From malkajef at orthohelp.com Mon Jun 13 16:24:17 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Mon Jun 13 17:19:12 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> Message-ID: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Hi I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago when I was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my work needs necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would like to try again. This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you could reply off-list. Thanks. Jeff Malka --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 Tested on: 6/13/2005 4:35:13 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From keith.casey at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 17:27:02 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Mon Jun 13 17:53:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which > distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of > distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any > opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you > could reply off-list. It's been DAYS since a good distro war. ;) Knoppix, Ubuntu, and Kubuntu seem to be the favorite "live" distros... As in, you don't have to wipe your machine to play with it. I just had Kubuntu recommended to me by Ted and will be trying it on my laptop this evening. http://www.kubuntu.org/ http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ http://www.knoppix.org/ -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Mon Jun 13 17:35:02 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Mon Jun 13 18:01:11 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <200506131735.02236.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Mon June 13 2005 4:24 pm, Jeff Malka wrote: > Hi > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago > when I was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my > work needs necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would > like to try again. > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - > which distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n > umber of distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu > or Debian. Any opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more > comfortable, you could reply off-list. I started with SuSE because it came with more documentation than anything else I found. Red Hat and Fedora are two other possibilities for the same reason. There are excellent books available. Debian is just out with the newest distribution, but most of the documentation will be on line. Those are the ones I'm most familiar with. I'm sure other people will have their own preferences. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From david.s.shaver at us.army.mil Mon Jun 13 18:39:17 2005 From: david.s.shaver at us.army.mil (David.s.shaver) Date: Mon Jun 13 19:13:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <200506131735.02236.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Message-ID: <421mle$11596e@mxoutdr1.us.army.mil> >>which distribution? Irix. It is really simple and stable. Then again, I need a life.... Dave From palmer at patriot.net Mon Jun 13 17:50:11 2005 From: palmer at patriot.net (Cliff Palmer) Date: Mon Jun 13 20:20:12 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <1118699411.4280.4.camel@gl4d1ml1nux> Jeff welcome back and thanks for introducing yourself. My attitude toward distributions is "pick one and go with it - then pitch it when you want to try another". No matter what you may hear from those who advocate for a particular distribution, its your choice based on your needs and likes. The cost to you to change distros is time, and the more familiar you become with linux the less time you will need to spend in order to change. I'm sure others will have a preference (and I do too, but that's not the point), but the main thing is what pleases you. Now that you are retired it may be that you will have more time to experiment. Have fun with it , and again, welcome back. Cliff On Mon, 2005-06-13 at 16:24, Jeff Malka wrote: > Hi > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago when I > was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my work needs > necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would like to try again. > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which > distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of > distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any > opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you > could reply off-list. > > Thanks. > > Jeff Malka > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 > Tested on: 6/13/2005 4:35:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From geostone at cox.net Mon Jun 13 19:27:39 2005 From: geostone at cox.net (George Stone) Date: Mon Jun 13 21:09:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42AE166B.5030202@cox.net> Jeff Malka wrote: > Hi > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago > when I was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my > work needs necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would > like to try again. > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - > which distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n > umber of distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu > or Debian. Any opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more > comfortable, you could reply off-list. > > Thanks. > > Jeff Malka > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 > Tested on: 6/13/2005 4:35:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > Hi, Jeff -- I've been using Linux now for about a year, mostly with Suse. The latest version, 9.3, is getting excellent reviews. I've got it working on desktops and laptops...including WLAN. Though, another member of the group is having problems with WLAN. From juliac at patriot.net Mon Jun 13 21:41:12 2005 From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson) Date: Mon Jun 13 21:38:28 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? Consider security patches In-Reply-To: <42AD1100.1060509@pobox.com> References: <42AD1100.1060509@pobox.com> Message-ID: <42AE35B8.6010304@patriot.net> Paul D. Bain wrote: > Todd Hakala wrote: > >> This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... >> >> I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) > > > Yes, but are you still getting security patches for it? If not, > perhaps you should consider another distribution. It is difficult to get > security patches for old releases of most Linux distributions. Even Not that I recommend running RH7, but http://fedoralegacy.org/updates/RH7.3/ last updated 9 days ago ... -- Julia From dsl at zai.com Mon Jun 13 23:16:11 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Tue Jun 14 00:17:11 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42AE4BFB.7090103@zai.com> Jeff, It's nice to hear from you again. We exchanged many messages in the days of CPCUG and OS/2, not to mention our former doctor-patient relationship. I have tried to keep familiar with all of the major distributions. I work with both SuSE and Red Hat professionally and I am up to date with Fedora, Debian, and Ubuntu as well. My personal preference is SuSE Professional. This is available in a boxed set for $90, but you can also purchase the upgrade version for $60 plus shipping or you can download or do a network install for free. The current version is 9.3 and the free download has been available for about a week. The things that I like best with SuSE are the quality of the system administration tools and the fullness of the included set of applications. I can summarize the steps for a ftp install if you wish to follow that route. Red Hat is number one in my professional work because my customers are familiar with it and they do not object to paying Red Hat millions of dollars per year for service. There is almost no interest in their product among hobbyists. Administrative tools tools are very good but the range of available applications is somewhat limited. The $179 starting price (no media or documentation) for Enterprise Work Station 4 will probably turn you off. Fedora is a popular free distribution that is sponsored by Red Hat. You can download the software or buy CDs or DVDs from cheapbytes.com. It is an experimental platform for Red Hat and there are many unresolved bugs. The administrative tools are good and the range of available applications is actually better than for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Debian is in a class by itself. It is pointedly free and it has the largest range of available applications. The current version (Sarge) was released last week after years of waiting. Package administration ranges from excellent to fair, depending on what you want to to and on your persistence in learning how to use their tools. Administrative tools are generally poor. Still there are many who have mastered its quirks. They have quick and easy access to almost anything you would want to do. Ubuntu is a fun distribution that is based on Debian. It is free to the point that you can get a CD that is free and it will be mailed to you with free shipping. They have added some good administrative tools and really cleaned up the install. Unfortunately, they have deviated from Debian in ways that render most Debian binaries unusable on Ubuntu. The result is a nice distribution that is currently somewhat limited. This may change in the future as Ubuntu is growing in popularity. My recommendation is to try free installs of SuSE and Ubuntu. As a retired person you should have the time to fool with both of them. Regards, Dave Jeff Malka wrote: > Hi > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago when I > was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my work needs > necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would like to try again. > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which > distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of > distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any > opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you > could reply off-list. > > Thanks. > > Jeff Malka > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 > Tested on: 6/13/2005 4:35:13 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com From nick at mrtizmo.com Tue Jun 14 01:51:46 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 14 01:51:50 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <49380.66.171.38.4.1118728306.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Welcome back! Since there are few other Mandrake/Mandriva users here.. I throw in my plug for what I prefer. Mandrake recently joined up forces with Conectiva and formed Mandriva. About a month ago they released Mandriva Linux 2005 Limited Edition (free download) and it runs on x86, x86_64,and PPC. I would put it up there at the top of the easy for a beginner to use distros.. yet easy for advanced usage also. I have it as a workstation, server, firewall.. all on separate systems.. and no major complaints. If you want semi-commercial apps like Acrobat, Java, Firefox, RealPlayer, Quicktime, etc.. those all come with it. You can download updates automatically (windows update style) with URPMI. Mandrive has a users club which gives you access to early releases, other commercial packages, and extra support. I'd recommend it. When people ask me what distro to start with I usually list these three: Mandriva, Suse, Ubuntu.. in no particular order. They are all good to start with.. change them around whenver you get bored with one. So there *steps off of stump* I threw out my $0.02 HTH's Nick Davis On Mon, June 13, 2005 16:24, Jeff Malka said: > Hi > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago when I > was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my work needs > necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would like to try again. > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which > distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of > distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any > opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you > could reply off-list. > > Thanks. > > Jeff Malka From patrick.mullaley at mci.com Tue Jun 14 09:40:04 2005 From: patrick.mullaley at mci.com (Patrick Mullaley) Date: Tue Jun 14 09:55:53 2005 Subject: [novalug] New member In-Reply-To: <49380.66.171.38.4.1118728306.squirrel@66.171.38.4> References: <200506131348.j5DDmP6i027705@gwyn.tux.org> <001601c57057$661931c0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> <49380.66.171.38.4.1118728306.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: <1118756404.8536.13.camel@dyn63-87-43-175.wlan.research.uu.net> To throw some more support the Mandr[iva|ake] way. I think you truly need to look at what you want to do with it, before you try to pick a distro. Desktop? Server? Combination of both? Do you want to run it on a laptop without wires? Do you have an old P1-233 w/ 16 MB of RAM you are trying to run it on? How much disk space are you willing to give it? 4GB, 40? 400? I have personally run mandr[ake|iva] now for a number of years. Their latest version LE2005 is by far the best distro I have ever seen. Before the true wars start, let me say that it is my belief that any linux running KDE3.4, Kernel 2.6.11+, and all the fancy, shiny new tools will probably be just as good regardless of the sticker on the box/website. I prefer Mandriva because they have simplified a lot of the more common tasks by writing wrappers around them. I have been impressed with both the Ubuntu and Kubuntu Live CD distros. Very sleek, fairly quick (but running from a CD I can understand the delay). I have recently converted two of the smartest security and router people I have ever met to Mandriva. They both said that on their laptops, they have never had a distro work out of the box with everything: touchpad, wireless networking, video and video aspect, usb mice, etc. If they were that impressed, I would have to offer up the recommendation for someone that is new to linux as well. If it works, you will use it, if it doesn't you will end up hating linux and throwing in the towel. Good Luck, Patrick On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 01:51 -0400, Nick Davis wrote: > Welcome back! > > Since there are few other Mandrake/Mandriva users here.. I throw in my plug for what I > prefer. Mandrake recently joined up forces with Conectiva and formed Mandriva. About a > month ago they released Mandriva Linux 2005 Limited Edition (free download) and it > runs on x86, x86_64,and PPC. I would put it up there at the top of the easy for a > beginner to use distros.. yet easy for advanced usage also. I have it as a > workstation, server, firewall.. all on separate systems.. and no major complaints. > > If you want semi-commercial apps like Acrobat, Java, Firefox, RealPlayer, Quicktime, > etc.. those all come with it. > > You can download updates automatically (windows update style) with URPMI. > > Mandrive has a users club which gives you access to early releases, other commercial > packages, and extra support. I'd recommend it. > > When people ask me what distro to start with I usually list these three: Mandriva, > Suse, Ubuntu.. in no particular order. They are all good to start with.. change them > around whenver you get bored with one. > > > So there *steps off of stump* I threw out my $0.02 > > HTH's > Nick Davis > > > > On Mon, June 13, 2005 16:24, Jeff Malka said: > > Hi > > > > I have just joined the mailing list. I used to belong 5-6 years ago when I > > was trying to learn about Linux. I had to give up because my work needs > > necessitated using Windows. Now, I am retired and would like to try again. > > > > This is the same question that must have been asked a million times - which > > distribution? I am thoroughly confused by the bewildering n umber of > > distributions out there. I am leaning towards either Ubantu or Debian. Any > > opinions on these two, pro, con or otherwise? If more comfortable, you > > could reply off-list. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jeff Malka > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Tue Jun 14 10:22:34 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Tue Jun 14 10:48:40 2005 Subject: [novalug] Reactos Message-ID: <200506141022.34581.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> Anybody know anything about this? http://www.reactos.com/ Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Jun 14 12:30:14 2005 From: megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov (C. Megan Larko) Date: Tue Jun 14 12:58:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] zlib-devel and Debian sarge Message-ID: <20050614163014.GA7958@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Hi, I am trying to perform a "./configure" on openssh-3.9p1-hpn. My Fedora Core 2/3 boxes have a file /usr/include/zlib.h from the zlib-devel rpm. I would like to build this openssh tarball on my Debian boxes. I don't have /usr/include/zlib.h. My apt-get install zlib-devel return the following: lwg3:~# apt-get install zlib-devel Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done E: Couldn't find package zlib-devel My apt-cache search zlib command does not return any package with zlib-devel although there are such packages as: zlib-bin - compression library - sample programs zlib1g - compression library - runtime zlib1g-dev - compression library - development zlibc - Uncompressing C Library zziplib-bin - library providing read access on ZIP-archives - binaries How do I get a /usr/include/zlib.h file onto a sarge Debian box? Is it the Debian "zlibc" Uncompressing C library? megan -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "God, grant me the serenity to prioritize the things I cannot delegate, courage to say no when I need to, and wisdom to know when to go home." -Plagiarized from an unknown source ----------------------------------------------------------------- C. Megan Larko Laboratory for Hydrospheric Sciences Code 614.3 Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 From megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov Tue Jun 14 13:25:57 2005 From: megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov (C. Megan Larko) Date: Tue Jun 14 13:26:19 2005 Subject: [novalug] Debian zlib.h found Message-ID: <20050614172557.GA8116@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> The package zlib1g-dev - compression library - development will provide the file /usr/include/zlib.h I used the trial and error approach. Install a pkg or two and see if the file turns up. megan -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "God, grant me the serenity to prioritize the things I cannot delegate, courage to say no when I need to, and wisdom to know when to go home." -Plagiarized from an unknown source ----------------------------------------------------------------- C. Megan Larko Laboratory for Hydrospheric Sciences Code 614.3 Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 From nick at mrtizmo.com Tue Jun 14 14:51:40 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 14 14:51:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] Debian - how to find which package provides a file, was Debian zlib.h found In-Reply-To: <20050614172557.GA8116@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <20050614172557.GA8116@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <60067.66.171.38.4.1118775100.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Here is the easy way to find your answer: If your system has apt-file do this: apt-file search filename More info: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-search.en.html#s-apt-file OR One of the ways to locate the name of a package is to know the name of an important file found within the package. For example, to find the package that provides a particular ".h" file you need for compilation you can run: # dpkg -S stdio.h libc6-dev: /usr/include/stdio.h libc6-dev: /usr/include/bits/stdio.h perl: /usr/lib/perl/5.6.0/CORE/nostdio.h or: # dpkg -S /usr/include/stdio.h libc6-dev: /usr/include/stdio.h More info: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-search.en.html#s-dpkg-search HTH's Nick Davis On Tue, June 14, 2005 13:25, C. Megan Larko said: > The package zlib1g-dev - compression library - development > will provide the file /usr/include/zlib.h > > I used the trial and error approach. Install a pkg or > two and see if the file turns up. > > megan > -- From djr1952 at hotpop.com Tue Jun 14 14:41:25 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Tue Jun 14 15:41:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: [dclug] Debian zlib.h found In-Reply-To: <20050614172557.GA8116@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <20050614172557.GA8116@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <1118774485.19210.140.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 13:25 -0400, C. Megan Larko wrote: > The package zlib1g-dev - compression library - development > will provide the file /usr/include/zlib.h > > I used the trial and error approach. Install a pkg or > two and see if the file turns up. > > megan Next time you are looking for which package supplies which file goto: scroll down to: "Search the contents of packages" enter in what to search for in this case /usr/include/zlib.h adjust what to search for, if required Click the search button and there is/are the package(s) listed that supply that feature. In this case -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From hil at hiltech.com Tue Jun 14 17:16:29 2005 From: hil at hiltech.com (Harry Lipkind) Date: Tue Jun 14 18:49:22 2005 Subject: [novalug] RAID driver Message-ID: <2015.66.149.102.205.1118783789.squirrel@webmail1.hrnoc.net> Hi I am trying to generate a driver(s) for a RAID controller for Novells Linux Desktop (NLD9) for both 32 and 64 bit operation. I have the open source "source" code and am willing to build a driver myself. I am not a Linux "virgin" but I am not an "old hand". I have pushed bytes and nibbles (1/2 a byte) around years ago so I understand compilation and linking. To make things a bit more interesting the 64 bit system is an AMD Athlon, the 32 bit is Intel. I have both systems installed with standard IDE drives so I expect I should be able to generate things fairly easily. I am also the root user. I have done a full installation with the exception of a few files (such as sendfax) that would have conflicted with other files that got installed. It would help greatly if someone could specify where I should park the source code and what directory I should work from. There is a driver for Suse Linux Enterprise Server 9 (SLES9) but it doesn't support NLD. Thanks in advance Harry From malkajef at orthohelp.com Tue Jun 14 20:16:42 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Tue Jun 14 21:13:36 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies References: <200506141600.j5EG07pW000830@gwyn.tux.org> Message-ID: <002901c5713f$c2ca66d0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Thank you all for taking the time to advise a newbie. I greatly appreciate it, and thanks David for remembering. I remember you too. It ended up being between, SUSE, Ubantu or Mepis for me and I went with the latest Mepis simply because one of my daughters downloaded it for me. I'll probably try some others later. Thanks again everyone. Jeff Malka --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-1, 06/14/2005 Tested on: 6/14/2005 8:18:32 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Tue Jun 14 21:29:58 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Tue Jun 14 21:56:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] RAID driver In-Reply-To: <2015.66.149.102.205.1118783789.squirrel@webmail1.hrnoc.net> Message-ID: <20050615012958.815.qmail@web61023.mail.yahoo.com> --- Harry Lipkind wrote: > It would help greatly if someone could specify where > I should park the > source code and what directory I should work from. It doesn't matter too much where you work with the source code if the Makefile is set up correctly, but the customary directory is /usr/src/ or somewhere within that branch of the filesystem. -Ben __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html From Rich.Goodwin at cox.net Tue Jun 14 21:07:37 2005 From: Rich.Goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin) Date: Tue Jun 14 22:45:41 2005 Subject: [novalug] Boot CD in Spanish - for grammar school??? Message-ID: <1118797657.13299.15.camel@tuxtop.site> I am working with my son's grammar school on Linux things for next year (hey - this "year" ended today so we are ACTUALLY planning!!!) One teacher that peaked my interest is the Spanish teacher. She is really interested in tools for her class. She does not care if it is Linux or Windows based - as long as it helps. I found a Spanish boot disk call GPUL. But based on its name (Grupo de Programadores y Usuarios de Linux) and my limited Spanish - I get that this is more oriented for a programmer-type user (I infer a more experienced coder - something beyond KTurtle!). I will boot it and see but in the meantime..... So, my basic question is - what, if any boot distro(s) are there in Spanish? Any targeted for grammar school kids (K-8)?? Rich -- Key fingerprint = 8BF9 990D 8853 5CD8 AB44 8F48 7BC8 5D4B 1B25 7AEC Remember, all Windows-based machines are, by definition, fault tolerant. They run Windows don't they?!?!?!? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050614/ab25ffbf/attachment.bin From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Tue Jun 14 23:05:24 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Tue Jun 14 23:04:56 2005 Subject: [novalug] Boot CD in Spanish - for grammar school??? In-Reply-To: <1118797657.13299.15.camel@tuxtop.site> References: <1118797657.13299.15.camel@tuxtop.site> Message-ID: <200506142305.24453.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Tue June 14 2005 9:07 pm, Rich Goodwin wrote: > I am working with my son's grammar school on Linux things for next > year (hey - this "year" ended today so we are ACTUALLY planning!!!) > > One teacher that peaked my interest is the Spanish teacher. She is > really interested in tools for her class. She does not care if it is > Linux or Windows based - as long as it helps. I found a Spanish boot > disk call GPUL. But based on its name (Grupo de Programadores y > Usuarios de Linux) and my limited Spanish - I get that this is more > oriented for a programmer-type user (I infer a more experienced coder > - something beyond KTurtle!). I will boot it and see but in the > meantime..... > > So, my basic question is - what, if any boot distro(s) are there in > Spanish? Any targeted for grammar school kids (K-8)?? > > Rich You can set the language to Spanish on just about any distribution I know of. Is that the kind of thing you're looking for? Just remember, if you do that, you'll need a different keyboard because there some extra characters to deal with. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Wed Jun 15 12:40:50 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Wed Jun 15 13:08:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: <002901c5713f$c2ca66d0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Jeff Malka wrote: > Thank you all for taking the time to advise a newbie. This list is tops for that, isn't it? > It ended up being between, SUSE, Ubantu or Mepis for me and I went > with the latest Mepis simply because one of my daughters downloaded > it for me. I'll probably try some others later. Please report when ready. I'm beginning to tire of keeping up with Fedora, and need maximal newbie-friendliness. -- Beartooth Implacable, neo-redneck, linux evangelist FC1-3, YDL 4.0 -- and, alas!, XP for GPS/maps Pine 4.63; Pan 0.14.2; Privoxy 3.0.3 Dillo 0.8, Opera 8.0, Firefox 1.0.4 Bear in mind that I have little idea what I am talking about. From dougtoppin at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 16:25:04 2005 From: dougtoppin at gmail.com (Doug Toppin) Date: Wed Jun 15 16:25:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] annoying printer cups mime.types octet-stream problem Message-ID: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> I'm having trouble with my FC3 cups (Version: 1.1.22 Release: 0.rc1.8.5) and the /etc/cups/mime.types file changing if the printer goes offline (either due to a paper jam or out of paper). The file appears to be replaced with some default file (which has the following line commented out which messes up sharing with windows): application/octet-stream The following post describes the same problem (with no follow-up answers): http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=54915&highlight=cups If anyone knows how to 'fix' this please let me know. I've had no luck finding what is doing this. I know that it has something to do with a global mime types definition but I haven't figured out how to do anything about it yet. If you have this happen to you, you can probably fix it by either editing the file or running /usr/bin/system-config-printer-gui, selecting the printer, edit, and enable sharing again and then check the mime.types file. Doug From nick at mrtizmo.com Wed Jun 15 16:06:37 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Wed Jun 15 16:28:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: References: <002901c5713f$c2ca66d0$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <55188.66.171.38.4.1118865997.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On Wed, June 15, 2005 12:40, Beartooth said: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Jeff Malka wrote: > >> It ended up being between, SUSE, Ubantu or Mepis for me and I went >> with the latest Mepis simply because one of my daughters downloaded >> it for me. I'll probably try some others later. > > Please report when ready. I'm beginning to tire of keeping up > with Fedora, and need maximal newbie-friendliness. Beartooth, maybe you should try a different distro and the two of you can compare notes??? It would be good to have distro comparisons from a newbie perspective. Nick >-- > Beartooth Implacable, neo-redneck, linux evangelist > FC1-3, YDL 4.0 -- and, alas!, XP for GPS/maps > Pine 4.63; Pan 0.14.2; Privoxy 3.0.3 > Dillo 0.8, Opera 8.0, Firefox 1.0.4 > Bear in mind that I have little idea what I am talking about. > From tom at infoether.com Wed Jun 15 16:05:59 2005 From: tom at infoether.com (Tom Copeland) Date: Wed Jun 15 16:30:29 2005 Subject: [novalug] Upgrading to Fedora Core 4 Message-ID: <1118865959.10249.5.camel@hal> Hi all - Just some anecdotal evidence on FC4 - I've upgraded two FC3 machines so far. One had no hitches; with the other, I had to put disc 1 back in to get the kernel-devel RPM installed before I could recompile the madwifi driver to get my wireless card working again. I also attempted an upgrade from a RedHat 9 machine just for grins... but on reboot it hangs while attempting to start up NFS. But that would have been a pretty impressive leap to make - 2.4 -> 2.6, etc. Yours, tom From malkajef at orthohelp.com Wed Jun 15 16:27:27 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Wed Jun 15 16:36:43 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member - Mepis References: Message-ID: <003801c571e9$f1346a70$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> What I can tell you is that Mepis booted up right out of the CD. Install was the easiest I have seen. It has a full set of all sorts of applications all of which work (except for something about checking weather). So far, I highly recommend it especially for newbie friendliness. Jeff Malka Beartooth wrote: > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Jeff Malka wrote: > >> Thank you all for taking the time to advise a newbie. > > This list is tops for that, isn't it? > >> It ended up being between, SUSE, Ubantu or Mepis for me and I went >> with the latest Mepis simply because one of my daughters downloaded >> it for me. I'll probably try some others later. > > Please report when ready. I'm beginning to tire of keeping up > with Fedora, and need maximal newbie-friendliness. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-2, 06/15/2005 Tested on: 6/15/2005 4:36:45 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Wed Jun 15 17:14:15 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Wed Jun 15 17:14:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: <55188.66.171.38.4.1118865997.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Nick Davis wrote: > Beartooth, maybe you should try a different distro and the two of > you can compare notes??? > > It would be good to have distro comparisons from a newbie > perspective. That's a distinct point -- and God knows I owe the community in general and this list in particular, big time. Actually, if I have a short list at all yet, it'd have to be RHEL -- if I can run half a dozen home machines on one license ... Btw, I note that FC4 has been ported to PPC. If that's doable by the likes of me, I could replace YDL 4 (ported from FC2) on Jo's G3 iBook with the same distro as (eventually) all our PCs. That would be a convenience. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov Wed Jun 15 16:59:28 2005 From: megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov (C. Megan Larko) Date: Wed Jun 15 17:18:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] annoying printer cups mime.types octet-stream problem In-Reply-To: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> References: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050615205928.GA15496@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Hi Doug, Sleazy trick. As root make the file "immutable". This means that absolutely nothing, not even root may change it. I had a laptop that would always loose its /etc/X11/xorg.conf file because a very specialized driver for the video card was not loaded until the end of boot via /etc/rc.d/rc.local (FC2). The machine, not knowing what to do with the video card would go back to 800x600 and not GUI options to change it after the boot up procedure was complete. (The card can actually do 1600x14??. I prefer 1280x1024 mode personally.) My solution was to not allow the boot-up procedure to change the file (and have a back-up file) by entering "chattr +i xorg.conf". The only way in which the file may be edited is to undo it: "chattr -i xorg.conf". NOTICE: I have never seen an ls option nor a "file" query that will tell you immutable is set on. If it is not set on, then the chattr -i will only tell you that it was not set on for that file. Therefore on the one or two files for which I have used this as a sysadmin, I guess. If the file /etc/cups/mime.types *must* be changed during boot up, then cups will fail to start and you will see an error message leading you to the program that is actually making changes. I do completely realize that this is not "solving" the problem but "avoiding" the problem. IMHO sometimes kludgy is okay. megan On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:25:04PM -0400, Doug Toppin wrote: > I'm having trouble with my FC3 cups (Version: 1.1.22 Release: 0.rc1.8.5) > and the /etc/cups/mime.types file changing if the printer goes offline > (either due to a paper jam or out of paper). > The file appears to be replaced with some default file (which has the > following line commented out which messes up sharing with windows): > application/octet-stream > > The following post describes the same problem (with no follow-up answers): > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=54915&highlight=cups > > If anyone knows how to 'fix' this please let me know. > I've had no luck finding what is doing this. I know that it has > something to do with a global mime types definition but I haven't > figured out how to do anything about it yet. > > If you have this happen to you, you can probably fix it by either > editing the file or running /usr/bin/system-config-printer-gui, > selecting the printer, edit, and enable sharing again and then > check the mime.types file. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "God, grant me the serenity to prioritize the things I cannot delegate, courage to say no when I need to, and wisdom to know when to go home." -Plagiarized from an unknown source ----------------------------------------------------------------- C. Megan Larko Laboratory for Hydrospheric Sciences Code 614.3 Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 17:39:11 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Wed Jun 15 18:06:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Open-Xchange and SLOX from Novell Message-ID: <20050615213912.9931.qmail@web61020.mail.yahoo.com> Does anybody out there use this in their place of business or support a business that uses it? I'm talking about Netline's Open-XChange (commercial product or free version) or Novell's version based on Suse. Also, does anybody have the inside track on whether or not Novell plans on keeping the SLOX product alive, or whether it will get dumped in favor of their other groupware offerings? -Ben __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ From email at jasonkohles.com Wed Jun 15 18:16:10 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Wed Jun 15 18:16:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] annoying printer cups mime.types octet-stream problem In-Reply-To: <20050615205928.GA15496@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> <20050615205928.GA15496@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <20050615221610.GA1355@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 04:59:28PM -0400, C. Megan Larko wrote: > > NOTICE: I have never seen an ls option nor a "file" query that > will tell you immutable is set on. If it is not set on, then the > chattr -i will only tell you that it was not set on for that file. > Therefore on the one or two files for which I have used this as > a sysadmin, I guess. > lsattr will list the attributes for a file. -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From malkajef at orthohelp.com Wed Jun 15 20:01:03 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Wed Jun 15 21:28:07 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? Message-ID: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Hi guys I've successfully installed Linux on two laptops. I would like to now remove it from one of the two laptops where it is installed as a dual boot with XP-SP2. I assume I can just delete the Linux partitions, but how do I remove he grub installed in the mbr? Is there a way to do this through Linux itself? I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition but restoring from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to proceed. Any help appreciated. Jeff Malka --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 Tested on: 6/15/2005 8:02:10 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From franklinux392 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 15 21:13:27 2005 From: franklinux392 at yahoo.com (Frank S.) Date: Wed Jun 15 21:40:15 2005 Subject: [novalug] ATI drivers Message-ID: <20050616011327.76917.qmail@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Hi: I have a randeon x700 pro (pci-Expres) and i whant to set the 3D mode on. I'm using Suse 9.3 how can I do that. Thank you very much Frank --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050615/b6b06d6a/attachment.html From nick at mrtizmo.com Wed Jun 15 23:37:49 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Wed Jun 15 23:37:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? In-Reply-To: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <32873.66.171.38.4.1118893069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> If you want that /mbr to now be the windows boot loader, you can format it from windows and have windows write it's boot loader there. You shouldn't have to actually delete it first. Although there is another trick you can do. From within linux put windows as your only boot option, then set the boot delay to 0, then write the lilo changes to the /mbr. This will make the system work as if grup wasn't there.. it will just jump right to windows. HTH's Nick Davis On Wed, June 15, 2005 20:01, Jeff Malka said: > Hi guys > > I've successfully installed Linux on two laptops. I would like to now remove > it from one of the two laptops where it is installed as a dual boot with > XP-SP2. I assume I can just delete the Linux partitions, but how do I > remove he grub installed in the mbr? Is there a way to do this through > Linux itself? I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition but restoring > from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to proceed. Any > help appreciated. > > Jeff Malka > > > > > > --- > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 > Tested on: 6/15/2005 8:02:10 PM > avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. > http://www.avast.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From Rich.Goodwin at cox.net Wed Jun 15 22:16:43 2005 From: Rich.Goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin) Date: Thu Jun 16 00:09:54 2005 Subject: [novalug] External USB/Firewire dual-layer DVD burner?? Message-ID: <1118888203.23655.7.camel@tuxtop.site> I want to get an external dual layer DVD burner .... and came across the LaCie burner at ZipZoomFly.com (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=174713&ps=hw8). Has anyone had any experience with an external DVD burner? My plan is to use it at a family reunion - burn DVDs of the various videos that may be made... I have a 250GB external USB drive but would prefer to have the DVD(s). -- Key fingerprint = 8BF9 990D 8853 5CD8 AB44 8F48 7BC8 5D4B 1B25 7AEC Remember, all Windows-based machines are, by definition, fault tolerant. They run Windows don't they?!?!?!? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20050615/211a794d/attachment.bin From dan_arico at aricosystems.com Wed Jun 15 23:51:52 2005 From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico) Date: Thu Jun 16 00:17:55 2005 Subject: [novalug] ATI drivers In-Reply-To: <20050616011327.76917.qmail@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050616011327.76917.qmail@web54301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200506152351.52946.dan_arico@aricosystems.com> On Wed June 15 2005 9:13 pm, Frank S. wrote: > Hi: > I have a randeon x700 pro (pci-Expres) and i whant to set the 3D mode > on. I'm using Suse 9.3 > how can I do that. > Thank you very much > Frank Bring up yast. Go to hardware and click on the selection for the monitor and graphics card. In the configuration, there's a box to check for 3D. Dan Arico -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them, In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie. From taco.bill at verizon.net Wed Jun 15 23:54:38 2005 From: taco.bill at verizon.net (Bill Squires) Date: Thu Jun 16 00:55:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] annoying printer cups mime.types octet-stream problem In-Reply-To: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> References: <42B08EA0.1050902@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've been annoyed by this exact problem myself. I did a little digging and my guess is that the script /usr/share/printconf/util/ backend.py is run whenever the printer is sensed on the USB port and also when queues are edited. There is a comment in the adjust_mime_types function: "Set or unset 'application/octet-stream' in the mime.types file. It needs to be set if there are any raw queues." This is a clue. Also, look at this thread: http:// forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=20996. Basically, I'm going to try this: 1) Create a raw print queue for the printer. In the printer config tool, create a new queue, select the generic driver and pick raw for the type there. 2) Add the line: "use client driver = yes" to your /etc/samba/ smb.conf file. I haven't tested this yet and I'm going to go to sleep now. :-) Bill Squires On Jun 15, 2005, at 4:25 PM, Doug Toppin wrote: > I'm having trouble with my FC3 cups (Version: 1.1.22 Release: > 0.rc1.8.5) > and the /etc/cups/mime.types file changing if the printer goes offline > (either due to a paper jam or out of paper). > The file appears to be replaced with some default file (which has the > following line commented out which messes up sharing with windows): > application/octet-stream > > The following post describes the same problem (with no follow-up > answers): > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=54915&highlight=cups > > If anyone knows how to 'fix' this please let me know. > I've had no luck finding what is doing this. I know that it has > something to do with a global mime types definition but I haven't > figured out how to do anything about it yet. > > If you have this happen to you, you can probably fix it by either > editing the file or running /usr/bin/system-config-printer-gui, > selecting the printer, edit, and enable sharing again and then > check the mime.types file. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > > > From mstone at mathom.us Thu Jun 16 05:57:50 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Thu Jun 16 06:57:58 2005 Subject: [novalug] External USB/Firewire dual-layer DVD burner?? In-Reply-To: <1118888203.23655.7.camel@tuxtop.site> References: <1118888203.23655.7.camel@tuxtop.site> Message-ID: <20050616095750.GB25854@mathom.us> On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 10:16:43PM -0400, Rich Goodwin wrote: > Has anyone had any experience with an external DVD burner? External devices like cds or dvds or hard disks just work; they'll appear on the system as scsi devices. Mike Stone From jhart at kevla.org Thu Jun 16 07:09:35 2005 From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart) Date: Thu Jun 16 07:36:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] OT: Cell phone services Message-ID: <14299.63.104.174.146.1118920175.squirrel@www.kevla.org> Does anyone know of a website that will allow for comparison shopping of cell phone services from the various vendors? TIA, Jay Hart From nick at hackermonkey.com Thu Jun 16 08:32:33 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Thu Jun 16 08:51:23 2005 Subject: [novalug] Grub issues - CentOS on a VA2230 Message-ID: <42B17161.1090004@hackermonkey.com> Heres a nice grub issue to tax all your brains this morning. I have some old VA 2230s. These are SCSI disk systems based on the Intel (GX?)440 motherboard with an onboard Adaptec (2930? Its the aic7xxx driver) card and one SCSI drive. They have known issues with various bios problems and all kinds of things but between BIOS patching and additions/patches to the kernel, these have been corrected (AFAIK) They were running RedHat 6.2 for a long time, then the 7 series started to show the flaws, and we reloaded them with 7.3 after doing the patching to the BIOS. That was quite a few years ago, and these things chugged along just fine since then. Well, its time to do something about upgrading. I tried loading Fedora Core 1 on these boxes and it would load just fine. No errors. Only GRUB would report "Grub Loading Stage 1.5" and hang. No errors, no disk access, nothing. Just sit there. I could load these via interactive, or even made some Kickstart disks that loaded off the network, all worked without complaint. I chalked it up as a FC1 thing, and when FC3 came, I tried again. As before, no errors, no complaints, but hanging when hitting the grub second stage. Running the rescue CD found no real problems, and I was able to rerun grub-install, or do a grub install from the 'grub>' prompt by hand. Still, no go. Since that time, we've decided that CentOS was the way to go given its much longer release cycle. And guess what? It worked. First install/reboot all is fine. Moved the box around a few times, rebooting and it came up every time. I figured it was a grub thing and forgot about the issue. Into the server room it goes to let people check it out and after about 2 weeks it just rebooted itself. Probably a power issue. But now it hangs at that same place with grub. The CentOS rescue CD shows no problems and I can rerun grub-install without a problem. Anyone have any ideas on this? The 'forget it all' solution for me is to just replace the SCSI with an IDE drive, as Im pretty sure this is disk/scsi related somehow, but I cant find anything on the web that was useful. Most searches complain about the old RH7.x issues, and say to upgrade the bios. I can't find anything recent. Going to keep poking for a bit on it this morning but I was hoping someone had a suggestion on where to look :-) -Nick From Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com Thu Jun 16 09:38:16 2005 From: Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com (Smith, Michael J.) Date: Thu Jun 16 10:31:00 2005 Subject: [novalug] Grub issues - CentOS on a VA2230 Message-ID: Are you running a software raid on the root filesystem and grub doesn't know about it? Offhandedly, I'd look in that direction. I have a Fullon 2230, and with Debian I had to do some weird things to get it to boot right. In the end, I had to use initrd to load up the md modules into the kernel at boot so that it would recognize the boot partition. HTH --Mike Michael J Smith michael.j.smith@unisys.com Information Security Specialist 703.419.3109 W 703.855.0890 C From pereira at speakeasy.net Thu Jun 16 10:42:44 2005 From: pereira at speakeasy.net (Nino Pereira) Date: Thu Jun 16 11:15:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] See 'man 7 undocumented' for help ... Message-ID: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> Hi, in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up on what 'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do man kill I get the message in the subject line. When I then do man 7 the response is: 'What manual page do you want from section 7?', and when I do man 7 undocumented the response is: 'No manual entry for undocumented in section 7' How do I learn about the 'kill' command? Nino -- Nino Pereira Ecopulse From djr1952 at hotpop.com Thu Jun 16 10:45:52 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Thu Jun 16 11:46:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] Grub issues - CentOS on a VA2230 In-Reply-To: <42B17161.1090004@hackermonkey.com> References: <42B17161.1090004@hackermonkey.com> Message-ID: <1118933152.2130.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 08:32 -0400, Nick Danger wrote: > SCSI > onboard Adaptec (2930? Its the aic7xxx > driver) card and one SCSI drive. > I tried loading Fedora Core 1 on these boxes and it would load just > fine. No errors. Only GRUB would report "Grub Loading Stage 1.5" and > hang. No errors, no disk access, nothing. Just sit there. How long did it hang for? Or how long did you wait for it to proceed on? Did you ever see "Error 21" reported? One of the key related pieces of information you didn't give for this type of error is the size of the drive and "boot" partition. Does the SCSI-controller BIOS properly report the size and type of the drive? IOW have you ran the SCSI BIOS('s) drive detection method? > I could load > these via interactive, or even made some Kickstart disks that loaded off > the network, all worked without complaint. By "interactive" what do you mean? Did you boot from a floppy and the load the "kernel" from the SCSI-drive? Where did you boot the "kickstart" disks{setup} from? -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 11:35:52 2005 From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz) Date: Thu Jun 16 12:02:39 2005 Subject: [novalug] See 'man 7 undocumented' for help ... In-Reply-To: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> Message-ID: <20050616153552.85201.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com> --- Nino Pereira wrote: > Hi, > > in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up > on what > 'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do > > man kill > > I get the message in the subject line. When I then > do > > man 7 > > the response is: 'What manual page do you want from > section 7?', > and when I do > > man 7 undocumented > > the response is: 'No manual entry for undocumented > in section 7' > > How do I learn about the 'kill' command? Nino, normally you could just type 'man kill.' kill should come up in section 1 of the manpages. Since that isn't working, try man 1 kill or man -S1 kill Maybe some of your man pages got deleted, or maybe /etc/man.config got screwed up so that section 1 isn't searched by default. In the meantime, if going straight to section 1 doesn't work, there are lots of HTML versions of the man pages available on the web. -Ben __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chris at linux-dr.net Thu Jun 16 12:05:19 2005 From: chris at linux-dr.net (Chris Gordon) Date: Thu Jun 16 12:22:13 2005 Subject: [novalug] See 'man 7 undocumented' for help ... In-Reply-To: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> References: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> Message-ID: <20050616160519.GA32733@goblin.theory14.net> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:42:44AM -0400, Nino Pereira wrote: > Hi, > > in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up on what > 'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do > > man kill > > I get the message in the subject line. When I then do > > man 7 > > the response is: 'What manual page do you want from section 7?', > and when I do > > man 7 undocumented > > the response is: 'No manual entry for undocumented in section 7' > > How do I learn about the 'kill' command? Sounds like there is either something missing from your system or something else wrong. "man kill" brings up the man page just fine here. Chris From djr1952 at hotpop.com Thu Jun 16 11:59:01 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Thu Jun 16 12:59:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] See 'man 7 undocumented' for help ... In-Reply-To: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> References: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> Message-ID: <1118937542.2135.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 10:42 -0400, Nino Pereira wrote: > Hi, > > in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up on what > 'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do > > man kill > > I get the message in the subject line. When I then do > > man 7 > > the response is: 'What manual page do you want from section 7?', > and when I do > > man 7 undocumented > > the response is: 'No manual entry for undocumented in section 7' > > How do I learn about the 'kill' command? > > Nino > What distribution? On both my Debian and Red Hat setups I get: $ man kill KILL(1) Linux User's Manual KILL(1) NAME kill - send a signal to a process SYNOPSIS kill [ -signal | -s signal ] pid ... kill [ -L | -V, --version ] kill -l [ signal ] DESCRIPTION The default signal for kill is TERM. Use -l or -L to list available IOW you got an installation error of some kind. On Red Hat the man pages is part of the util-linux package. For Debian it's part of the procps package. and alternate language packages for other languages. Or you could go on the Internet and search for "man kill" about 16,400,000 hits o which the first five(5) look like references to man pages. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From dougtoppin at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 13:03:42 2005 From: dougtoppin at gmail.com (Doug Toppin) Date: Thu Jun 16 13:03:47 2005 Subject: [novalug] synergy - share a single mouse and keyboard between multiple computers Message-ID: <42B1B0EE.8080904@gmail.com> I recently started using a tool called synergy. It lets you share a single mouse/kbd between multiple machines so that you can slide your mouse from one display to another. cut/paste also works across machines. All you have to do is setup a configuration file that lists the participating machines and the orientation of your displays and then run a server on the machine with the kbd/mouse you're going to use and clients on the other machines. More at: http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ You still need to be able to see the other machine displays but you don't have to make desktop space for the additional kbd/mouse. I am running a server on Linux and a client on WindowsXP with no trouble at all. Doug From charliebiggar at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 12:44:48 2005 From: charliebiggar at yahoo.com (Charlie Biggar) Date: Thu Jun 16 13:11:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: see 'man 7 undocumented' Message-ID: <20050616164448.66047.qmail@web51106.mail.yahoo.com> > >Hi, > >in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up on what >'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do > >man kill > >I get the message in the subject line. When I then do > >man 7 > >the response is: 'What manual page do you want from section 7?', >and when I do > >man 7 undocumented > >the response is: 'No manual entry for undocumented in section 7' > >How do I learn about the 'kill' command? > >Nino Nino - I see two problems: - Syntax for the man command. If you're supposed to go to a specific section for a command, the syntax is "man -s
", e.g. man -s 1 kill - At least in Solaris, there is no section 7 entry for man. Not sure how you got pointed there? oracle: man -s 7 kill No entry for kill in section(s) 7 of the manual. I guess you'll have to go back to whoever pointed you to "kill (7)" and ask why there, and not section 1. kill: the syntax is simple and the results can be dramatic. Be careful. HTH Charlie B. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From malkajef at orthohelp.com Thu Jun 16 14:23:28 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Thu Jun 16 14:24:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: novalug Digest, Vol 13, Issue 19 References: <200506161602.j5GG17qq019405@gwyn.tux.org> Message-ID: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> > Although there is another trick you can do. From within linux put > windows as your only > boot option, then set the boot delay to 0, then write the lilo > changes to the /mbr. > This will make the system work as if grup wasn't there.. it will just > jump right to > windows. Actually I was thinking of doing that on my own, figuring it "should" work. The live Linux distribution CDs are an excellent idea for those who wish to try Linux distributions. There is one major annoyance if one decides to install the distribution and try it that way: Grub on the mbr is a real pain to get rid of if one needs to. That is because apparently the way to get rid of it is to run the XP recovery CD and tell it to "fixmbr". Should be a simple matter except that today most people get their XP pre-installed and the OEM recovery CD will often ONLY allow you to restore EVERYTHING to factory state, not "repair" and fix the mbr. That was the case in both my laptops (different brands) recovery CDs. The hunt for a full (non-oem) XP installation CD can be a major headache since most of your friends also only have oem recovery CDs that will not work on your laptop and are probably similarly limited. A good-will measure on the part of Linux installation routines, would be to backup (if possible) the original mbr it finds BEFORE overwriting it with grub so that it can be restored should the user decide to go back to Windows. A nice touch if technically feasible. Just a suggestion. Mepis continues to work well on both laptops. On the Dell laptop, I have to figure out how to make it recognize the higher resolution screen. The options available to me within Mepis do not go as high as the 1200 x whatever the dell screen can so on that laptop the Mepis desktop does not fill the entire screen. More studying to do :-) Jeff Malka > From: "Nick Davis" > Subject: Re: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? > > If you want that /mbr to now be the windows boot loader, you can > format it from > windows and have windows write it's boot loader there. You shouldn't > have to actually > delete it first. > > Although there is another trick you can do. From within linux put > windows as your only > boot option, then set the boot delay to 0, then write the lilo > changes to the /mbr. > This will make the system work as if grup wasn't there.. it will just > jump right to > windows. > --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-2, 06/15/2005 Tested on: 6/16/2005 2:24:16 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From djr1952 at hotpop.com Thu Jun 16 16:03:49 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Thu Jun 16 16:04:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: see 'man 7 undocumented' In-Reply-To: <20050616164448.66047.qmail@web51106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050616164448.66047.qmail@web51106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1118952230.2131.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 09:44 -0700, Charlie Biggar wrote: > I see two problems: > - Syntax for the man command. If you're supposed to go to a specific section > for a command, the syntax is "man -s
", e.g. > > man -s 1 kill On most version of 'man' the '-s' parameter is optional and therefor not required. > - At least in Solaris, there is no section 7 entry for man. Not sure how you > got pointed there? Well under Debian and Red Hat GNU/Linux {and also FreeBSD} the sections or layed out as follows: 1 Executable programs or shell commands 2 System calls (functions provided by the kernel) 3 Library calls (functions within program libraries) 4 Special files (usually found in /dev) 5 File formats and conventions eg /etc/passwd 6 Games *** 7 Miscellaneous (including macro packages and conven- tions), e.g. man(7), groff(7) 8 System administration commands (usually only for root) 9 Kernel routines [Non standard] Also have a look at "UNIX ON-LINE Man Pages" and you will see almost the same list of sections. On most Debian based distributions when you send a request of: man {section number} name as in for example: man 7 kill You get the following two lines of output: No manual entry for kill in section 7 See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available. If you then do: man 7 undocumented You will get a manpage that starts off with the following: UNDOCUMENTED(7) Linux Programmer's Manual UNDOCUMENTED(7) NAME undocumented - No manpage for this program, utility or function. DESCRIPTION This program, utility or function does not have a useful manpage. Before opening a bug to report this, please check with the Debian Bug Tracking System (BTS) at if a bug has already been reported. If not, you can submit a wishlist bug if you want. The above should explain more of what the original poster to this thread was requesting help with. Also on both Debian, Red Hat and FreeBSD for 'man 7 man' you get close to the following links output: So I think that in this case it's your system and/or "Solaris" based systems in general that are missing a section. -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From email at jasonkohles.com Thu Jun 16 16:13:06 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Thu Jun 16 16:13:18 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: novalug Digest, Vol 13, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <200506161602.j5GG17qq019405@gwyn.tux.org> <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <20050616201305.GA18674@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 02:23:28PM -0400, Jeff Malka wrote: > > A good-will measure on the part of Linux installation routines, would be to > backup (if possible) the original mbr it finds BEFORE overwriting it with > grub so that it can be restored should the user decide to go back to > Windows. A nice touch if technically feasible. > It's not only feasible, it's easy (and some distributions do it already). If you are installing a system for testing, and have the option of grub or lilo, you can pick lilo. When lilo starts up if there is not a backup of the MBR already existing, it creates one, which you can restore later by running 'lilo -u'. I know YaST has options for backing up and restoring the MBR, though I've never used it. Long ago I considered creating a bootable floppy that would give you options to save or restore the MBR. Boot from the floppy, pick save, do your testing, if things get fouled up, boot from the floppy and pick restore. A single floppy has more than enough space to store a tiny bootable linux install and a couple of MBR backups. But it's easy enough to backup that I've never bothered to actually build that. To backup your MBR: * Boot from a rescue CD * Find somewhere to store the backup (floppy, usb drive, directory on the hard drive, whatever) * mkfs.ext2 /dev/fd0 * mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy * dd a copy of the MBR over dd if=/dev/hda of=/mnt/floppy/mbr-backup bs=512 count=1 To restore, boot from the rescue cd again, mount the directory with your backup, and run dd dd if=/mnt/floppy/mbr-backup of=/dev/hda With a sufficiently featured rescue cd, you can even backup over the network. This is what I do to keep backups of the MBR for my development systems, I added a couple of little scripts to my rescue cd... #!/bin/sh # backup-mbr.sh BU=/backups/mbr/`hostname`/`date +"%F_%T"` dd if=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 | ssh backups@devserv "cat - > $BU" #!/bin/sh # restore-mbr.sh BU=/backups/mbr/`hostname`/ MBR=`ssh backups@devserv "ls -rt1 $BU | head -1"` ssh backups@devserv "cat $MBR" | dd of=/dev/sda Be aware though that the first 512 bytes of the disk contain both the MBR and the partition table, if you backup, change partition sizes, and then restore, you may not like the results. In this case you can try restoring only the first 446 bytes, but I'm not sure that this will always work either. -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From nick at hackermonkey.com Thu Jun 16 17:59:10 2005 From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger) Date: Thu Jun 16 17:59:17 2005 Subject: [novalug] Grub issues - CentOS on a VA2230 In-Reply-To: <1118933152.2130.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42B17161.1090004@hackermonkey.com> <1118933152.2130.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <42B1F62E.30902@hackermonkey.com> donjr wrote: >How long did it hang for? >Or how long did you wait for it to proceed on? > > Indefinately. If I leave it there for a week, it'll sit there for a week. >Did you ever see "Error 21" reported? > > No. Simply the loading grub stage 1.5 message. No errors. I dont have the exact syntax of the last loading message as I didn't write it down. Since it wasn't an error, but something that shows up on everyones box when they load grub, I didnt think it critical. >One of the key related pieces of information you didn't give for this >type of error is the size of the drive and "boot" partition. > >Does the SCSI-controller BIOS properly report the size and type of the >drive? > IOW have you ran the SCSI BIOS('s) drive detection method? > > SCSI reports the drive just fine. It gives the model/vendor and all that info. I can reformat the disk and do all the fun SCSI bios things. Boot partition is 100M. First partition on disk. ext3. >By "interactive" what do you mean? >Did you boot from a floppy and the load the "kernel" from the >SCSI-drive? > >Where did you boot the "kickstart" disks{setup} from? > > Interactive = me typing at the anaconda prompts to select how to partition the disk and what to load on the box. The kickstart I did from a burned CD, basically CD #1 with the kickstart option in the bootloader, and the kickstart.cfg file also on the cd. Makes for a fast non-interactive reload of the box. -Nick From dsl at zai.com Thu Jun 16 19:14:14 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Thu Jun 16 19:14:29 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? In-Reply-To: <32873.66.171.38.4.1118893069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> References: <32873.66.171.38.4.1118893069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: <42B207C6.70901@zai.com> Nick, Your trick of changing lilo will only work until the /boot/map file is overwritten. If Jeff want to return the disk partition to Windows there will be a problem sooner or later. A sure way to fix the mbr is to use the XP install disk and follow Microsoft's instructions: http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/bootcons_fixmbr.mspx or http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-6036.html Another issue is how to return the Linux partition to Windows. This can simply be done by deleting the partitions with fdisk. Deleting a windows or dos partition also requires overwriting the first sector of the partition with zeros. Dave Nick Davis wrote: > If you want that /mbr to now be the windows boot loader, you can format it from > windows and have windows write it's boot loader there. You shouldn't have to actually > delete it first. > > Although there is another trick you can do. From within linux put windows as your only > boot option, then set the boot delay to 0, then write the lilo changes to the /mbr. > This will make the system work as if grup wasn't there.. it will just jump right to > windows. > > > HTH's > > Nick Davis > > On Wed, June 15, 2005 20:01, Jeff Malka said: >>Hi guys >> >>I've successfully installed Linux on two laptops. I would like to now remove >>it from one of the two laptops where it is installed as a dual boot with >>XP-SP2. I assume I can just delete the Linux partitions, but how do I >>remove he grub installed in the mbr? Is there a way to do this through >>Linux itself? I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition but restoring >>from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to proceed. Any >>help appreciated. >> >>Jeff Malka >> >> >> >> >> >>--- >>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. >>Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 >>Tested on: 6/15/2005 8:02:10 PM >>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. >>http://www.avast.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>novalug mailing list >>novalug@tux.org >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > > From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Thu Jun 16 19:04:46 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Thu Jun 16 19:58:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: <1118943359.6075.4.camel@hkx2.secretsauce.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Marc Wehmeyer wrote: > Check out http://www.whiteboxlinux.org for a license-unencumbered > RHEL-based distro. [....] > Anyone have any experience with WHEL? Or especially able to compare it with CentOS?? -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From djr1952 at hotpop.com Thu Jun 16 20:05:25 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Thu Jun 16 20:05:33 2005 Subject: [novalug] Grub issues - CentOS on a VA2230 In-Reply-To: <42B1F62E.30902@hackermonkey.com> References: <42B17161.1090004@hackermonkey.com> <1118933152.2130.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <42B1F62E.30902@hackermonkey.com> Message-ID: <1118966725.2131.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-06-16 at 17:59 -0400, Nick Danger wrote: > donjr wrote: > > >How long did it hang for? > >Or how long did you wait for it to proceed on? > > > > Indefinately. If I leave it there for a week, it'll sit there for a week. In other words (IOW) Grub just stops at this point? > >Did you ever see "Error 21" reported? > > > > > > No. Simply the loading grub stage 1.5 message. No errors. I dont have > the exact syntax of the last loading message as I didn't write it down. > Since it wasn't an error, but something that shows up on everyones box > when they load grub, I didnt think it critical. "Error 21" is an error message that Grub normally prints to the screen when it fails to find/load the "stage 1.5" file. For some as of yet unknown reason it doesn't seem to be getting that far. > >One of the key related pieces of information you didn't give for this > >type of error is the size of the drive and "boot" partition. > > > >Does the SCSI-controller BIOS properly report the size and type of the > >drive? > > IOW have you ran the SCSI BIOS('s) drive detection method? > > > > > > SCSI reports the drive just fine. It gives the model/vendor and all that > info. I can reformat the disk and do all the fun SCSI bios things. Boot > partition is 100M. First partition on disk. ext3. Not a giant size disk by any means/count. I though because of the SCSI reference you where talking about a 100+ Gig or larger drive, shoot my desktop has a 170+ Gig drive in it. My "boot" partition, with an alternate recovery system included is 1 Gig {1024 meg} in size alone. (The smallest drive I'm currently using is 1 Gig and that's in a machine who's only propose is as a Firewall for my network.) { A 100M, shoot the "tmpfs" ramdisk on my portable is over 5000M by itself.} > >By "interactive" what do you mean? > >Did you boot from a floppy and the load the "kernel" from the > >SCSI-drive? > > > >Where did you boot the "kickstart" disks{setup} from? > > > > > > Interactive = me typing at the anaconda prompts to select how to > partition the disk and what to load on the box. The kickstart I did from > a burned CD, basically CD #1 with the kickstart option in the > bootloader, and the kickstart.cfg file also on the cd. Makes for a fast > non-interactive reload of the box. > > -Nick IOW you have never once Booted an installed system, correct? You have been just tried REINSTALLING again after a "Grub Failure". Have you ever tried using a Floppy or other alternate boot to get an installed system up and running? So that you could at least check it out and possible try and fix the problem from the running system? -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. $ /usr/games/fortune : You will obey or molten silver will be poured into your ears. From mwehmeyer at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 13:35:59 2005 From: mwehmeyer at gmail.com (Marc Wehmeyer) Date: Thu Jun 16 21:26:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1118943359.6075.4.camel@hkx2.secretsauce.org> On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 14:14 -0700, Beartooth wrote: > Actually, if I have a short list at all yet, it'd have to be > RHEL -- if I can run half a dozen home machines on one license ... > Check out http://www.whiteboxlinux.org for a license-unencumbered RHEL-based distro. >From their website: What is the goal for White Box Linux? To provide an unencumbered RPM based Linux distribution that retains enough compatibility with Red Hat Linux to allow easy upgrades and to retain compatibility with their Errata srpms. Anyone have any experience with WHEL? Marc From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Thu Jun 16 21:47:16 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Thu Jun 16 22:32:26 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? In-Reply-To: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42B22BA4.60307@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Jeff Malka wrote: > Hi guys > > I've successfully installed Linux on two laptops. I would like to now > remove it from one of the two laptops where it is installed as a dual > boot with XP-SP2. I assume I can just delete the Linux partitions, but > how do I remove he grub installed in the mbr? Your question confuses me a little bit. I'm not sure what you're trying to do - have a 100% WinXP laptop that used to be dual boot, or just clean out the harddrive because you want to get rid of the laptop? In the latter case - the boot loader really doesn't matter. If you want to install the DOS boot loader, it's easy. "fdisk /mbr" from the command line, once booted into XP - and you're done - no need to delete any DOS partitions. Your system will boot to the active partition (so remember to set your DOS/XP partition as active). fdisk /mbr will overwrite 0/0/0 and do the normal uncontrollable DOS/XP load. If you install any other boot-loader, lilo etc., they will overwrite MBR. The fdisk /mbr basicly "restores" the MBR for Windows - and preserves everything else. > Is there a way to do this > through Linux itself? Not unless you saved the old content. Linux doesn't really care about what other systems uses it for. And if Linux was the first OS you installed on the laptop, there wouldn't be anything to save anyway. So basicly, dual boot to XP, fix the MBR from XP/DOS and remove the Linux partitions using Window's DiskManager. And you'll be all set running 100% windows. If you want to kill your drive content, do a low-level format - basicly the only thing that's guarenteed to write over 0/0/0. But since there's really not much value in the MBR other than to pass on control to the real boot loader there might not be much point if all you want to do is clean up the box. Any Windows install will automaticly run the fdisk/mbr anyway. > I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition > but restoring from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to > proceed. Any help appreciated Excatly. Most disk tools will only effect partitions - not MBR. You need to use the fdisk or the grub tools to write to 0/0/0. Good luck Peter Larsen From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Thu Jun 16 22:37:24 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Thu Jun 16 22:37:32 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to limit login attempts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B23764.1010706@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Todd Hakala wrote: > This probably falls under Linux Security 101, but... > > I have a RH7 box (yeah, it's old, but it works!) that is coming under > login attack usually on weekends at night. Looking through /var/log/ > messages, the attacks come from one IP address and, judging by the > login names in the attempts, appears to be a script-kiddie. The IP > address is constant for a night, then it will change during the next > attack attempt. Check out pam_tally.so (http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/pam-list/2004-10/0046.html explains a bit). You might have a few hickups on your old system, but basicly PAM is where you control this. I had to look a little, because I didn't know about the tally module. Remember - when you play with pam to have physcal access to your box. A small mistake, and you can have locked everyone, including root, out. > The attacks are tried on FTP and SSH. I can't turn either of these > services off, because it is an FTP server for clients, and I need to > SSH into it for remote admin stuff. Basicly, PAM works on whatever module you set it up for. You can ask it to do things differently per program, or the same. What you need to look into is locking the account automaticly. That's fairly simple - the problem is when the lazy admin prefers NOT to be bugged by 10-15 users a day that can't remember simple passwords and the admin tries to automatilcy unlock accounts after a waiting period. You'll find /var/log/faillog contains information you can use to investigate crazy stuff like that - pam won't do things like that. But it will lock the account. > How do I put a limit on login attempts? I would like to set the number > of tries to 5, and perhaps temporarily ban the failing requesting IP > for 5 or 10 minutes. What I don't want to do is lock out an account > that would require a reset by a sysadmin, because some > not-so-technically-inclined clients are trying to use this server 24/7. To allow/disallow access from IPs etc. look at /etc/security/limits - the pam module pam_limits.so uses this information to restrict access based on time, ulimit etc. But as I mentioned above, pam will not do things "temporarily". It's a permanent ban. Be careful and not look at "max login attempts" etc. because they are just session based. And you can't really stop ppl from trying - put a banner on ssh and ftp informing the user, that his IP etc. are logged and attempts etc. are subject for investigation. > I looked around with Google, the man pages for login and ssh, but can't > find anything that tells me how to do this. Is this even possible? I hope the above gets you started ..... Regards Peter Larsen From nick at mrtizmo.com Thu Jun 16 22:49:34 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Thu Jun 16 22:49:37 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? In-Reply-To: <42B207C6.70901@zai.com> References: <32873.66.171.38.4.1118893069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> <42B207C6.70901@zai.com> Message-ID: <53181.66.171.38.4.1118976574.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Thank you for the correction and details! Nick Davis On Thu, June 16, 2005 19:14, David Lerner said: > Nick, > > Your trick of changing lilo will only work until the /boot/map file is > overwritten. If Jeff want to return the disk partition to Windows there > will be a problem sooner or later. > > A sure way to fix the mbr is to use the XP install disk and follow > Microsoft's instructions: > http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/bootcons_fixmbr.mspx > or > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-6036.html > > Another issue is how to return the Linux partition to Windows. This can > simply be done by deleting the partitions with fdisk. Deleting a windows > or dos partition also requires overwriting the first sector of the > partition with zeros. > > Dave > > Nick Davis wrote: >> If you want that /mbr to now be the windows boot loader, you can format it from >> windows and have windows write it's boot loader there. You shouldn't have to >> actually >> delete it first. >> >> Although there is another trick you can do. From within linux put windows as your >> only >> boot option, then set the boot delay to 0, then write the lilo changes to the /mbr. >> This will make the system work as if grup wasn't there.. it will just jump right to >> windows. >> >> >> HTH's >> >> Nick Davis >> >> On Wed, June 15, 2005 20:01, Jeff Malka said: >>>Hi guys >>> >>>I've successfully installed Linux on two laptops. I would like to now remove >>>it from one of the two laptops where it is installed as a dual boot with >>>XP-SP2. I assume I can just delete the Linux partitions, but how do I >>>remove he grub installed in the mbr? Is there a way to do this through >>>Linux itself? I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition but restoring >>>from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to proceed. Any >>>help appreciated. >>> >>>Jeff Malka >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- >>>avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. >>>Virus Database (VPS): 0524-0, 06/13/2005 >>>Tested on: 6/15/2005 8:02:10 PM >>>avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. >>>http://www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>novalug mailing list >>>novalug@tux.org >>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> novalug mailing list >> novalug@tux.org >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From mark at winksmith.com Thu Jun 16 21:21:10 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Thu Jun 16 23:16:20 2005 Subject: [novalug] See 'man 7 undocumented' for help ... In-Reply-To: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium>; from pereira@speakeasy.net on Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:42:44AM -0400 References: <1118932964.20080.565.camel@lithium> Message-ID: <20050616212110.A31114@winksmith.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 10:42:44AM -0400, Nino Pereira wrote: > in a program's documentation I'm advised to read up on what > 'kill' does by going to the man pages. When I do kill is most likely a shell builtin. for documentation on it, you can run "man bash". my old bash man page has this to say on the topic: kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -sigspec] [pid | jobspec] ... kill -l [sigspec | exit_status] Send the signal named by sigspec or signum to the processes named by pid or jobspec. sigspec is either a signal name such as SIGKILL or a signal number; signum is a signal number. If sigspec is a signal name, the name may be given with or without the SIG prefix. If sigspec is not present, then SIGTERM is assumed. An argument of -l lists the signal names. If any arguments are supplied when -l is given, the names of the sig- nals corresponding to the arguments are listed, and the return status is 0. The exit_status argument to -l is a number speci- fying either a signal number or the exit status of a process terminated by a signal. kill returns true if at least one sig- nal was successfully sent, or false if an error occurs or an invalid option is encountered. you probably have a /bin/kill (/usr/bin/kill) too which is probably the same thing, but may not be. the shell builtin version integrates with shell job control such that you can send signals to the most recently backgrounded job: sleep 60 & kill %% or if you have a whole slew of backgrounded jobs, send a signal to the chosen one: kill %3 -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From email at jasonkohles.com Fri Jun 17 10:25:10 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Fri Jun 17 10:25:22 2005 Subject: [novalug] How to remove grub from mbr? In-Reply-To: <42B22BA4.60307@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <000501c57206$a2a26890$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> <42B22BA4.60307@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20050617142510.GB30693@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 09:47:16PM -0400, Peter Larsen wrote: > > If you want to install the DOS boot loader, it's easy. "fdisk /mbr" from > the command line, once booted into XP - and you're done - no need to > delete any DOS partitions. Your system will boot to the active partition > (so remember to set your DOS/XP partition as active). fdisk /mbr will > overwrite 0/0/0 and do the normal uncontrollable DOS/XP load. > Be aware that if you do this on a machine that has overlay software for large disks, dynamic disks, GPT disks, or where the signature word (the last two bytes of the mbr) has been overwritten, you will lose your partition table... > If you install any other boot-loader, lilo etc., they will overwrite > MBR. The fdisk /mbr basicly "restores" the MBR for Windows - and > preserves everything else. > fdisk /mbr gives you a new copy of the DOS bootloader master boot code (the master boot code is the first 446 bytes of the MBR), so it assumes that nothing changed that, it won't restore what you previously had there. The Windows XP recovery console 'fixmbr' command does the same thing, neither one will help if you have an obscure disk environment. > > Is there a way to do this > >through Linux itself? > > Not unless you saved the old content. Linux doesn't really care about > what other systems uses it for. And if Linux was the first OS you > installed on the laptop, there wouldn't be anything to save anyway. So > basicly, dual boot to XP, fix the MBR from XP/DOS and remove the Linux > partitions using Window's DiskManager. And you'll be all set running > 100% windows. > If you setup linux using lilo, then lilo saves a copy of whatever MBR was there previously by itself. If you haven't deleted the contents of the linux partition, you can restore this backup using 'lilo -u'. > >I have full images (Acronis) of my XP partition > >but restoring from them does not affect the mbr, so I am not sure how to > >proceed. Any help appreciated > > Excatly. Most disk tools will only effect partitions - not MBR. > You need to use the fdisk or the grub tools to write to 0/0/0. > Acronis claims to be able to do bare-metal restores, which means it has to have a backup of the MBR somewhere, although I haven't had enough experience with it to say if this actually works or not (of course it also assumes you imaged the whole disk, and not just the windows partition). -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 17 12:43:10 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 17 12:43:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? Message-ID: When I put a blank CD into one of my FC1 or FC2 machines (haven't tried FC3 yet; the stuff I want to back up is on FC1 or 2), and try to mount it with Main Menu > System Tools > Disk Management, I get an error saying no media present; but when I boot one of them to its other drive, and run XP, the same CD put into the same drawer doesn't even need a mount tool : the machine sees it, identifies it as blank, and pops up a menu of things I can do. I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than linux! I must have something configured wrong, somewhere, somehow -- on three or four different machines. What? Where? And what do I do about it? I've got slathering gobs of data I wnat to back up before I try to upgrade OSs yet again .... -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From cmhowe at patriot.net Fri Jun 17 12:27:22 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Fri Jun 17 13:28:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] Sometimes can't access sites, mail Message-ID: <1119025642.7094.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> List, Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) installed. I am experiencing erratic behavior. One time I boot, click on Firefox, click on a bookmark and it hangs. Sometimes it doesn't. Same with Evolution. One time it will be fine. Another time the Send/Receive Mail window appears, the pop part says "waiting ...", then, after several seconds the Evolution Error window appears, saying "Error while Fetching Mail". A minute later it works. Suggestions? Charlie From st0rm at fool.com Fri Jun 17 13:44:36 2005 From: st0rm at fool.com (st0rm) Date: Fri Jun 17 14:01:29 2005 Subject: [novalug] Sometimes can't access sites, mail In-Reply-To: <1119025642.7094.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119025642.7094.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sounds like your primary DNS server may be slow or unresponsive at times. The next time this happens, see if DNS resolution is failing by using "host" or "ping" commands in a terminal. If one of your servers is flaking out, you may want to try switching the order of nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf. If you pull DNS settings w/DHCP, you may additionally need to switch the DNS server order on your DHCP server. You could also be having general network problems. Try a continuous ping to an IP address outside your network(ie. one of your nameservers) and see if you lose connectivity. On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Charles M Howe wrote: > List, > > Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) installed. > > I am experiencing erratic behavior. One time I boot, click on Firefox, > click on a bookmark and it hangs. Sometimes it doesn't. Same with > Evolution. One time it will be fine. Another time the Send/Receive Mail > window appears, the pop part says "waiting ...", then, after several > seconds the Evolution Error window appears, saying "Error while Fetching > Mail". A minute later it works. Suggestions? > > Charlie > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com Fri Jun 17 13:34:59 2005 From: Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com (Smith, Michael J.) Date: Fri Jun 17 14:05:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] Sometimes can't access sites, mail Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: novalug-bounces@tux.org [mailto:novalug-bounces@tux.org] On Behalf > Of Charles M Howe > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:27 PM > To: novalug@tux.org > Subject: [novalug] Sometimes can't access sites, mail > > I am experiencing erratic behavior. One time I boot, click on Firefox, > click on a bookmark and it hangs. Sometimes it doesn't. Same with > Evolution. One time it will be fine. Another time the Send/Receive Mail > window appears, the pop part says "waiting ...", then, after several > seconds the Evolution Error window appears, saying "Error while Fetching > Mail". A minute later it works. Suggestions? Bad DNS server, so it's taking longer than usual to resolve the IP address? Have a look at what's in /etc/resolv.conf and see if you can ping the IP addresses that are listed there. If you've got a name server down, remove that line from resolv.conf and call your ISP's help desk. They are usually shocked to hear that you can troubleshoot their network. Cheers --Mike Michael J Smith michael.j.smith@unisys.com Information Security Specialist 703.419.3109 W 703.855.0890 C From nick at mrtizmo.com Fri Jun 17 14:47:49 2005 From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis) Date: Fri Jun 17 14:47:53 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46626.66.171.38.4.1119034069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> On my system Mandriva 2005 LE, when I put a blank CD/DVD into the drive it automatically starts K3B (the burning program). So I just choose what I want to do from there. The same way you describe windows as working. >From my understanding, you cannot mount a blank CD. To mount a CD it has to have a file system on it. You burn a CD with it NOT mounted. Then once it's burned you can mount it to look at it or use it. Just start your cd burning program, then within that program get your files ready to be burned to the CD, then when you are ready to burn the disk it should look for a blank cd in the cdr drive. HTH's Nick Davis On Fri, June 17, 2005 12:43, Beartooth said: > > When I put a blank CD into one of my FC1 or FC2 machines > (haven't tried FC3 yet; the stuff I want to back up is on FC1 or 2), > and try to mount it with Main Menu > System Tools > Disk Management, I > get an error saying no media present; but when I boot one of them to > its other drive, and run XP, the same CD put into the same drawer > doesn't even need a mount tool : the machine sees it, identifies it as > blank, and pops up a menu of things I can do. > > I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than > linux! I must have something configured wrong, somewhere, somehow -- > on three or four different machines. > > What? Where? And what do I do about it? I've got slathering > gobs of data I wnat to back up before I try to upgrade OSs yet again > .... > > -- > Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist > Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, > pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Fri Jun 17 15:13:36 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Fri Jun 17 15:13:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Beartooth wrote: > When I put a blank CD into one of my FC1 or FC2 machines (haven't tried FC3 yet; the stuff I want to back up is on FC1 or 2), and try to mount it with Main Menu > System Tools > Disk Management, I get an error saying no media present; but when I boot one of them to its other drive, and run XP, the same CD put into the same drawer doesn't even need a mount tool : the machine sees it, identifies it as blank, and pops up a menu of things I can do. You cannot mount what has no file system. You can detect that there's a disk that you cannot read, and I'm sure a CD RW has a "thingy" that will respond to the disktype. But try to put your blank CD in a normal CD drive under windows and you'll see the same problem. In other words, DO NOT TRY TO MOUNT a blank CD under Linux. To write, create an ISO and burn the ISO to the disk. There are a ton of tools on Linux to help you do that - many GUI - (I swear to CDRECORD but I'm old fashioned). Maybe someone here knows if "automount" can deal with launching a CD burning tool automaticly? I've not seen it but I'm not totally up to date on the latest. > I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than linux! I must have something configured wrong, somewhere, somehow -- on three or four different machines. I think it's a matter of perspective whether MS's (and the vendors') approach is BETTER in this case. I for one, could do with all that irritating idle code in memory, that steals CPU to monitor every little interrupt and change. When my XP laptop here idles - it idles at 10-15% because of it ..... and it's a M40 or something like that. > > What? Where? And what do I do about it? I've got slathering gobs of data I wnat to back up before I try to upgrade OSs yet again .... > Well, if you like to buy stuff - NERO has a Linux version. They claim to do what you're looking for - I don't know how good it is however. I'm sure people will have a billion different tools out there for you. Personally I'm still using mkisofs and cdrecord - but I'm old fashioned and I *like* the command line :) Regards Peter Larsen From email at jasonkohles.com Fri Jun 17 15:18:54 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Fri Jun 17 15:19:02 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 03:13:36PM -0400, Peter Larsen wrote: > > Maybe someone here knows if "automount" can deal with launching a CD > burning tool automaticly? I've not seen it but I'm not totally up to > date on the latest. > If you are using Gnome and have Nautilus installed, then putting a blank cd in the drive results in Nautilus starting up a burn window you can drag and drop files into. This is usually the point at which I realize that I am working on a recently installed machine that I haven't removed Nautilus from though, so I can't say how well it works as my next step (after swearing about what a pain Nautilus is) is to remove it. -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 17 15:47:53 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 17 15:48:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <42B30352.3070809@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Message-ID: Peter seems to address the group -- and just have forgotten the copy to the group -- so I'm adding it in; I hope that's OK. On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Peter Larsen wrote: > You cannot mount what has no file system. You can detect that > there's a disk that you cannot read, and I'm sure a CD RW has a > "thingy" that will respond to the disktype. But try to put your > blank CD in a normal CD drive under windows and you'll see the same > problem. But that's my point. When I do, XP opens a window -- knowing it has a blank CD, and therefore that I likely want to burn something onto it -- and gives me a choice or recording music, data, some other CD, or whatever. And Preferences in the Main Menu has an item for CD & DVD, which in turn has an item for Blank CDs, which offers to run a command when one is inserted; and the command that's there, the only one, is something like "/home/btth/nautilus --no-desktop burn:" -- which doesn't work. It once had /// after the colon, and did; dunno if the --no-desktop was there then. When I say it did, I mean it showed me a window into which I could drag a file from my home folder, hit a command, and get that file onto the CD to transfer to another machine. > In other words, DO NOT TRY TO MOUNT a blank CD under Linux. To write, > create an ISO and burn the ISO to the disk. There are a ton of tools on > Linux to help you do that - many GUI - (I swear to CDRECORD but I'm old > fashioned). OK, that makes sense (I think) ; but cdrecord and gnometoaster both baffle me utterly; I feel like a fish staring at a bicycle, if not vice-versa. > Maybe someone here knows if "automount" can deal with launching a CD > burning tool automaticly? I've not seen it but I'm not totally up to > date on the latest. I have that checked in the preferenced box with the item about Blank CDs -- for what that's worth ... > > I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than > > linux! I must have something configured wrong, somewhere, somehow -- > > on three or four different machines. > > I think it's a matter of perspective whether MS's (and the vendors') > approach is BETTER in this case. I for one, could do with all that > irritating idle code in memory, that steals CPU to monitor every > little interrupt and change. When my XP laptop here idles - it idles > at 10-15% because of it ..... and it's a M40 or something like that. > > > > What? Where? And what do I do about it? I've got slathering > > gobs of data I wnat to back up before I try to upgrade OSs yet > > again .... > > Well, if you like to buy stuff - NERO has a Linux version. They > claim to do what you're looking for - I don't know how good it is > however. Dunno from nero; never heard of it till my newest machine arrived yesterday, with XP installed. I found a tarball for k3b, which seems to be linux's answer, and downloaded it; but I'm no great shakes at tarballs, either. I presume I should first move it -- where?? -- and then uncompress it .... > I'm sure people will have a billion different tools out there for > you. Personally I'm still using mkisofs and cdrecord - but I'm old > fashioned and I *like* the command line :) That's the worst part! -- he shrieked, tearing out handfuls of his beard. So do I! -- when I know or can find the commands. But for stuff like burning CDs, that's so incredibly hairy I do it only at direst need, my fingers just don't seem to learn those commands -- and there are umpty gazillion of them, and each has to be character-perfect .... (Trifocal fingers and srthritic eyeballs don't exactly help, either, alas!) Methinks there are two apparent options that I might actually be able to do -- since I want to upgrade an FC1 machine to FC4 soonest, and use it to replace the stopgap pentium2 testbed (running FC3) that went onto my wife's desk when her ethernet card died -- namely upgrade first to FC2, hope to whatever gods there be that /home comes through all right, and then use k3b on it. Or else untar the tarball any old where -- like in /home/btth, where it was downloaded -- and hope k3b will run OK under FC1. Happen to know if one of those is safer than the other? -- Beartooth Implacable, neo-redneck, linux evangelist FC1-3, YDL 4.0 -- and, alas!, XP for GPS/maps Pine 4.63; Pan 0.14.2; Privoxy 3.0.3 Dillo 0.8, Opera 8.0, Firefox 1.0.4 Bear in mind that I know dam-all of what I am talking about. From djr1952 at hotpop.com Fri Jun 17 16:17:20 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Fri Jun 17 16:17:28 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> Message-ID: <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 15:18 -0400, Jason Kohles wrote: > This is usually the point at which I realize > that I am working on a recently installed machine that I haven't removed > Nautilus from though, so I can't say how well it works as my next step > (after swearing about what a pain Nautilus is) is to remove it. If you have never used/worked with Nautilus, other then to UNINSTALL it. Then why do you say it a pain to work with, please explain? Also what do you use in place of it? If you use/prefer KDE instead of Gnome then say just so. My Debian/Sarge which has be setup to default to use Gnome which then uses Nautilus {by default} and the combo seems to function very well together. Version "Gnome nautilus 2.8.2" -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From email at jasonkohles.com Fri Jun 17 16:41:54 2005 From: email at jasonkohles.com (Jason Kohles) Date: Fri Jun 17 16:42:04 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050617204154.GC7177@mail.jasonkohles.com> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 04:17:20PM -0400, donjr wrote: > On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 15:18 -0400, Jason Kohles wrote: > > This is usually the point at which I realize > > that I am working on a recently installed machine that I haven't removed > > Nautilus from though, so I can't say how well it works as my next step > > (after swearing about what a pain Nautilus is) is to remove it. > > If you have never used/worked with Nautilus, other then to UNINSTALL it. > Then why do you say it a pain to work with, please explain? Also what do > you use in place of it? If you use/prefer KDE instead of Gnome then say > just so. > I never use it, the thing that annoys me about it is that it pops up whenever you plug in any removable media, which is why I generally uninstall it (and swear at it) at that point. > My Debian/Sarge which has be setup to default to use Gnome which then > uses Nautilus {by default} and the combo seems to function very well > together. Version "Gnome nautilus 2.8.2" > My normal work environment consists of nothing but Firefox and dozens of xterms. Call me old school I guess, but I get a lot more work done from the command line than with the drag and drop stuff... -- Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) http://www.jasonkohles.com/ From megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov Fri Jun 17 13:04:36 2005 From: megan at rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov (C. Megan Larko) Date: Fri Jun 17 17:12:52 2005 Subject: [novalug] clamav errors Message-ID: <20050617170436.GA29825@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Hi, I was trying to upgrade my clam Anti-Virus this morning and ran into all sorts of problems. Neither tarball version clamav-0.86rc1.tar.gz nor earlier clamav-0.85.1.tar.gz will successfully configure. The error is always the same: checking for zlib installation... /usr checking for inflateEnd in -lz... no configure: error: Please install zlib and zlib-devel packages I **have** the zlib packages. The file is in /usr/include/zlib.h [root@rainfall4 src]# ls -l /usr/include/zlib.h -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 64268 Apr 12 02:59 /usr/include/zlib.h It is from the newer zlib version: [root@rainfall4 src]# rpm -qf /usr/include/zlib.h zlib-devel-1.2.2.2-3 Even if I attempt to state explicitly "./configure ZLIB_HOME=/usr" (which is the default directory for "linux". I still receive the same error. It cannot locate this file. So---I tried using rpms to install clamav. This didn't work either. Using the following group: clamav-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf.i386.rpm clamd-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf.i386.rpm clamav-db-0.85-1.1.fc2.rf.i386.rpm clamav-milter-0.85-1.1.el3.rf.i386.rpm I try to rpm -ivh clam* and get: root@rainfall4 megtest]# rpm -ivh clam*rpm warning: clamav-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 6b8d79e6 error: Failed dependencies: clamav-db = 0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf is needed by clamav-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf clamd = 0.85-1.1.el3.rf is needed by clamav-milter-0.85-1.1.el3.rf libcom_err.so.3 is needed by clamav-milter-0.85-1.1.el3.rf Pls note that all of the needed rpms are in the isolated directory. So I try nodeps to force in. No go with that either: [root@rainfall4 megtest]# rpm -ivh --nodeps clam*rpm warning: clamav-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 6b8d79e6 Preparing... ########################################### [100%] file /var/clamav/daily.cvd conflicts between attempted installs of clamav-db-0.85-1.1.fc2.rf and clamd-0.85.1-1.1.fc2.rf I removed the /var/clamav directory; it isn't there anymore. I have rebuilt the database. Still same error. This is a Fedora Core 2 box with a custom 2.6.11 web100-enabled linux kernel. Any ideas? megan -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- "God, grant me the serenity to prioritize the things I cannot delegate, courage to say no when I need to, and wisdom to know when to go home." -Plagiarized from an unknown source ----------------------------------------------------------------- C. Megan Larko Laboratory for Hydrospheric Sciences Code 614.3 Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 From plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com Fri Jun 17 17:17:44 2005 From: plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com (Peter Larsen) Date: Fri Jun 17 17:17:59 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B33DF8.2030609@famlarsen.homelinux.com> Beartooth wrote: > Peter seems to address the group -- and just have forgotten > the copy to the group -- so I'm adding it in; I hope that's OK. Grr - I'll learn it some day. I did wonder why I didn't see my own posting before I received yours, and I did see the error of my way and reposted my answer to the group (gotta remember to hit REPLY-ALL ). > On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Peter Larsen wrote: > > >>You cannot mount what has no file system. You can detect that >>there's a disk that you cannot read, and I'm sure a CD RW has a >>"thingy" that will respond to the disktype. But try to put your >>blank CD in a normal CD drive under windows and you'll see the same >>problem. > > > But that's my point. When I do, XP opens a window -- knowing > it has a blank CD, and therefore that I likely want to burn something > onto it -- and gives me a choice or recording music, data, some other > CD, or whatever. I may not have been too clear. I meant if you insert your blank CD-R in a NON burner drive - an ordinary CD drive that just reads - in XP and you'll get the exact same error as on Linux. Windows will not know it's a blank desk. The only reason that XP can pop up and start burning, is because on boot it loads a little piece of code that keeps pulling or wait for CD communication, and it then expects what happens without asking you. Eventually as your system gets older, and you add more and more utilities, you have a battle for resources - without even using them. For instance, on my XP laptop, I cannot address the CD drive for about 10 seconds after I insert a disc ... the drive is simply too busy calling XP stuff to tell it, a new disc is in, and please see what you can do. XP looks for autorun, Roxio looks for disc type, and Winamp looks for music etc. etc. etc. - they all are busy "helping" me, and I'm going CRAZY!! Guess why I like linux? Besides a better architecture, it let's me decide and KNOW what runs! Last time I had Adaware do a full scan it reported more than 1000 active DLLs in memory looking for events!!! This without anything loaded - so yes, I'm getting ready to do the yearly reinstall. Hehe - I saw the other day in a magazine that a company preinstalled Linux on the same model Dell laptop I have (D800) - so I might juuuuust take a chance. Problem I have is my company swears to Windows - and most of our internal services barely works outside IE - so I need access to the browser, abeit I rarely use it. Gotta find a way - maybe wmware will be my solution. I really don't mind loading the CD burning software manually. Regardless if it's GUI or not, it's just a click away. I don't need to waste memory and resources in the 167 other hours of the week because I might use the burner for that one hour. This is why I really question the benefit of all this "automation". All this critism of Windows must be followed by something more positive. One thing I do like about Roxio's approach is the "virutal" disk. You have a normal drive, even for CD-R, and only when you click "done" is the ISO done etc. Basicly they're building a pre-ISO image, and then converting it on the fly to ISO and burning it. This is an approach I see lots of sense in - and I've heard it exists for Linux too; but I've never tried it myself. My approach may be a bit "old fashioned" but I've found it works for all and everything, regardless: 1) Create root dir for disc, ie /opt/cdr 2) Copy and create file-structure you want on the disc to /opt/cdr/ 3) "du" /opt/cdr to verify it doesn't exceed 650MB 4) Create iso with mkisofs (do remember the juilet par etc) 5) Pass created iso to cdrecord If I have multiple disks, I usuall generate all the ISO's before I start burning. Because my system is a bit old, there's NO HANKY PANKY while burning or the buffers overrun :( It's straight forward, and if the burning fails - well, drop the disk, insert a new and rerun the last command. Also the iso's can be archived and mounted locally later - gotta love "loop". > And Preferences in the Main Menu has an item for CD & DVD, > which in turn has an item for Blank CDs, which offers to run a command > when one is inserted; and the command that's there, the only one, is > something like "/home/btth/nautilus --no-desktop burn:" -- which > doesn't work. It once had /// after the colon, and did; dunno if the > --no-desktop was there then. One of my first lessons on Linux was that mega-applications were non-existant. Everything depended on everything. So your preference options are basicly depending on other functionality to be present on your system. If you have no process running that monitors the CD-R(w) signal about a disk being inserted, then nothing is ever going to happen. I don't know much about the gui side of CD writing on Linux - my beat was just about the usability of a process that automaticly scans your CD for content and tries to launch the application that goes with it. I really think it's one of the worse features of a windows box. > When I say it did, I mean it showed me a window into which I > could drag a file from my home folder, hit a command, and get that > file onto the CD to transfer to another machine. Yeah - that's one way. I usually move data via network. It's a bit easier. With ssh you just do a scp and off you go. Get a small loop-back cable and plug the stuff in. On my "todo" for Linux is also my USB storage. Since I run a pretty old version of RH on my "play" box (7.0) there's lots of funky features in particular on the USB side, that I simply cannot use. Well - it doesn't help I turned off the BIOS functions for it too :) But it might be a viable solution for you instead of a CD. A 1GB key can hold more than your CD and I think the transferate is about the same? Not sure however, how well most USB storage devices work on Linux yet. I use CD writing for backup mostly - or install media for big monkey stuff like Oracle. To exchange data between boxes I use network and my USB drives. >>In other words, DO NOT TRY TO MOUNT a blank CD under Linux. To write, >>create an ISO and burn the ISO to the disk. There are a ton of tools on >>Linux to help you do that - many GUI - (I swear to CDRECORD but I'm old >>fashioned). > > OK, that makes sense (I think) ; but cdrecord and gnometoaster > both baffle me utterly; I feel like a fish staring at a bicycle, if > not vice-versa. Hehe - there's a bit of a learning curve, I give you that. But it also gives you good insight in what technically happens when you burn a disk. As I tried to show above, cdrecord doesn't create an ISO - you need to do that first. CDRECORD basicly transfer ISOs to disk, create tracks etc. on your CD. Which reminds me - I've never figured out how to USE multi-session CDs on Linux?? Does anyone know? >>Maybe someone here knows if "automount" can deal with launching a CD >>burning tool automaticly? I've not seen it but I'm not totally up to >>date on the latest. > > I have that checked in the preferenced box with the item about > Blank CDs -- for what that's worth ... Automount is a separate service - usually installed on RedHat so I'm pretty sure Fedona has it too. It's basicly idle unless you do something to it's setup. What it does allow you to do, is when you refer a given path, it will try to mount/run whatever command you have setup for it, to mount the volume. And it will do post-processing too when you're done > Dunno from nero; never heard of it till my newest machine > arrived yesterday, with XP installed. I found a tarball for > k3b, which seems to be linux's answer, and downloaded it; but I'm no > great shakes at tarballs, either. I presume I should first move it -- > where?? -- and then uncompress it .... Tar balls are great - but RPM and other package systems were invented because TAR balls do require a lot of knowlege from the user. Basicly you should always untar to a "local" place - never in /usr etc. Create a directory in your home directory, and untar it. Then if things work like most standard balls you'll have to run: ./configure make make install In some cases paramters are needed for configure - check the README files first - they'll tell you. Ohh btw. _only_ "make install" is run as root - everything else is run as your "low priv. user" - but you know that ;) >>I'm sure people will have a billion different tools out there for >>you. Personally I'm still using mkisofs and cdrecord - but I'm old >>fashioned and I *like* the command line :) > > That's the worst part! -- he shrieked, tearing out handfuls of > his beard. So do I! -- when I know or can find the commands. pant, gasp> But for stuff like burning CDs, that's so incredibly hairy > I do it only at direst need, my fingers just don't seem to learn those > commands -- and there are umpty gazillion of them, and each has to be > character-perfect .... (Trifocal fingers and srthritic eyeballs don't > exactly help, either, alas!) Hmmm - yeah. Lots of roads lead to Rome :) You don't need to know all the burning systems out there. Basicly find one that creates ISOs for you, and one that burns them. Most GUIs combine those too - XCDROAST that I used once, basicly was just a cover for mkisofs and cdrecord :) So it was easy to use (for me). I've learned to not try to eat the whole apple at once and stick with what works. Maybe that's why I'm still using vi?? hmmmmm. > Methinks there are two apparent options that I might actually > be able to do -- since I want to upgrade an FC1 machine to FC4 > soonest, and use it to replace the stopgap pentium2 testbed (running > FC3) that went onto my wife's desk when her ethernet card died -- > namely upgrade first to FC2, hope to whatever gods there be that /home > comes through all right, and then use k3b on it. Or else untar the > tarball any old where -- like in /home/btth, where it was downloaded > -- and hope k3b will run OK under FC1. Ok - I gotta know the secret - how do you get the wife to USE LINUX??? Tell me the secret - I could use it :) > Happen to know if one of those is safer than the other? Other than it seems to be shooting birds with canonballs to reinstall the OS in order to burn a CD, not really. But let us hope, that someone here on the list have tried one of them before. Gotta remember, that TAR balls require compiling - so you need a ton of RIGHT libraries for things to work. ./configure does the necessary checks for you - so just go for it. Worst thing that happens is you get an error message :) Good luck Peter Larsen From djr1952 at hotpop.com Fri Jun 17 17:53:45 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Fri Jun 17 17:53:49 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <20050617204154.GC7177@mail.jasonkohles.com> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050617204154.GC7177@mail.jasonkohles.com> Message-ID: <1119045225.2131.159.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 16:41 -0400, Jason Kohles wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 04:17:20PM -0400, donjr wrote: > > On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 15:18 -0400, Jason Kohles wrote: > > > This is usually the point at which I realize > > > that I am working on a recently installed machine that I haven't removed > > > Nautilus from though, so I can't say how well it works as my next step > > > (after swearing about what a pain Nautilus is) is to remove it. > > > > If you have never used/worked with Nautilus, other then to UNINSTALL it. > > Then why do you say it a pain to work with, please explain? Also what do > > you use in place of it? If you use/prefer KDE instead of Gnome then say > > just so. > > > I never use it, the thing that annoys me about it is that it pops up > whenever you plug in any removable media, which is why I generally > uninstall it (and swear at it) at that point. To turnoff the auto-pop-up feature for Gnome it's: { in an x-terminal } $ gnome-cd-properties And on the screen that comes up adjust things to the way you want them. Adjustable setting on the window include "what to do" when inserted: data disc) "just mount" or also "Start auto-run program" { I always disable the later} audio CD ) nothing or run some program Blank CD ) disable or select a possible GUI program default "gnome-cd --no-desktop...." DVD (video) ) nothing or "there a few possibles to select from" Note: The above should also be where Beartooth should look to adjust things. > > My Debian/Sarge which has be setup to default to use Gnome which then > > uses Nautilus {by default} and the combo seems to function very well > > together. Version "Gnome nautilus 2.8.2" > > > My normal work environment consists of nothing but Firefox and dozens of > xterms. Call me old school I guess, but I get a lot more work done from > the command line than with the drag and drop stuff... Yes I also have one or more "Terminal Command line" widows open and do most of my work and starting of application from these. It's just faster then a bunch of mouse clicks... -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. $ /usr/games/fortune : Your present plans will be successful. From mstone at mathom.us Fri Jun 17 18:24:35 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Fri Jun 17 19:24:43 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050617222435.GF25854@mathom.us> On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 04:17:20PM -0400, donjr wrote: >If you have never used/worked with Nautilus, other then to UNINSTALL it. >Then why do you say it a pain to work with, please explain? It's hideous. The "new and improved" spatial model is atrocious to work with. I guess it's great if you don't actually use more than one or two directories, but for anything more you have to deal with a ridiculous number of windows. This is what happens when developers target a perceived least common denominator. Mike Stone From malkajef at orthohelp.com Fri Jun 17 19:09:30 2005 From: malkajef at orthohelp.com (Jeff Malka) Date: Fri Jun 17 19:51:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: mbr and grub References: <200506171428.j5HERMlT015560@gwyn.tux.org> Message-ID: <002801c57391$ba22c460$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> > It's not only feasible, it's easy (and some distributions do it > already). Well, I spoke out of wishfulness and ignorant newbiness. The distribution I used (Mepis) did not have lilo as an option, only grub, and no option to "undo" the mbr install. Wish they had! I'll suggest it to them. Would have saved me literally days of anguish trying to get back my XP mbr. As I said almost nobody I know actually buys XP. They get it pre-installed with an oem recovery CD which in many cases does not include a "repair" option or fixmbr. The option of using fdisk .mbr is not recommended by the XP gurus I talked to. Apparently booting from the XP install CD is the way to do it and then you run into the oem problems I cited. Anyway, all is well. A kind soul actually sent me a XP boot CD iso which when copied to a CD worked like a charm. It is amazing how smoothly things go with the right tools..... Now I am exploring Linux on the other (non-work) Dell Inspiron laptop. Hit one snag so far. The win-modem in the laptop is not connecting under Linux. Not really surprising but not as easy to replace with a real modem when dealing with a laptop! Will keep working on it. I'm having fun (I think). Jeff Malka > From: Jason Kohles >> A good-will measure on the part of Linux installation routines, >> would be to >> backup (if possible) the original mbr it finds BEFORE overwriting it >> with >> grub so that it can be restored should the user decide to go back to >> Windows. A nice touch if technically feasible. >> > It's not only feasible, it's easy (and some distributions do it > already). > If you are installing a system for testing, and have the option of > grub > or lilo, you can pick lilo. When lilo starts up if there is not a > backup of the MBR already existing, it creates one, which you can > restore later by running 'lilo -u'. I know YaST has options for > backing > up and restoring the MBR, though I've never used it. > > Long ago I considered creating a bootable floppy that would give you > options to save or restore the MBR. Boot from the floppy, pick save, > do > your testing, if things get fouled up, boot from the floppy and pick > restore. A single floppy has more than enough space to store a tiny > bootable linux install and a couple of MBR backups. But it's easy > enough > to backup that I've never bothered to actually build that. > > To backup your MBR: > * Boot from a rescue CD > * Find somewhere to store the backup (floppy, usb drive, directory on > the hard drive, whatever) > * mkfs.ext2 /dev/fd0 > * mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy > * dd a copy of the MBR over > dd if=/dev/hda of=/mnt/floppy/mbr-backup bs=512 count=1 > > To restore, boot from the rescue cd again, mount the directory with > your backup, and run dd > dd if=/mnt/floppy/mbr-backup of=/dev/hda > > With a sufficiently featured rescue cd, you can even backup over the > network. This is what I do to keep backups of the MBR for my > development systems, I added a couple of little scripts to my rescue > cd... > > #!/bin/sh > # backup-mbr.sh > BU=/backups/mbr/`hostname`/`date +"%F_%T"` > dd if=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 | ssh backups@devserv "cat - > $BU" > > #!/bin/sh > # restore-mbr.sh > BU=/backups/mbr/`hostname`/ > MBR=`ssh backups@devserv "ls -rt1 $BU | head -1"` > ssh backups@devserv "cat $MBR" | dd of=/dev/sda > > Be aware though that the first 512 bytes of the disk contain both the > MBR and the partition table, if you backup, change partition sizes, > and > then restore, you may not like the results. In this case you can try > restoring only the first 446 bytes, but I'm not sure that this will > always work either. > > -- > Jason Kohles A witty saying proves nothing. > email@jasonkohles.com -- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) > http://www.jasonkohles.com/ > --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0524-5, 06/17/2005 Tested on: 6/17/2005 7:10:18 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From novalug2dave at davearonson.com Fri Jun 17 19:54:59 2005 From: novalug2dave at davearonson.com (Dave Aronson) Date: Fri Jun 17 20:21:46 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200506171954.59836.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Beartooth wrote: > I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than > linux! Sure there is. Marketing! -Dave From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Fri Jun 17 20:40:16 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Fri Jun 17 20:40:45 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <200506171954.59836.novalug2dave@davearonson.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Dave Aronson wrote: > Beartooth wrote: > > > I can't believe there's *anything* MS can do better than > > linux! > > Sure there is. Marketing! Awww...!! Howta make a guy feel dummer than he did areddy. And that on a Friday night -- you *friend*, you. I'm gonna go crawl inna hole and pull the hole in after me. And to all a good weekend. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From juliac at patriot.net Fri Jun 17 21:35:50 2005 From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson) Date: Fri Jun 17 22:04:43 2005 Subject: [novalug] clamav errors In-Reply-To: <20050617170436.GA29825@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <20050617170436.GA29825@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <42B37A76.1030404@patriot.net> C. Megan Larko wrote: > Hi, > > I was trying to upgrade my clam Anti-Virus this morning and > ran into all sorts of problems. > [ ... snip ... ] > This is a Fedora Core 2 box with a custom 2.6.11 web100-enabled > linux kernel. > > Any ideas? > megan Use a clamav yum repository? http://www.clamav.net/binary.html#pagestart and scroll down to Red Hat - Fedora. I'm using one of these at work for FC2, can't check at the moment to see which one, sorry. -- Julia From cjgraham at tachegroup.com Fri Jun 17 23:11:27 2005 From: cjgraham at tachegroup.com (Christopher Graham) Date: Fri Jun 17 23:38:08 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: [dclug] Anyone have any idea what I can do with a bunch of these? NIC, for New Internet Computer In-Reply-To: <42B35521.5090108@misteam.net> References: <20050615213912.9931.qmail@web61020.mail.yahoo.com> <42B35521.5090108@misteam.net> Message-ID: <5826151c0f1e2cd72d1507a6a6512d39@tachegroup.com> ...remind me to dust off my Audrey... back on the subject ... A few interesting items if you want to hack em... http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6520149088.html ... look who wrote this one ... http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4475 On Jun 17, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: > I'm thinking Firewall, or maybe a dedicated DHCP server. I have a > friend who has a bunch new in boxes and is trying to think of a way to > get rid of them. > > I've heard there are some Linux distro's that will work on them - > Knoppix? > > ****** > As the name implies, NIC, for New Internet Computer, looks much like a > computer. It has a full-size keyboard, mouse, and two separate > speakers. The optional 15" display is an ordinary computer monitor. > Only the small (2 1/2" x 11 1/2" x 10") size of the main unit hints > that it is not a full computer. The coordinated black color of the > components gives the complete unit a slightly updated look. > > The NIC allows you to send and receive e-mail and to access the > Internet. It has a 266-MHz Pentium-class processor, 64 Megabytes of > RAM, and a 56K modem. There is no hard drive for running programs or > storing information. The NIC, however, can be used to access Internet > sites, which provide the same functionality as some software programs. > For instance, you can find many Web sites that offer free appointment > calendars, photo sharing storage, and games. > > The NIC comes with a built-in 24X CDROM, which will be used to > distribute operating system upgrades. This Internet appliance supports > Flash Player for games as well as video and RealPlayer for audio > playback on the Internet. At this time it does not support Instant > Messenger, but it may do so in the future. > > _______________________________________________ > dclug mailing list > dclug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug > From unix at bikesn4x4s.com Fri Jun 17 23:28:16 2005 From: unix at bikesn4x4s.com (Paul) Date: Sat Jun 18 00:01:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] LOL, sounds about right. Message-ID: <1142.192.168.103.1.1119065296.squirrel@192.168.103.1> NEW YORK - Theo de Raadt is a pioneer of the open source software movement and a huge proponent of free software. But he is no fan of the open source Linux operating system. "It's terrible," De Raadt says. "Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, 'This is garbage and we should fix it.'" De Raadt makes a rival open source operating system called OpenBSD. Unlike Linux, which is a clone of Unix, OpenBSD is based on an actual Unix variant called Berkeley Software Distribution. BSD powers two of the best operating systems in the world--Solaris from Sun Microsystems (nasdaq: SUNW - news - people ) and OS X from Apple Computer (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ). There are three open source flavors of BSD--FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, the one De Raadt develops, which is best-known for its security features. In a sort of hacker equivalent of the Ford-versus- Chevy rivalry, BSD guys make fun of Linux on message boards and Web sites, the gist being that BSD guys are a lot like Linux guys, except they have kissed girls. Sour grapes? Maybe. Linux is immensely more popular than all of the open source BSD versions. De Raadt says that's partly because Linux gets support from big hardware makers like Hewlett-Packard (nasdaq: HPQ - news - people ) and IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ), which he says have turned Linux hackers into an unpaid workforce. "These companies used to have to pay to develop Unix. They had in- house engineers who wrote new features when customers wanted them. Now they just allow the user community to do their own little hacks and features, trying to get to the same functionality level, and they're just putting pennies into it," De Raadt says. De Raadt says his crack 60-person team of programmers, working in a tightly focused fashion and starting with a core of tried-and-true Unix, puts out better code than the slapdash Linux movement. "I think our code quality is higher, just because that's really a big focus for us," De Raadt says. "Linux has never been about quality. There are so many parts of the system that are just these cheap little hacks, and it happens to run." As for Linus Torvalds, who created Linux and oversees development, De Raadt says, "I don't know what his focus is at all anymore, but it isn't quality." Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to comment further. De Raadt blames Linux's development structure, in which thousands of coders feed bits of code to "maintainers," who in turn pass pieces to Torvalds and a handful of top lieutenants. The involvement of big companies also creates problems, De Raadt says, since companies push their own agendas and end up squabbling-- as happened recently when a Red Hat (nasdaq: RHAT - news - people ) coder published an essay criticizing IBM's Linux programmers. There's also a difference in motivation. "Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix," De Raadt says. The irony, however, is that while noisy Linux fanatics make a great deal out of their hatred for Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ), De Raadt says their beloved program is starting to look a lot like what Microsoft puts out. "They have the same rapid development cycle, which leads to crap," he says. De Raadt says BSD could have become the world's most popular open source operating system, except that a lawsuit over BSD scared away developers, who went off to work on Linux and stayed there even after BSD was deemed legal. "It's really very sad," he says. "It is taking a long time for the Linux code base to get where BSD was ten years ago." Lok Technologies, a San Jose, Calif.-based maker of networking gear, started out using Linux in its equipment but switched to OpenBSD four years ago after company founder Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate in computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code. "You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? Right then I knew it was time to switch." From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 18 00:03:24 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 18 03:03:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <20050617222435.GF25854@mathom.us> References: <42B320E0.8060404@famlarsen.homelinux.com> <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> <1119039440.2135.134.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050617222435.GF25854@mathom.us> Message-ID: <1119067404.2135.172.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 18:24 -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 04:17:20PM -0400, donjr wrote: > >If you have never used/worked with Nautilus, other then to UNINSTALL it. > >Then why do you say it a pain to work with, please explain? > > It's hideous. The "new and improved" spatial model is atrocious to work > with. I guess it's great if you don't actually use more than one or two > directories, but for anything more you have to deal with a ridiculous > number of windows. This is what happens when developers target a > perceived least common denominator. > > Mike Stone And get it all so wrong !!!! The other problem I have is: My {older} 800mhz Toshiba laptop and xscreensaver don't get along. It {as in the laptop} just don't have enough power and/or memory to waste on a "Auto Screen Saver", if I want to "save" the screen from burn-in I close the lid and that shuts the monitor off. Unfortunately due to the "dependencies" of Gnome it is a required component. Although I have no idea as to why it's required. And even if I go into the configuration and DISABLE all features and tell Gnome to kill the demon, the next time I log-in Gnome loads the demon anyway. Why? -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From storm at tux.org Sat Jun 18 09:08:36 2005 From: storm at tux.org (Bradley M Alexander) Date: Sat Jun 18 09:08:42 2005 Subject: [novalug] Hardware search Message-ID: <20050618090836.A20365@gwyn.tux.org> Does anyone have a socket 462 [1-1.4GHz] Athlon processor they would be willing to part with? Obviously, I would prefer the 266FSB, but beggars can't be choosers... I was looking around the metro area, and every one of the used hardware places I knew of have been out of business for at least a couple of years, and the majority of the "chop shops" don't deal in anything but new hardware. Please email me privately, off list. Thanks, -- --Brad ======================================================================== Bradley M. Alexander | IA Analyst, SysAdmin, Security Engineer | storm [at] tux.org Debian/GNU Linux Developer | storm [at] debian.org ======================================================================== Key fingerprints: DSA 0x54434E65: 37F6 BCA6 621D 920C E02E E3C8 73B2 C019 5443 4E65 RSA 0xC3BCBA91: 3F 0E 26 C1 90 14 AD 0A C8 9C F0 93 75 A0 01 34 ======================================================================== If you buy a room temperature cheese that you squeeze out of an aerosol can, you probably aren't gonna be mad if it glows in the dark. --Mitch Hedberg From linux_author at verizon.net Sat Jun 18 09:47:56 2005 From: linux_author at verizon.net (linux_author@verizon.net) Date: Sat Jun 18 10:40:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: [dclug] Anyone have any idea what I can do with a bunch of these? NIC, for New Internet Computer In-Reply-To: <5826151c0f1e2cd72d1507a6a6512d39@tachegroup.com> References: <20050615213912.9931.qmail@web61020.mail.yahoo.com> <42B35521.5090108@misteam.net> <5826151c0f1e2cd72d1507a6a6512d39@tachegroup.com> Message-ID: <9309351A-DFFF-11D9-ADED-000A95C279EA@verizon.net> yep - i miss my NICs... had two and gave each away as prizes when i taught a basic and advanced Linux course out there in Falls Church at a local business college... also had a Compaq IA1 running Jailbait Linux (IA1s also run MI4, a Midori Linux variant)... btw, i still have my Audreys, upgraded to root shell... one is still NIB!!! the cool thing is that you can use a wireless bridge w/an Audrey NIC to make your Audrey a wireless browser station! one of these days i'll pull one of the Audreys out and play some more... billy 'in gator-infested Fla.' ball On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:11 PM, Christopher Graham wrote: > ...remind me to dust off my Audrey... > > back on the subject ... A few interesting items if you want to hack > em... > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6520149088.html > > ... look who wrote this one ... > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4475 > > > On Jun 17, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Mike Weaver wrote: > >> I'm thinking Firewall, or maybe a dedicated DHCP server. I have a >> friend who has a bunch new in boxes and is trying to think of a way >> to get rid of them. >> >> I've heard there are some Linux distro's that will work on them - >> Knoppix? >> >> ****** >> As the name implies, NIC, for New Internet Computer, looks much like >> a computer. It has a full-size keyboard, mouse, and two separate >> speakers. The optional 15" display is an ordinary computer monitor. >> Only the small (2 1/2" x 11 1/2" x 10") size of the main unit hints >> that it is not a full computer. The coordinated black color of the >> components gives the complete unit a slightly updated look. >> >> The NIC allows you to send and receive e-mail and to access the >> Internet. It has a 266-MHz Pentium-class processor, 64 Megabytes of >> RAM, and a 56K modem. There is no hard drive for running programs or >> storing information. The NIC, however, can be used to access Internet >> sites, which provide the same functionality as some software >> programs. For instance, you can find many Web sites that offer free >> appointment calendars, photo sharing storage, and games. >> >> The NIC comes with a built-in 24X CDROM, which will be used to >> distribute operating system upgrades. This Internet appliance >> supports Flash Player for games as well as video and RealPlayer for >> audio playback on the Internet. At this time it does not support >> Instant Messenger, but it may do so in the future. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dclug mailing list >> dclug@tux.org >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug >> > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From RossPatterson at comcast.net Sat Jun 18 10:21:26 2005 From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson) Date: Sat Jun 18 10:43:18 2005 Subject: [novalug] LOL, sounds about right. In-Reply-To: <1142.192.168.103.1.1119065296.squirrel@192.168.103.1> References: <1142.192.168.103.1.1119065296.squirrel@192.168.103.1> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20050618101144.031e8410@mail.comcast.net> At 23:28 06/17/05, Paul wrote: >Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to >comment further. The author should have asked De Raadt why he felt the need to create OpenBSD in the first place :-) >Lok Technologies, a San Jose, Calif.-based maker of networking gear, >started out using Linux in its equipment but switched to OpenBSD four >years ago after company founder Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate in >computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code. > >"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the >operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this >belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? >Right then I knew it was time to switch." Rrrrrrriiiigggghhttt ... Because the BSDs don't have any questionable code in their kernels. You can tell that by reading the comments! :-) And they certainly don't have a big giant comment that begins "YOU ARE NOT EXPECTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS." in a very important block of the kernel :-) This guy may have a CS PhD, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with programming savvy or experience making large bodies of code work in complex environments. Anyone who's ever done that has had those "hmm, why is THAT code here?" moments. At least some random programmer left a warning to anyone else who followed behind him. Ross From dave at dmallwitz.net Sat Jun 18 11:10:04 2005 From: dave at dmallwitz.net (David Mallwitz) Date: Sat Jun 18 11:31:45 2005 Subject: [novalug] clamav errors In-Reply-To: <20050617170436.GA29825@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> References: <20050617170436.GA29825@rainfall4.gsfc.nasa.gov> Message-ID: On Jun 17, 2005, at 1:04 PM, C. Megan Larko wrote: > > I was trying to upgrade my clam Anti-Virus this morning and > ran into all sorts of problems. > > Neither tarball version clamav-0.86rc1.tar.gz nor earlier > clamav-0.85.1.tar.gz will successfully configure. The error > is always the same: > > checking for zlib installation... /usr > checking for inflateEnd in -lz... no > configure: error: Please install zlib and zlib-devel packages > > I **have** the zlib packages. The file is in /usr/include/zlib.h > [root@rainfall4 src]# ls -l /usr/include/zlib.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 64268 Apr 12 02:59 /usr/include/zlib.h > > It is from the newer zlib version: > [root@rainfall4 src]# rpm -qf /usr/include/zlib.h > zlib-devel-1.2.2.2-3 > > Even if I attempt to state explicitly "./configure ZLIB_HOME=/usr" > (which is the default directory for "linux". I still receive > the same error. It cannot locate this file. According to 'configure --help' the correct syntax would be './ configure --with-zlib=/usr/include'. Dave From goldsmithj at yahoo.com Sat Jun 18 11:20:44 2005 From: goldsmithj at yahoo.com (jlg) Date: Sat Jun 18 11:47:35 2005 Subject: [novalug] LOL, sounds about right. In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050618101144.031e8410@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050618152044.62137.qmail@web50705.mail.yahoo.com> "difficult" says it all. The idea that Linux has the massive peer review that it has inspires my confidence. As to hating MS, some of us place our loathing at Sun's doorstep for that abomination called Java (not to mention making csh the default shell (don't know if this is still true)). I suppose this feeling of mine spills over to all things BSD. The BSD guys always talk a good game but the delivery cycle is tad long. Do I smell gasoline? ...jlg --- Ross Patterson wrote: > At 23:28 06/17/05, Paul wrote: > >Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to > >comment further. > > The author should have asked De Raadt why he felt the need to > create > OpenBSD in the first place :-) > > >Lok Technologies, a San Jose, Calif.-based maker of networking > gear, > >started out using Linux in its equipment but switched to OpenBSD > four > >years ago after company founder Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate > in > >computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code. > > > >"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the > >operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does > this > >belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that > inspire? > >Right then I knew it was time to switch." > > Rrrrrrriiiigggghhttt ... Because the BSDs don't have any > questionable code > in their kernels. You can tell that by reading the comments! :-) > And > they certainly don't have a big giant comment that begins "YOU ARE > NOT > EXPECTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS." in a very important block of the > kernel :-) > > This guy may have a CS PhD, but that doesn't necessarily have > anything to > do with programming savvy or experience making large bodies of code > work in > complex environments. Anyone who's ever done that has had those > "hmm, why > is THAT code here?" moments. At least some random programmer left > a > warning to anyone else who followed behind him. > > Ross > > _______________________________________________ > novalug mailing list > novalug@tux.org > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug > for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page > From dsl at zai.com Sat Jun 18 12:12:32 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sat Jun 18 14:02:19 2005 Subject: [novalug] Uninstalling GRUB In-Reply-To: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42B447F0.502@zai.com> Jeff, The older lilo boot program automatically created a backup of the MBR that could be restored by running lilo with the -u switch (for uninstall). SuSE Linux (starting with SuSE 9) provides a backup copy of the MBR and a configuration tool for restoring the MBR. Other distributions may provide their own means of uninstalling GRUB. The SuSE web site provides directions for uninstalling GRUB when there is no backup of the MBR. They repeat the common advice about using the Windows 2000 or Windows XP install disk. The interesting suggestion is how to proceed when the Windows installation disk is unavailable. Go to the following link and look under "Using Freedos" for details: http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/09/fhassel_deinstall_grub.html Dave From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sat Jun 18 15:11:08 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sat Jun 18 15:11:12 2005 Subject: [novalug] Uninstalling GRUB In-Reply-To: <42B447F0.502@zai.com> References: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> <42B447F0.502@zai.com> Message-ID: <1119121868.2135.198.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have only a small comment/question related to the subject line. How can you Uninstall anything from something that has no concept of package management? I've never seen any BIOS with an Uninstall or Install option of any type and it's what uses the MBR and it's finial step in the system boot process. So as far as the Master Boot Record (MBR) goes, the only thing possible, other then replacing the boot device itself, is to replace it's contents with something else and there are a number of utilities out there that offer possible contents replacement: Grub, {needs space within a partition to hold most of it's code} Lilo, {needs space within a partition to hold most of it's code} M$-DOS's FDISK.EXE, {dumb but mimumly functional spinrite, {no comment...} one of these "free" master boot loaders , STONED EMPIRE MONKEY VIRUS , or one of these: So take your pick... -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From keith.casey at gmail.com Sat Jun 18 10:48:33 2005 From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith C) Date: Sat Jun 18 16:15:21 2005 Subject: [novalug] LOL, sounds about right. In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050618101144.031e8410@mail.comcast.net> References: <1142.192.168.103.1.1119065296.squirrel@192.168.103.1> <6.2.1.2.0.20050618101144.031e8410@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On 6/18/05, Ross Patterson wrote: > >"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the > >operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this > >belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? > >Right then I knew it was time to switch." > > Rrrrrrriiiigggghhttt ... Because the BSDs don't have any questionable code > in their kernels. You can tell that by reading the comments! :-) And > they certainly don't have a big giant comment that begins "YOU ARE NOT > EXPECTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS." in a very important block of the kernel :-) If this is the WORST of what he found, I'd be impressed. One of my buddies whos' managing a pretty good sized project just added a new metric to his reports: "LoP - Lines of Profanity". They're trying to force this to zero before their next public release comes... keith -- Keith Casey http://CaseySoftware.com From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Sat Jun 18 17:22:01 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Sat Jun 18 17:22:24 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <1119045225.2131.159.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, donjr wrote: > > To turnoff the auto-pop-up feature for Gnome it's: > { in an x-terminal } > $ gnome-cd-properties > And on the screen that comes up adjust things to the way you want them. > > Adjustable setting on the window include "what to do" when inserted: > data disc) "just mount" or also "Start auto-run program" > { I always disable the later} > audio CD ) nothing or run some program > Blank CD ) disable or select a possible GUI program > default "gnome-cd --no-desktop...." > DVD (video) ) nothing or "there a few possibles to select from" > > Note: The above should also be where Beartooth should look to adjust > things. Done; to be tested after supper -- I just heard Jo's shower finish, and that means the drinking lamp's lit. Stay tuned. > > > > > My normal work environment consists of nothing but Firefox and > > dozens of xterms. Call me old school I guess, but I get a lot > > more work done from the command line than with the drag and drop > > stuff... > > Yes I also have one or more "Terminal Command line" widows open and > do most of my work and starting of application from these. > It's just faster then a bunch of mouse clicks... True even for me -- in spades -- but only *after* my fingers knkow the commands. I use Pine, and *ix Pine in particular, just because they do know all of those I use. For stuff you aren't sure of or can't quite remember, let alone for heuristic exploration, visual memory and clues work a lot better than commands that have to be character perfect. Which makes sense, come to think of it: after all, the name "pons asinorum," for which GUIs are the vastest example I know, says it all .... -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Sat Jun 18 17:30:13 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Sat Jun 18 17:30:32 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <20050617191854.GA9410@mail.jasonkohles.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Jason Kohles wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 03:13:36PM -0400, Peter Larsen wrote: > > > > Maybe someone here knows if "automount" can deal with launching a CD > > burning tool automaticly? I've not seen it but I'm not totally up to > > date on the latest. > > > If you are using Gnome and have Nautilus installed, then putting a blank > cd in the drive results in Nautilus starting up a burn window you can > drag and drop files into. It *used* to -- and that delighted me, because at least it worked. Then it quit, God knows why. I'll be *very* interested to see what happens next attempt, after your suggested changes to gnome-cd. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Sat Jun 18 17:32:31 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Sat Jun 18 17:32:58 2005 Subject: [novalug] VDQ : How to make Fedora see blank CDs?? In-Reply-To: <46626.66.171.38.4.1119034069.squirrel@66.171.38.4> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Nick Davis wrote: > On my system Mandriva 2005 LE, when I put a blank CD/DVD into the > drive it automatically starts K3B (the burning program). So I just > choose what I want to do from there. The same way you describe > windows as working. I found (using rpm -q) that for some reason my FC1 does not have K3B installed; found an rpm; downloaded, tried rpm -ivh -- and hit dependency hell. I think I'll try to get my mind around adding a yum repo instead. Stay tuned. -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From dsl at zai.com Sat Jun 18 19:41:44 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sat Jun 18 19:41:56 2005 Subject: [novalug] Mepis X problems. In-Reply-To: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <004501c572a0$9a33d870$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42B4B138.8030204@zai.com> Jeff, The problem that you observed with the Mepis X setup is a weakness of that distribution. The Debian distribution itself is hardly any better. It is possible to fix the problem by hand editing the /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file to select a different resolution. You may also need to update the horizontal and vertical frequency limits of the LCD display or change the driver to match the video card in the laptop. The xf86config program provides a way of doing this. This program is ancient and not at all user friendly. It is the only tool that I could find in the Mepis distribution. Examples of good support for X configuration can be found in SuSE and in Fedora core. The video card and even the monitor or display model are determined for you by probing the hardware. You can override the default selection. SuSE lets you experiment with the settings in order to find one that works right for you. Both of these distributions provide a good deal of support for dual monitor installations. SuSE will set up the second monitor at install time. Fedora requires to use their configuration utility after the install to get the second monitor working. The Fedora installation let me get a fully satisfactory configuration with two different monitors with nothing more than mouse clicks through a series of configuration tabs. Dave Jeff Malka wrote: [snip] > Mepis continues to work well on both laptops. On the Dell laptop, I have to > figure out how to make it recognize the higher resolution screen. The > options available to me within Mepis do not go as high as the 1200 x > whatever the dell screen can so on that laptop the Mepis desktop does not > fill the entire screen. More studying to do :-) > > Jeff Malka From dsl at zai.com Sat Jun 18 19:48:49 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sat Jun 18 21:21:50 2005 Subject: [novalug] Win modem in laptop In-Reply-To: <002801c57391$ba22c460$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <002801c57391$ba22c460$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42B4B2E1.4050802@zai.com> Jeff, I don't believe that there is any way to get the win modem working with Linux. One solution is to purchase a Linux-compatible PCMCIA or Cardbus modem and ignore the win modem. Dave Jeff Malka wrote: > > Now I am exploring Linux on the other (non-work) Dell Inspiron laptop. Hit > one snag so far. The win-modem in the laptop is not connecting under Linux. > Not really surprising but not > as easy to replace with a real modem when dealing with a laptop! Will keep > working on it. > > I'm having fun (I think). > > Jeff Malka From mark at winksmith.com Sat Jun 18 21:52:15 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Sat Jun 18 22:16:19 2005 Subject: [novalug] LOL, sounds about right. In-Reply-To: ; from keith.casey@gmail.com on Sat, Jun 18, 2005 at 10:48:33AM -0400 References: <1142.192.168.103.1.1119065296.squirrel@192.168.103.1> <6.2.1.2.0.20050618101144.031e8410@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20050618215215.A12064@winksmith.com> On Sat, Jun 18, 2005 at 10:48:33AM -0400, Keith C wrote: > One of my > buddies whos' managing a pretty good sized project just added a new > metric to his reports: "LoP - Lines of Profanity". hahaha, that reminded me of a story (OT). when i was a youngin just learning the trade. there was this block of code that i *knew* could never be reached, but being obsessive with error checking even back then i put in a message, something to the affect: holy wow, how you get here? or something to that affect and then installed the software. boy, was i ever surprised when i was called into my bosses office the next day. it seems that that explicitive was on everyone's screens that morning. i learned a little bit more about life and about programming from that uncomfortable day. -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From dsl at zai.com Sat Jun 18 22:37:35 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sat Jun 18 22:37:46 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B4DA6F.1020202@zai.com> Let me step in and compare Red Hat, Whitebox, Centos and Tao. There free derivatives on the Red Hat Enterprise series provide a way of running this type of distribution without paying for a support contract. The support contract is mandatory with Red Hat and its price is well above the pain point of most home users. I have been able to afford to Red Hat Enterprise Workstation because of some one-time specials that were offered by Red Hat. The Red Hat site offers an excellent update service and a wideband internet connection when there is a need to download entire distributions. They have extensive online documentation. I have never had a need to call for technical support. At the very least, I can feel that I am doing something to support the company that is spending big bucks to make this distribution happen. Whitebox is largely a one man show focused on supporting the Beauregard Parish Public Library. John Morris is providing a quality product but on his own schedule. Whitebox targets the i686 processor, so this offers the best free performance for that processor. Update services are included, so it is just as easy to do online updates of security fixes as with Red Hat. Centos has a substantial team of developers. Their version of the Enterprise 4 release followed Red Hat by just 72 hours. The target processor is the i386. Updates appear soon after the Red Hat version. Centos also has a good on-line update service. Tao Linux features support for the Itanium processor. An i386 version is also available, I have the Itanium version installed on a machine at work, but I do not really work much with it. Some other processors are supported but this support will be discontinued. My personal opinion is that the free distributions only make sense if you need compatibility with Red Hat but you are working with a hobbyist's budget. I think that SuSE Professional is a better distribution, but it has not achieved the acceptance that Red Hat has earned in the area where I earn a living. I need to know how to work with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, so I use it at home to keep my skills sharp. I have tried rolling my own derivative of Red Hat Enterprise. The exercise has shown my how much work the Whitebox and Centos people have put into the task of building Enterprise derivatives from published source RPMS. I have given up on this effort. Dave Beartooth wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Marc Wehmeyer wrote: > >>Check out http://www.whiteboxlinux.org for a license-unencumbered >>RHEL-based distro. > [....] >>Anyone have any experience with WHEL? > > Or especially able to compare it with CentOS?? > From cmhowe at patriot.net Sun Jun 19 00:37:52 2005 From: cmhowe at patriot.net (Charles M Howe) Date: Sun Jun 19 00:38:09 2005 Subject: [novalug] ls question Message-ID: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> My brain leaks. I asked this question before, got an answer, used it (it worked beautifully) and now can't remember it. Argh! What do I do to preserve the color output when I do ls|less? Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie From djr1952 at hotpop.com Sun Jun 19 03:30:00 2005 From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr) Date: Sun Jun 19 04:30:44 2005 Subject: [novalug] ls question In-Reply-To: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1119166200.2131.202.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 00:37 -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > My brain leaks. I asked this question before, got an answer, used it (it > worked beautifully) and now can't remember it. Argh! > > What do I do to preserve the color output when I do ls|less? > > Charlie, the Perpetual Newbie > Well if you like seeing ANSI escape sequence arrange to pass "--color=always" to ls as in: /bin/ls --color=always | less -- -- Don E. Groves, Jr. =============================================================== A young man goes into a computer games shop. He says to an assistant "I want a challenging computer game with lots of graphics. It should be difficult, confusing and have plenty of contradictions to keep me busy". The assistant replies "Have you tried Windows XP?" From mstone at mathom.us Sun Jun 19 06:36:25 2005 From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone) Date: Sun Jun 19 07:36:34 2005 Subject: [novalug] ls question In-Reply-To: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050619103625.GJ25854@mathom.us> On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 12:37:52AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: >What do I do to preserve the color output when I do ls|less? ls --color | less -r Mike Stone From mark at winksmith.com Sun Jun 19 12:00:01 2005 From: mark at winksmith.com (mark@winksmith.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 12:00:03 2005 Subject: [novalug] ls question In-Reply-To: <20050619103625.GJ25854@mathom.us>; from mstone@mathom.us on Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 06:36:25AM -0400 References: <1119155872.7739.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050619103625.GJ25854@mathom.us> Message-ID: <20050619120001.A22754@winksmith.com> On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 06:36:25AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 12:37:52AM -0400, Charles M Howe wrote: > >What do I do to preserve the color output when I do ls|less? > > ls --color | less -r yes. the reason is that less handles binary data "smartly" (the color sequences are binary in this regard). you can tell less to not strip this data out with the -r in which case, your xterm (or whatever) will handle the embedded color characters normally. the "danger" of this option is that some binary data will whack you xterm. ls won't output anything bad, but if you did something whacky such as "less -r /bin/cat" you'll get undesirable results. -- Mark Smith mark@winksmith.com mark at tux dot org nova-instructor at tux dot org From paulbain at pobox.com Sun Jun 19 12:09:48 2005 From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain) Date: Sun Jun 19 12:08:30 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member - Mepis -- "Dist" upgrading In-Reply-To: <003801c571e9$f1346a70$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> References: <003801c571e9$f1346a70$6e01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <42B598CC.7080808@pobox.com> Jeff Malka wrote: > What I can tell you is that Mepis booted up right out of the CD. Install > was the easiest I have seen. It has a full set of all sorts of > applications > all of which work (except for something about checking weather). So far, I > highly recommend it especially for newbie friendliness. Regarding Mepis, I have heard many good things from many sources, suggesting that it is, indeed, an excellent distribution. I have also read, however, that you cannot reliably upgrade it thus: # apt-get update # apt-get dist-upgrade In fact, I am not even certain whether it can do this: # apt-get upgrade Does anyone know much about upgrading Mepis? This point appears to be one of the disadvantages of many of the "Debian derivative" distributions such as Knoppix and Libranet. For example, many users of Libranet 2.x have reported that they screwed up their systems when they tried to do a "dist-upgrade." --Paul Bain From karhunhammas at Lserv.com Sun Jun 19 12:51:39 2005 From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth) Date: Sun Jun 19 12:52:00 2005 Subject: [novalug] ls question In-Reply-To: <20050619120001.A22754@winksmith.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 mark@winksmith.com wrote: [...] > > ls --color | less -r > > yes. > > the reason is that less handles binary data "smartly" (the color > sequences are binary in this regard). you can tell less to not > strip this data out with the -r in which case, your xterm (or > whatever) will handle the embedded color characters normally. > > the "danger" of this option is that some binary data will whack you > xterm. ls won't output anything bad, but if you did something whacky > such as "less -r /bin/cat" you'll get undesirable results. VDQ : Will that also work with more instead of less? Or had I better fear to tread there? -- Beartooth Implacable, Neo-Redneck Linux Evangelist Freedom is my issue : I'm pro-choice, pro-right-to-die, pro-gun, and pro-term-limits. Without defiance, no liberty. From dsl at zai.com Sun Jun 19 13:29:57 2005 From: dsl at zai.com (David Lerner) Date: Sun Jun 19 13:30:14 2005 Subject: [novalug] Re: New member - Mepis -- "Dist" upgrading In-Reply-To: <42B598CC.7080808@pobox.com> References: <42B598CC.7080808@pobox.com> Message-ID: <42B5AB95.6070008@zai.com> I tried downloading SimplyMEPIS CD from www.mepis.com. It is a nice rescue CD that also brings up an "Install Me" icon on the desktop. Clicking this will install a copy of the CD on the hard disk. The copy is decompressed so that it occupies about 1.8 GB on on disk. The sequence apt-get update and apt-get upgrade installed nothing. This is probably because the CD version was just a few days old and there are no updates available. The installed system does not have the range of software that you would expect from a full distribution. In fairness, the free download is not a full distribution. An OEM version is available for $40 with no manuals. The full home version is $55. Software from the full version cannot be installed with apt-get or otherwise downloaded without a subscription. The synaptic application does allow you to turn on any of the Debian sources. You can use this to install applications to your heart's content. My attempt at a full upgrade left me with a mostly Debian distribution. I did not trust it as an improvement to Debian, and I quickly removed it. I was not attempting a fair evaluation but there was nothing that I saw that would lead me to recommend Mepis over Ubuntu for a new user of over Debian Sarge for a more experienced user. Dave Paul D. Bain wrote: > Jeff Malka wrote: >>What I can tell you is that Mepis booted up right out of the CD. Install >>was the easiest I have seen. It has a full set of all sorts of >>applications >>all of which work (except for something about checking weather). So far, I