From ChrisB at drs-c3.com  Mon May  1 06:30:49 2006
From: ChrisB at drs-c3.com (Benfield, Chris)
Date: Mon May  1 06:43:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Solaris 8 autologin with dtlogin
Message-ID: <CC2C6D1A57E90C429E1C8547FF34161C01000830@whitevarda.c3.drs.master>

Does anyone know how to setup an auto login using dtlogin on Solaris 8? If not any ideas where to look, google didn't provide much help for Solaris 8. Solaris 10 is different. 
 
Please don't ask why, it's a customer requirement for a non-networked machine in a secure environment. 
 
Thanks 
 
Chris Benfield 
Senior Engineering Technician 
 
DRS C3 Systems, LLC. 
301-258-7919 
chrisb@drs-c3.com 
 
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From truegsegger at csc.com  Mon May  1 10:48:35 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Mon May  1 13:42:14 2006
Subject: [novalug] Red Hat comes to NOVALUG this Saturday
Message-ID: <OF4533A158.BDCBEA56-ON04257161.00505045-04257161.00515AF8@csc.com>

The Northern Virginia Linux Users Group (NOVALUG) is back at CSC
Saturday, May 6, 10am to Noon in the Auditorium at WTP, 15000
Conference Center Drive, Chantilly VA.

This month:
_________________________
Red Hat will discuss the Fedora Project and FC5 specifically.

Note: Visits from Red Hat tend to pack the auditorium; plan
accordingly.
_________________________

There will be time for other discussions, so bring questions.

Orientation: if you're on Conference Center Drive looking at the front
door, you're looking West.

You will enter by the rear Commons doors at the Northwest/lower corner
of the building, so park in any of the nearby lots. I, or another CSC
employee, will let you in, and you'll be a few steps from the
auditorium.

Important Note: Be careful when leaving and don't trip on the step
down just outside the door. Please remind each other, since we all
tend to be caught up in conversation after a meeting and could easily
overlook the step.

Anyone and everyone is welcome to attend NOVALUG's meetings.  If you
need directions, please let me know (truegsegger@csc.com,
703-818-4155).

From bidwell at dead-city.org  Mon May  1 14:11:39 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Mon May  1 15:11:43 2006
Subject: [novalug] Red Hat comes to NOVALUG this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <OF4533A158.BDCBEA56-ON04257161.00505045-04257161.00515AF8@csc.com>
References: <OF4533A158.BDCBEA56-ON04257161.00505045-04257161.00515AF8@csc.com>
Message-ID: <44564F5B.2060105@dead-city.org>

Theodore Ruegsegger wrote:
> The Northern Virginia Linux Users Group (NOVALUG) is back at CSC
> Saturday, May 6, 10am to Noon in the Auditorium at WTP, 15000
> Conference Center Drive, Chantilly VA.
> 
> This month:
> _________________________
> Red Hat will discuss the Fedora Project and FC5 specifically.
> 
> Note: Visits from Red Hat tend to pack the auditorium; plan
> accordingly.
> _________________________
<snip for brevity>
As a side note, this will be the last time I'll be
able to make it out to a meeting.  I'm moving on
to greener pastures in the Research Triangle Park
area of North Carolina.  I'd like to thank everyone
for all their help over these last 7 or 8 years
to make me a better and more confident linux user.

See you Saturday,
Matt
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Mon May  1 16:17:14 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Mon May  1 16:17:24 2006
Subject: [novalug] Too many kernels?
In-Reply-To: <1146420369.17228.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290704270.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<445384CE.3050605@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290846240.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<4454B8AD.8050105@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604300634330.29164@titan.lserv.com>
	<1146420369.17228.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605011314350.29164@titan.lserv.com>

[...]
>> Nor do I know how to look in the package when I find it ....
>
> Well there are a number of ways:
>  )from the command line:
>    for an installed packages it's:
>     $ rpm --query --list PACKAGE_NAME
>
>  )for a package file {ie a .rpm sitting on your disk} it's:
>     $ rpm --query --list --package PACKAGE_FILE
>
> (see man rpm for further details)
>
> There are also a number of tools that make both of the above 
> even easier.
>
> If while using the "Gnome Directory" viewer (nautilus) you are 
> looking at a directory where a Package type file is (type: RPM 
> package) it will by default have a "Package icon" and you have 
> the "File Roller" package installed (normally installed by 
> default when you install Gnome by most distribution installers) 
> all you have to do in double-click to open the package and look 
> inside it.

 	Is there a trick in the name of that?

[root@localhost ~]# yum install fileroller
Setting up Install Process
Setting up repositories
core 
[1/3]
core                      100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 
00:00
updates 
[2/3]
updates                   100% |=========================|  951 B 
00:00
extras 
[3/3]
extras                    100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 
00:00
Reading repository metadata in from local files
primary.xml.gz            100% |=========================| 1.0 MB 
00:15
extras    : ################################################## 
2911/2911
Added 855 new packages, deleted 179 old in 11.13 seconds
Parsing package install arguments
No Match for argument: fileroller
Nothing to do
[root@localhost ~]# rpm -q fileroller
package fileroller is not installed
[root@localhost ~]#

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From dac at cafaro.net  Mon May  1 16:34:24 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Mon May  1 16:34:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] Red Hat comes to NOVALUG this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <44564F5B.2060105@dead-city.org>
References: <OF4533A158.BDCBEA56-ON04257161.00505045-04257161.00515AF8@csc.com>
	<44564F5B.2060105@dead-city.org>
Message-ID: <1146515664.2539.34.camel@falstaff>

Well good luck to you, and be sure to check out www.trilug.org when you
get down there.  Good bunch of people and a great resource.  Was the
first LUG I was a member of.

Cheers,
David

On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 14:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
> As a side note, this will be the last time I'll be
> able to make it out to a meeting.  I'm moving on
> to greener pastures in the Research Triangle Park
> area of North Carolina.  I'd like to thank everyone
> for all their help over these last 7 or 8 years
> to make me a better and more confident linux user.
> 
> See you Saturday,
> Matt

-- 
David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>
The Any Key: http://web14.compaq.com/falco/detail.asp?FAQnum=FAQ2859

From bidwell at dead-city.org  Mon May  1 17:20:37 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Mon May  1 17:20:44 2006
Subject: [novalug] Red Hat comes to NOVALUG this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <1146515664.2539.34.camel@falstaff>
References: <OF4533A158.BDCBEA56-ON04257161.00505045-04257161.00515AF8@csc.com>	
	<44564F5B.2060105@dead-city.org>
	<1146515664.2539.34.camel@falstaff>
Message-ID: <44567BA5.8000500@dead-city.org>

David A. Cafaro wrote:
> Well good luck to you, and be sure to check out www.trilug.org when you
> get down there.  Good bunch of people and a great resource.  Was the
> first LUG I was a member of.
> 
> Cheers,
> David
> 
> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 14:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
>> As a side note, this will be the last time I'll be
>> able to make it out to a meeting.  I'm moving on
>> to greener pastures in the Research Triangle Park
>> area of North Carolina.  I'd like to thank everyone
>> for all their help over these last 7 or 8 years
>> to make me a better and more confident linux user.
>>
>> See you Saturday,
>> Matt
> 
Thanks!
I've already joined it in digest form.

Matt
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May  1 16:57:03 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May  1 17:57:24 2006
Subject: [novalug] Too many kernels?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605011314350.29164@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290704270.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<445384CE.3050605@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290846240.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<4454B8AD.8050105@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604300634330.29164@titan.lserv.com>
	<1146420369.17228.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605011314350.29164@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1146517023.17228.65.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 13:17 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
> [...]
> >> Nor do I know how to look in the package when I find it ....
> >
> > Well there are a number of ways:
> >  )from the command line:
> >    for an installed packages it's:
> >     $ rpm --query --list PACKAGE_NAME
> >
> >  )for a package file {ie a .rpm sitting on your disk} it's:
> >     $ rpm --query --list --package PACKAGE_FILE
> >
> > (see man rpm for further details)
> >
> > There are also a number of tools that make both of the above 
> > even easier.
> >
> > If while using the "Gnome Directory" viewer (nautilus) you are 
> > looking at a directory where a Package type file is (type: RPM 
> > package) it will by default have a "Package icon" and you have 
> > the "File Roller" package installed (normally installed by 
> > default when you install Gnome by most distribution installers) 
> > all you have to do in double-click to open the package and look 
> > inside it.
> 
>  	Is there a trick in the name of that?
> 
> [root@localhost ~]# yum install fileroller
> Setting up Install Process
> Setting up repositories
> core 
> [1/3]
> core                      100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 
> 00:00
> updates 
> [2/3]
> updates                   100% |=========================|  951 B 
> 00:00
> extras 
> [3/3]
> extras                    100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 
> 00:00
> Reading repository metadata in from local files
> primary.xml.gz            100% |=========================| 1.0 MB 
> 00:15
> extras    : ################################################## 
> 2911/2911
> Added 855 new packages, deleted 179 old in 11.13 seconds
> Parsing package install arguments
> No Match for argument: fileroller
> Nothing to do
> [root@localhost ~]# rpm -q fileroller
> package fileroller is not installed
> [root@localhost ~]#

Well the package name that supplies the "File Roller" feature under
Ubuntu is called "file-roller".
 { And the name of the executable is /usr/bin/file-roller }

And a quick Google for: fileroller
Pointed out that the RPM package is also called "file-roller".
 {Although a Google for: File Roller  
  would also of told you as much.}

So I guess that since you pointed out that you use "yum" that:

#  yum install file-roller

should install the package, if it's not already installed.
 {but this is only a GUESS. Note I've never used/installed "yum" or for
that matter any of the Fedora Core based distributions.}

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
Must I hold a candle to my shames? 
 -- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May  2 08:47:34 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May  2 08:47:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Too many kernels?
In-Reply-To: <1146517023.17228.65.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290704270.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<445384CE.3050605@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604290846240.13944@titan.lserv.com>
	<4454B8AD.8050105@propheteer.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0604300634330.29164@titan.lserv.com>
	<1146420369.17228.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605011314350.29164@titan.lserv.com>
	<1146517023.17228.65.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605020544050.8798@titan.lserv.com>

On Mon, 1 May 2006, donjr wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-05-01 at 13:17 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
>>>
>>> If while using the "Gnome Directory" viewer (nautilus) you 
>>> are looking at a directory where a Package type file is 
>>> (type: RPM package) it will by default have a "Package icon" 
>>> and you have the "File Roller" package installed (normally 
>>> installed by default when you install Gnome by most 
>>> distribution installers) all you have to do in double-click 
>>> to open the package and look inside it.
>>
>>  	Is there a trick in the name of that?
>
> Well the package name that supplies the "File Roller" feature 
> under Ubuntu is called "file-roller". { And the name of the 
> executable is /usr/bin/file-roller }
>
> And a quick Google for: fileroller Pointed out that the RPM 
> package is also called "file-roller". {Although a Google for: 
> File Roller would also of told you as much.}

 	Because google ignores punctuation, I suppose; hmmm ...

 	I used to see it, and had recently gone on a purging 
binge -- and had never used that ...

> So I guess that since you pointed out that you use "yum" that:
>
> #  yum install file-roller
>
> should install the package, if it's not already installed.
> {but this is only a GUESS. Note I've never used/installed "yum" or for
> that matter any of the Fedora Core based distributions.}

 	That worked, or at least yum said it did; but the icon 
hasn't shown up in the Main Menu yet. I suspect I'll have to log 
out and back in before it does; that happens every once in a 
while. Many thanks!

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From malloryd at themallorys.us  Tue May  2 10:10:09 2006
From: malloryd at themallorys.us (Duane C. Mallory)
Date: Tue May  2 10:21:18 2006
Subject: [novalug] Amazon dumps Google
Message-ID: <44576841.7080001@themallorys.us>

I see Amazon dumped Google for MS A9 Web search. Does anyone know what 
Amazon runs their web site on? I had at one time thought it was IBM or 
Sun, but now I wonder.

Best Regards,

DCM
From linux_author at verizon.net  Tue May  2 12:57:26 2006
From: linux_author at verizon.net (billy b.)
Date: Tue May  2 13:57:57 2006
Subject: [novalug] Amazon dumps Google
In-Reply-To: <44576841.7080001@themallorys.us>
References: <44576841.7080001@themallorys.us>
Message-ID: <0cc4833f1b40c07c39e4b0ceaf2753d3@verizon.net>


linux, if my eyes don't deceive:

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.amazon.com

bb

On May 2, 2006, at 10:10 AM, Duane C. Mallory wrote:

> I see Amazon dumped Google for MS A9 Web search. Does anyone know what 
> Amazon runs their web site on? I had at one time thought it was IBM or 
> Sun, but now I wonder.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> DCM
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From marlowe at antagonism.org  Tue May  2 17:46:37 2006
From: marlowe at antagonism.org (marlowe)
Date: Tue May  2 18:17:12 2006
Subject: [novalug] Books and Magazines to Give Away
Message-ID: <4457D33D.6050309@antagonism.org>

All,

Doing some spring cleaning around the house, I decided to donate the 
O'Reilly books and Sys Admin magazines I am no longer using.  Below is a 
list of the books I am willing to donate.  Please contact me off the 
list regarding any books you want.  I will be at the meeting this 
Saturday to deliver them.

Thanks,
Patrick

TCL/TK in a Nutshell
Managing IMAP
Network Printing
Using Samba
Mastering Algorithms with Perl
Mastering Regular Expressions
Java in a Nutshell
Learning Java
From pereira at speakeasy.net  Wed May  3 10:04:19 2006
From: pereira at speakeasy.net (Nino Pereira)
Date: Wed May  3 10:31:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] compile under linux, execute under windows
Message-ID: <1146665059.1589.140.camel@lithium>

List,

I have a fortran program that I want to compile on my linux
box, and then transfer to a computer running windows. Before
I try that, and tie myself in knots, can you give me some guidance?

Does this work?

Nino


From chessman at tux.org  Wed May  3 11:10:49 2006
From: chessman at tux.org (Samuel S Chessman)
Date: Wed May  3 11:10:53 2006
Subject: [novalug] compile under linux, execute under windows
In-Reply-To: <1146665059.1589.140.camel@lithium>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0605031105160.13019-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Wed, 3 May 2006, Nino Pereira wrote:

> List,
>
> I have a fortran program that I want to compile on my linux
> box, and then transfer to a computer running windows. Before
> I try that, and tie myself in knots, can you give me some guidance?
>
> Does this work?
>
> Nino

Short answer: no, this does not work.

The DLLs in windows and the shared libraries in linux are (mostly) incompatible
and the operating system API is not compatible or interoperable.

One could conceive of a linux installation using Wine that allowed
windows .exe files to be created.  To do this you will have to identify
a Fortran compiler that runs under windows and get that to work in Wine,
as well as get Wine to work.

You will find it much simpler to install cygwin gcc-f77 under windows and
compile with cygwin.

-- 
   Sam Chessman                                         chessman (a) tux.org
    First do what's necessary, then what's possible, finally the impossible.

From greg at pryzby.org  Wed May  3 15:54:19 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Wed May  3 16:14:38 2006
Subject: [novalug] O'Reilly UG Program News: DSUG Discount Changes
Message-ID: <20060503195419.GG333@pryzby.org>

----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com> -----

From: Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com>
Subject: O'Reilly UG Program News: DSUG Discount Changes

Hello, 

Can you please let your members know about the increase in our user
group discount? You can post this to your mailing list, web site, or in
your newsletter and please make sure you mention this at your next
meeting.

Get 30% off a single book or 35% off two or more books from O'Reilly, No
Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or
Syngress books you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG
when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. Free ground shipping on
orders $29.95 or more in the US. 
<http://www.oreilly.com/store/>

Other benefits you receive when you buy directly from O'Reilly include:

*100% Satisfaction Guarantee* 
If, for any reason, you're not completely satisfied with your purchase,
return it to us and get your money back. A return shipping label is
included with every direct purchase, and directions are posted online in
case you've misplaced it:
<http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/cs/guarantee.csp>.

*Safari Enabled* 
Whenever possible, our books are "Safari Enabled." This means you can
access your book for free online for 45 days through the O'Reilly Safari
Bookshelf. How do you know if your book is Safari Enabled? Turn your
book over and look for the "Safari Enabled" logo on the bottom right of
the page. If it's there, flip through the last couple pages of your book
until you find directions for accessing your book online.

*Booktech* 
Have a question about your book? O'Reilly is the only publisher that
offers tech support for books. Send an email to
<bookquestions@oreilly.com> and we'll help you out. Be specific: Include
the book title and page number. It's also a good idea to include the
ISBN so we know what edition you have.

*Reader Reviews* 
Our reader reviews are read by most people at O'Reilly, including Tim
O'Reilly, all our editors, as well as sales, marketing, and PR. So if
you have praise, a gripe, or ideas for improvement, writing a reader
review on oreilly.com is a sure way for your voice to be heard. Just go
to your book's catalog page on oreilly.com and click the "Write a
Review" button.

*Book Registration* 
Register your book online and we'll notify you when the book has been
updated or a new edition is available. You can also win books and other
prizes. Haven't registered your books? Just go to
<http://www.oreilly.com/go/register>.

*Newsletters* 
Our newsletters keep you updated on the latest articles, books, news,
and events. A complete list of newsletters and lists can be found at
<http://elists.oreilly.com/>.

We're working on a slew of additional benefits to serve you even better
so stay tuned.

As always, thanks for your help spreading the word.

Marsee Henon

================================================================
O'Reilly 
1005 Gravenstein Highway North  
Sebastopol, CA   95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/
================================================================

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From clif at cflynt.com  Wed May  3 15:54:31 2006
From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt)
Date: Wed May  3 16:23:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] compile under linux, execute under windows
Message-ID: <20060503195431.GA20280@clif.cflynt.com>

On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 10:04:19AM -0400, Nino Pereira wrote:
> List,
> 
> I have a fortran program that I want to compile on my linux
> box, and then transfer to a computer running windows. Before
> I try that, and tie myself in knots, can you give me some guidance?
> 

On the whole, no.  As mentioned by others, the *.dll and *.so
libraries won't match.

What I have done is to run a Fortran compiler in a VMWare session
running Windoes on my Linux box.

I've used the appropriate version of the Lahey Fortran compiler on both
Linux (RH 7.3) and Windows.  The executables built on the RH 7.3 system
run happily on SuSE 10.0.

Clif

-- 
.... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
.............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May  3 19:33:54 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May  3 19:34:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>

 	In a fit of stupefaction unusually egregious even for me, 
I have stared into the abyss, and eventually it stared back : I 
fell into one of the oldest and deepest traps for the autodidact 
and other ill-instructed linux-lovers.

 	I decided to try out two or three of the new GUI updaters 
in FC5 by going through and trying to pick out unneeded apps to 
remove -- on three machines at once, two PCs and a ppc. (It was 
part of a wishful project to make them alike ...)

 	Somewhere in a list, probably in pup or pirut, I found 
two or three, maybe more, gnome items that I couldn't imagine 
using. And wiped them.

 	Now, of course, I can't run Gnome at all. And it's the 
onlyiest GUI I have any use for, or want to.

 	Worst and dumbest of all, I have no list of what all I 
devastated.

 	I can still boot them and get into them with ssh from the 
remaining usable machine; or I can do some things from a single 
command line; but I stand or fall by visual memory and the GUI, 
for most things I do, and any other than Gnome is just too fierce 
to mention.

 	So how, with yum, yumex, pup, pirut, or if need be any 
other (particularly ssh, but including of course the install 
media), can I restore a full working installation of Gnome to 
these machines?? (Worst of all, one is my main machine, and I'm 
having to howl for help from what oughtta be the map machine 
only.) I'm too old to suffer so .... <sob, gasp, pant, whimper, 
sniff>

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May  3 19:51:02 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May  3 19:51:06 2006
Subject: update Re: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031638150.10624@titan.lserv.com>

On Wed, 3 May 2006, Beartooth wrote:

> 	In a fit of stupefaction unusually egregious even for me, 
> I have stared into the abyss, and eventually it stared back : I 
> fell into one of the oldest and deepest traps for the 
> autodidact and other ill-instructed linux-lovers.
[...]
> 	Somewhere in a list, probably in pup or pirut, I found 
> two or three, maybe more, gnome items that I couldn't imagine 
> using. And wiped them.
>
> 	Now, of course, I can't run Gnome at all. And it's the 
> onlyiest GUI I have any use for, or want to.
>
  I'm too old to suffer so .... <sob, gasp, pant, whimper,
> sniff>

 	There's an old saying that sometimes, if you try hard 
enough and suffer long enough, *maybe* the Grace of God just 
might possible enter. I tried yum install gnome while ssh'd in, 
and got zilch. Then the thought descended that yum install 
gnome-* might be different.

 	It did it.

 	Of course, I got a lot more cruft than I started with -- 
gnome-games, for instance; I don't do games on computers. That 
would be like taking up fishing or photography (again): Whatever 
may be left of my life, it sure ain't enough to get back out of 
such a quicksand as that, if I ever get in ...

 	And I don't know yet if that means I still have any of my 
innumerable tweaks, or can even run Gnome again ... Stay tuned.

 	So is there a SAFE way to tell what's expendable?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From nick at mrtizmo.com  Wed May  3 19:52:17 2006
From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis)
Date: Wed May  3 19:52:23 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <32776.69.243.115.214.1146700337.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>

Well to figure out what you removed, look in /var/log/syslog or /var/log/messages. On
my Mandriva system there is an entry in one or both of those logs each time I install
or uninstall an RPM.

Second, looking into those two files will give you an idea of what software/libraries
are missing. So you can then install the needed libraries.

And to install what you are missing.. doesn't yum have the apt-get like ability to do
dependency checking? So you could just do "yum --install gnome-games" or something
like that?

One possible saving idea is that most systems by default will install IceWM or one
other light window manager. So if you can at least get GDM to start up to the login
screen, you can pick the other window manager's when you login and go from there.

HTH's
Nick Davis


>  	I decided to try out two or three of the new GUI updaters
> in FC5 by going through and trying to pick out unneeded apps to
> remove -- on three machines at once, two PCs and a ppc. (It was
> part of a wishful project to make them alike ...)
>
>  	Somewhere in a list, probably in pup or pirut, I found
> two or three, maybe more, gnome items that I couldn't imagine
> using. And wiped them.
>
>  	Now, of course, I can't run Gnome at all. And it's the
> onlyiest GUI I have any use for, or want to.
>
>  	Worst and dumbest of all, I have no list of what all I
> devastated.
>
>  	I can still boot them and get into them with ssh from the
> remaining usable machine; or I can do some things from a single
> command line; but I stand or fall by visual memory and the GUI,
> for most things I do, and any other than Gnome is just too fierce
> to mention.
>
>  	So how, with yum, yumex, pup, pirut, or if need be any
> other (particularly ssh, but including of course the install
> media), can I restore a full working installation of Gnome to
> these machines?? (Worst of all, one is my main machine, and I'm
> having to howl for help from what oughtta be the map machine
> only.) I'm too old to suffer so .... <sob, gasp, pant, whimper,
> sniff>
>
> --
> Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
> Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May  3 19:59:40 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May  3 19:59:44 2006
Subject: [novalug] Possible interest : autopackage etc (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031657250.10624@titan.lserv.com>


 	http://autopackage.org/ui-vision.html

 	Comments from the knowledgeable?
-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless
Fedora Power User by the Grace of the Net
From paulbain at pobox.com  Wed May  3 20:26:56 2006
From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain)
Date: Wed May  3 20:24:34 2006
Subject: [novalug] autopackage - package management
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031657250.10624@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031657250.10624@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <44594A50.4080201@pobox.com>

Beartooth wrote:
> 
>     http://autopackage.org/ui-vision.html
> 
>     Comments from the knowledgeable?

	I am not necessarily an expert on this topic, but will offer an opinion 
nevertheless. My understanding of this software project, autoPackage, is 
that it is of greatest interest to die-hard users of Slackware Linux, 
which has no "built-in" package manager (PM), in contrast to most Linux 
distributions these days. Indeed, I think that Slackware is probably the 
_last_ of the major distributions that still lacks a PM. All of the 
other major distributions seem to have a PM, e.g., RPM+(yum or APT), 
Debian's dpkg+APT, or Gentoo's emerge.

Sincerely,
Paul Bain
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May  3 20:27:40 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May  3 20:27:43 2006
Subject: update Re: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
In-Reply-To: <44594658.70208@tux.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031542170.10624@titan.lserv.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031638150.10624@titan.lserv.com>
	<44594658.70208@tux.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031727020.10624@titan.lserv.com>

On Wed, 3 May 2006, Novalug wrote:

> Beartooth Sciurivenator wrote:
>
>> So is there a SAFE way to tell what's expendable?
>
> To find what a package does, you can usually google it.  If 
> it's an rpm, you can also look for it on repositories such as 
> rpmfind or freshmeat, or there may even be a way to ask rpm. 
> (Can't tell, 'cuz I'm not on a RH/FC system right now.  In 
> fact, I'm on my Mac.)

 	Well, yes, no doubt; but life is finite ....

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From nick at mrtizmo.com  Wed May  3 21:18:19 2006
From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis)
Date: Wed May  3 21:18:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] got a KVM switch that works w/ linux
Message-ID: <32797.69.243.115.214.1146705499.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>

I know every few months we have a discussion about KVM switches that work with linux.
I just picked up this one on newegg.com:

Link Depot KVM-141 4-port KVM Switch w/ 4 sets of cables (mouse/keyboard are PS/2)

It works great with both linux and windows boxes I've got connected to it.

You can use "Scroll Lock", "Scroll Lock", "1,2,3,4" to switch between connected
machines, or you can push the button on the KVM switch if you want.

The best part is that it only cost me $35+S/H!

Just thought I'd let you all know in case anyone is still searching for one of these
things.

HTH's
Nick Davis
From bdalzell at qis.net  Wed May  3 23:23:25 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Wed May  3 23:54:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] auto mount cd's
In-Reply-To: <32797.69.243.115.214.1146705499.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605032321430.29630-100000@eclipse>


on my ubuntu installation - any cd which is in the drive when I boot up is
mounted - but if a remove it, it a new cd cannot be remounted except by
root. any suggestions on how to get a cd to be able to auto mount.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From e.goforth at computer.org  Thu May  4 00:14:05 2006
From: e.goforth at computer.org (Ed Goforth)
Date: Thu May  4 00:40:12 2006
Subject: [novalug] auto mount cd's
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605032321430.29630-100000@eclipse>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605032321430.29630-100000@eclipse>
Message-ID: <44597F8D.7060809@computer.org>

The exact change depends on the line in your /etc/fstab file.  If you
don't want it to auto mount at startup, add "noauto" to the options.  If
you want anyone to be able to mount a disc, add "user" to the options.
Note that neither of these will cause the disc to auto mount on new
insertion; that's usually handled by some user-space daemon.

ex:
/dev/hdd /cdrom iso9660 user,exec,ro,noauto,owner 0 0


Ed


Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
> on my ubuntu installation - any cd which is in the drive when I boot up is
> mounted - but if a remove it, it a new cd cannot be remounted except by
> root. any suggestions on how to get a cd to be able to auto mount.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                        Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
> mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
>  
> freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
> breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
>  
> Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
> HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From bdalzell at qis.net  Thu May  4 01:18:37 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Thu May  4 01:18:40 2006
Subject: [novalug] auto mount cd's
In-Reply-To: <44597F8D.7060809@computer.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605040117520.4792-100000@eclipse>

On Thu, 4 May 2006, Ed Goforth wrote:

EG >The exact change depends on the line in your /etc/fstab file.  If you
EG >don't want it to auto mount at startup, add "noauto" to the options.  If
EG >you want anyone to be able to mount a disc, add "user" to the options.
EG >Note that neither of these will cause the disc to auto mount on new

EG >insertion; that's usually handled by some user-space daemon.

could you please explain "user-space daemon"? ignorant minds wish to know.

EG >
EG >ex:
EG >/dev/hdd /cdrom iso9660 user,exec,ro,noauto,owner 0 0
EG >
EG >
EG >Ed
EG >
EG >
EG >Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
EG >> on my ubuntu installation - any cd which is in the drive when I boot up is
EG >> mounted - but if a remove it, it a new cd cannot be remounted except by
EG >> root. any suggestions on how to get a cd to be able to auto mount.
EG >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EG >>                        Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
EG >> mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
EG >>  
EG >> freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
EG >> breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
EG >>  
EG >> Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
EG >> HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com
EG >> 
EG >> 
EG >> _______________________________________________
EG >> novalug mailing list
EG >> novalug@tux.org
EG >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
EG >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
EG >> 
EG >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From e.goforth at computer.org  Thu May  4 01:53:05 2006
From: e.goforth at computer.org (Ed Goforth)
Date: Thu May  4 01:53:13 2006
Subject: [novalug] auto mount cd's
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605040117520.4792-100000@eclipse>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605040117520.4792-100000@eclipse>
Message-ID: <445996C1.3050606@computer.org>



Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
> On Thu, 4 May 2006, Ed Goforth wrote:
> 
> EG >The exact change depends on the line in your /etc/fstab file.  If you
> EG >don't want it to auto mount at startup, add "noauto" to the options.  If
> EG >you want anyone to be able to mount a disc, add "user" to the options.
> EG >Note that neither of these will cause the disc to auto mount on new
> 
> EG >insertion; that's usually handled by some user-space daemon.
> 
> could you please explain "user-space daemon"? ignorant minds wish to know.

The term just means that it's not something that's handled internally to
the kernel.  Instead, there is some software running that handles the
task.  Some examples of user-space automount daemons are magicdev (used
by Gnome), gnome-volume-manager and Ivman
(http://ivman.sourceforge.net/) which is a handler for HAL (Hardware
Abstraction Layer) events.

An example of a completely different kind of user-space daemon would be
proftpd/ftpd for allowing incoming ftp.

On your original question,
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-22640.html has some
Ubuntu-specific suggestions (which applet to add to your panel, etc).

Hope this helps,
Ed
From greg at pryzby.org  Thu May  4 06:31:34 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Thu May  4 07:02:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday
Message-ID: <20060504103134.GA3554@pryzby.org>

red hat will be at the meeting to talk about fc5 and the fedora project

lets see if we can fill the place like last time

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Thu May  4 08:49:06 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Thu May  4 08:49:09 2006
Subject: [novalug] Epiphany trouble
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605040548170.19795@titan.lserv.com>


Trying to run a backup machine while my main one is bollixed 
worse than usual, I get this error message when I try to launch 
Epiphany (under FC5) :

Startup failed because of the following error: Failed to connect 
to socket /tmp/dbus-ew4gLGoRks: Connection refused

What does it mean, and what can I do about it?? I run privoxy, 
but that seems not to be the problem ....

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Thu May  4 10:17:15 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Thu May  4 10:44:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Are you a Speakeasy customer?
Message-ID: <20060504141715.12040.qmail@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>

I could really use the help one Speakeasy DSL
customer, offlist.  The favor will take you 2 minutes
in front of your PC.  Thanks in advance for your help!

-Ben

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Thu May  4 11:14:46 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Thu May  4 11:41:34 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT:  DONE: Are you a Speakeasy customer?
In-Reply-To: <20060504141715.12040.qmail@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060504151446.74334.qmail@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you all for your responses!  All done!

--- ben creitz <benjaminworthcreitz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I could really use the help one Speakeasy DSL
> customer, offlist.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From truegsegger at csc.com  Thu May  4 07:57:36 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Thu May  4 12:00:45 2006
Subject: update Re: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605031638150.10624@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <OF4AE7BEBA.9EC51515-ON04257164.00415AA1-04257164.0041B397@csc.com>

Beartooth wrote:

> ...That would be like taking up fishing or photography (again):
> Whatever may be left of my life, it sure ain't enough to get back
> out of such a quicksand as that, if I ever get in ...

Well, I don't know about fishing, but you're dead-on about
photography!

Glad you got your GNOME working again.

Ted

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Thu May  4 12:46:42 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Thu May  4 12:46:50 2006
Subject: update Re: [novalug] VVDQ : restore/reinstall Gnome??
In-Reply-To: <OF4AE7BEBA.9EC51515-ON04257164.00415AA1-04257164.0041B397@csc.com>
References: <OF4AE7BEBA.9EC51515-ON04257164.00415AA1-04257164.0041B397@csc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605040938030.19795@titan.lserv.com>

On Thu, 4 May 2006, Theodore Ruegsegger wrote:

> Beartooth wrote:
>
>> ...That would be like taking up fishing or photography 
>> (again): Whatever may be left of my life, it sure ain't enough 
>> to get back out of such a quicksand as that, if I ever get in 
>> ...
>
> Well, I don't know about fishing, but you're dead-on about 
> photography!

 	I did do photography, as a teenager, with one of the 
first SLR 35 mm ; I haven't fished, but I've seen stores for 
fishermen, and their tackle boxes; and I got halfway to taking up 
muzzleloaders once ...

> Glad you got your GNOME working again.

 	Alas! Of the three, *one* is now working correctly -- 
and that's the old p2. Neither the .ppc nor (alas! alack! woe is 
me!) what I call my main machine is right yet. The .ppc goes to 
KDE even if you tell it Gnome. The main machine (one that an 
electronic friend in California built for me) doesn't even do 
that. A couple times it popped up a question whether to restore 
Epiphany, and then opened it if I said yes. Now it just creates a 
bare dark blue screen -- no prompt, nothing to click on, nuth'n.

 	That one does have xfce; but what it calls a terminal has 
one font : microscopic. I'm gonna hafta do whatever I can over 
ssh from this one. I'll try looking in those logs ...

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From paulbain at pobox.com  Thu May  4 15:53:30 2006
From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain)
Date: Thu May  4 15:51:07 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday - air conditioning?
In-Reply-To: <20060504103134.GA3554@pryzby.org>
References: <20060504103134.GA3554@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <445A5BBA.2080005@pobox.com>

gregory pryzby wrote:
> red hat will be at the meeting to talk about fc5 and the fedora project
> 
> lets see if we can fill the place like last time

	If the auditorium becomes as full as it did the last time that Red Hat 
spoke at one of our meetings (Oct or Nov. 2002, IIRC), then the 
auditorium may become warm very quickly. Will Ted R. be able to ensure 
that we have adequate air conditioning?

	BTW, in the June issue of L.Journal, Nicholas Petreley, who is now the 
Editor-in-chief of L.Journal, panned FC5. I would like to know RH's 
response to him.

Sincerely,
Paul Bain
From truegsegger at csc.com  Thu May  4 16:48:20 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Thu May  4 16:48:41 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday - air conditioning?
In-Reply-To: <445A5BBA.2080005@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <OF4F81C5CA.A4005EA9-ON04257164.0071A4B8-04257164.00724B01@csc.com>

Paul wrote:

> If the auditorium becomes as full as it did the last time that Red
> Hat spoke at one of our meetings (Oct or Nov. 2002, IIRC), then the
> auditorium may become warm very quickly. Will Ted R. be able to
> ensure that we have adequate air conditioning?

Ted R. can ensure no such thing, though he can make requests to the
Facilities folks (who aren't around on weekends). Not sure what it is
you want me to request, though. Either the AC unit can handle it, or
it can't.

In point of fact, there's a legal maximum on occupancy, so I'd prefer
not to raise the issue...

Ted

From paulbain at pobox.com  Thu May  4 19:36:47 2006
From: paulbain at pobox.com (Paul D. Bain)
Date: Thu May  4 19:34:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday - air conditioning?
In-Reply-To: <OF4F81C5CA.A4005EA9-ON04257164.0071A4B8-04257164.00724B01@csc.com>
References: <OF4F81C5CA.A4005EA9-ON04257164.0071A4B8-04257164.00724B01@csc.com>
Message-ID: <445A900F.8050201@pobox.com>

Theodore Ruegsegger wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> 
> 
>>If the auditorium becomes as full as it did the last time that Red
>>Hat spoke at one of our meetings (Oct or Nov. 2002, IIRC), then the
>>auditorium may become warm very quickly. Will Ted R. be able to
>>ensure that we have adequate air conditioning?
> 
> 
> Ted R. can ensure no such thing, though he can make requests to the
> Facilities folks (who aren't around on weekends). Not sure what it is
> you want me to request, though. Either the AC unit can handle it, or
> it can't.

Ted,

	Thanks for this information. IIRC, in years past, it has been a bit 
warm in the auditorium during the April and May meetings, leading me to 
infer that the A/C was not even turned on. Your comment suggests that 
this was not so, and that the auditorium became warm for some other 
reason. Is that so?

Sincerely,
Paul Bain

> In point of fact, there's a legal maximum on occupancy, so I'd prefer
> not to raise the issue...
> 
> Ted
From truegsegger at csc.com  Thu May  4 19:44:42 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Thu May  4 19:44:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday - air conditioning?
In-Reply-To: <445A900F.8050201@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <OF5D0A7385.A8E25986-ON04257164.0081FFE4-04257164.008270BB@csc.com>

When I return to the office tomorrow, I'll find out everything they
can tell me about the air conditioning.

I guess not turning it on would cut down the cost; if so, perhaps
they'll make an exception since we expect a full house. On the other
hand, it may run off a calendar. But this is Virginia, so May
shouldn't be too early for AC. Hope they're not waiting for Memorial
Day...

Ted

From greg at pryzby.org  Thu May  4 20:51:32 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Thu May  4 21:05:48 2006
Subject: [novalug] USENIX '06 
Message-ID: <20060505005132.GO333@pryzby.org>

For those who may be interested....



======================================================
Register NOW for USENIX '06: the Annual Technical Conference of the
USENIX Association at gttp://www.usenix.org/usenix06/progm

USENIX is back in Boston this May 30 through June 3 with the latest
research, security breakthroughs, and practical approaches to the
questions and problems you wrestle with. You'll also have many
opportunities to chat with peers who share your concerns and interests.

*** Over 30 tutorials, featuring:
o  Dan Geer on Measuring Security
o  Alex Russell on Ajax and Advanced Responsive WebApp Development
o  AEleen Frisch on Administering Linux in Production Environments
o  Abe Singer on Building a Logging Infrastructure and Log Analysis
     for Security
o  Bill Cheswick on Defense Against the Dark Arts: Repelling
     the Wily Hacker
        (See details at gttp://www.usenix.org/events/usenix06/training/)

*** Three concurrent tracks of Technical Sessions including Invited
Talks, a Systems Practice and Experience track, and a Guru track with
your favorite academics and industry researchers on such timely topics
as:
o  Greg Brandeau of Pixar on "Why Mr. Incredible and Buzz Lightyear
     Need Better Tools" (Plenary)
o  Trevor Blackwell of Anybots on "Real Operating Systems for Real-time
     Motion Control"
o  Peiter "Mudge" Zatko of BBN on "Success, Failure, and Alternative
     Solutions for Network Security"
o  Matt Welsh of Harvard on "Deploying a Sensor Network on an Active Volcano"
        (See details at gttp://www.usenix.org/events/usenix06/tech/ )

*** Keynote by Larry Peterson of Princeton on "Planetlab: Evolution
vs. Intelligent Design in Planetary-Scale Infrastructure"

*** Works-In-Progress Reports (WIPs) round out a rich week overflowing
with presentations, information, and collaboration.

Also: don't miss the opportunity to pose your toughest questions to the
experts in the Guru Is In Sessions. Mingle with colleagues and leading
experts at the Birds-of-a-Feather sessions (BoFs) and at the various
evening social events, including a Poster Session & Happy Hour, vendor
sessions, and an off-site conference reception.

USENIX '06 promises to be an exciting showcase for the latest in
innovative research and cutting-edge practices in technology. We look
forward to seeing you in Boston in May.

--------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT:   USENIX '06
WHEN:   May 30 - June 3, 2006
WHERE:  Boston, MA: Marriott Hotel Copley Place
WHO:    Anyone interested in state-of-the-art computing issues
WHY:    To get to and stay on the leading edge of practical
            and actionable research and tools
HOW:    gttp://www.usenix.org/usenix06/progm
--------------------------------------------------------------

Five or more people registering together get $100 off per person!

Early-Bird Registration discounts end May 12 -- register NOW for the
best pricing at: gttp://www.usenix.org/usenix06/progm
======================================================


-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From rich.goodwin at cox.net  Thu May  4 19:34:05 2006
From: rich.goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin)
Date: Thu May  4 22:38:36 2006
Subject: [novalug] meeting saturday - air conditioning?
In-Reply-To: <OF4F81C5CA.A4005EA9-ON04257164.0071A4B8-04257164.00724B01@csc.com>
References: <OF4F81C5CA.A4005EA9-ON04257164.0071A4B8-04257164.00724B01@csc.com>
Message-ID: <1146785645.6869.2.camel@BigTux>

Maybe a better question is - can facilities turn the AC on from 9-12??

Rich

On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 16:48 -0400, Theodore Ruegsegger wrote:
> Paul wrote:
> 
> > If the auditorium becomes as full as it did the last time that Red
> > Hat spoke at one of our meetings (Oct or Nov. 2002, IIRC), then the
> > auditorium may become warm very quickly. Will Ted R. be able to
> > ensure that we have adequate air conditioning?
> 
> Ted R. can ensure no such thing, though he can make requests to the
> Facilities folks (who aren't around on weekends). Not sure what it is
> you want me to request, though. Either the AC unit can handle it, or
> it can't.
> 
> In point of fact, there's a legal maximum on occupancy, so I'd prefer
> not to raise the issue...
> 
> Ted
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
-- 

GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu

Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant.

              They run Windows don't they!!
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From jhart at kevla.org  Thu May  4 23:01:15 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Thu May  4 23:28:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] Need ride to meeting
Message-ID: <5953.192.168.1.16.1146798075.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

If anyone live near the Pentagon, and can give me a ride to the meeting, I could use one.

thanks,

Jay Hart

From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Fri May  5 10:09:31 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Fri May  5 10:36:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: general firewall question
Message-ID: <20060505140931.50719.qmail@web61016.mail.yahoo.com>

We have a firewall which, in addition to packet
inspection, does higher-level protocol-specific
filtering for HTTP, SMTP, et al.  The HTTP and SMTP
"proxies" are a little strict, and this gets us into
trouble, for example somebody behind a load balancer
not being able to view our website, or somebody
pasting HTML into Comcast's webmail interface not
being able to send mail to us.  The problem is that as
far as configuration with this firewall, it is all or
nothing: either you apply all of the HTTP "fishiness"
tests to all requests, or use none of them at all, and
the same holds with other protocols.

The documentation for the firewall doesn't go detail
about the rules applied by each proxy.  I will
certainly call the vendor for advice, but let's see if
I can gain a preliminary understanding from y'all
first.  I am not the firewall guy, and I don't want to
step on the firewall guy's toes....

So, do you...

-have with a firewall that doesn't offer enough fine
tuning?
-ever need to balance between connectivity with your
customers and compliance to RFCs?
-have anything related to share?

Here is a more detailed look at two scenarios that
cause us trouble.  The following are common log
entries:

-------------------------------
HTTP: "Reverse address does not match, so denied..."
-------------------------------
I suppose that check is in place to prevent some type
of spoof or relay attack.  I do see plenty of packets
from who-knows-where claiming that their real
destination is 127.0.0.1.  The problem is that this
rule prevents several people from viewing our site,
including some who really need to.  In one case the
reason was apparently that the person was behind some
sort of load balancer that presents one IP but asks
that packets get returned to another.  In another
case, the person has a regular old DSL account and is
viewing from behind a regular old linksys router.  

-------------------------------
SMTP: "Overly long line received"
-------------------------------
We see this with some people who use Comcast's webmail
interface--especially if they paste in MS-generated
HTML.  We also see it with some people sending from an
Outlook/Exchange environmnent.  Their mail violates an
RFC that mandates a limit on the length of a single
line.  The problem is that enough mail from
"important" poeple (e.g. Dell Gold Tech Support)
doesn't make it through for this purpose.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Fri May  5 10:47:53 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Fri May  5 11:14:43 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: general firewall question
In-Reply-To: <20060505140931.50719.qmail@web61016.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060505140931.50719.qmail@web61016.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200605051047.53938.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Fri May 5 2006 10:09 am, ben creitz wrote:

> The documentation for the firewall doesn't go detail
> about the rules applied by each proxy.  I will
> certainly call the vendor for advice, but let's see if
> I can gain a preliminary understanding from y'all
> first.  I am not the firewall guy, and I don't want to
> step on the firewall guy's toes....

I'm having some rules problems too. Spam filters appear to be causing 
more and more problems. For instance, my tag below is causing my e-mail 
to be caught as spam at one place and to be delayed by up to twelve 
hours at another. The same e-mail sent without the tag goes right 
through. It doesn't appear to matter whether I send it from Speakeasy or 
gmail.

There are other people who have not been able to send to me. I've gotten 
around this by instructing them to send to my gmail account where I can 
retrieve the messages with a browser.

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From truegsegger at csc.com  Fri May  5 11:45:40 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Fri May  5 11:45:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] NOVALUG Saturday: air conditioning will be on
Message-ID: <OF05C8F6A5.6B81A817-ON04257165.00566553-04257165.00569578@csc.com>

Facilities assures me that the air conditioning will be on.

It took them a while to get back to me with that answer, so
it was clearly a good question to ask.

Ted

From lgj at usenix.org  Fri May  5 13:01:44 2006
From: lgj at usenix.org (Lionel Garth Jones)
Date: Fri May  5 13:36:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] USENIX LISA '06 Call For Papers Deadline Approaching
Message-ID: <445B84F8.4040601@usenix.org>

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Call for Papers
LISA '06: 20th Large Installation System Administration Conference
December 3-8, 2006, Washington, D.C., USA
http://www.usenix.org/lisa06/cfpb
Extended Abstract and Paper Submissions Deadline: May 23, 2006
Sponsored by USENIX and SAGE
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Colleague

The submission deadline for the 20th Large Installation System
Administration Conference (LISA ?06) is approaching. Please submit your
work by May 23, 2006.

The LISA '06 organizers invite you to contribute proposals for refereed
papers, invited talks, and workshops, plus any ideas you have for Guru
Is In sessions, Work-in-Progress reports, and training sessions.

The Call for Participation with submission guidelines and sample
topics can be found on the USENIX Web site at
http://www.usenix.org/lisa06/cfpb

The annual LISA conference is the meeting place of choice for system,
network, security, and other computing administrators.
Administrators of all specialties and levels of expertise meet at
LISA to exchange ideas, sharpen skills, learn new techniques,
debate current issues, and meet colleagues and friends.

People representing every work assignment from the full-time position
at a large site to the part-time one at a small shop come to LISA
from over 30 countries, bringing a variety of backgrounds and experience
levels to the conference dedicated to them. System and network
administrators from environments as diverse as academia, large
corporations, small businesses, government organizations, and
research sites find LISA to be the place to go for training,
education, networking, and interacting with their peers.

The conference's diverse group of participants is matched by an
equally broad spectrum of activities:

* Training sessions for both beginners and experienced attendees
  cover many administrative topics ranging from basic administrative
  procedures to using cutting-edge technologies.

* Refereed papers present the latest developments and ideas related
  to system and network administration.

* Invited talks and panels discuss important and timely topics and
  often spark lively debates and conversation.

* Work-in-progress reports (WiPs) provide brief peeks at next year's
  innovations.

GET INVOLVED!
* Submit a draft paper or extended abstract proposal for a refereed paper.
* Suggest an invited talk speaker.
* Share your experience by leading a Guru Is In session.
* Propose a training session topic.
* Organize or suggest a Birds-of-a-Feather (BoF) session.
* Email an idea to the chair: lisa06ideas@usenix.org

------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT DATES
Extended Abstract and Paper Submissions Deadline: May 23, 2006
Invited Talks proposals due: June 1, 2006
Notification to authors: July 12 2006
Final papers due: September 12, 2006
Submission guidelines and more information can be found at
http://www.usenix.org/lisa06/cfpb
Sponsored by USENIX and SAGE
-------------------------------------------------------------

We look forward to hearing from you!

On behalf of the LISA '06 Program Committee,

William LeFebvre
lisa06chair@usenix.org


From goldsmithj at yahoo.com  Fri May  5 15:12:21 2006
From: goldsmithj at yahoo.com (jlg)
Date: Fri May  5 15:39:10 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
Message-ID: <20060505191221.43794.qmail@web50706.mail.yahoo.com>

Greetings:
   
  Please excuse to the off topic post. 
   
  I have a need to load about 4000 records into a web app.  The app is a standard html form (using POST data?).  We have offered to supply the data in any sort of flat file (CSV, fixed format, xml, etc) but the received agency will have nothing of that.  We must use the web app.  We are considering hiring a temp for a week or two (or more ;-) ) to manually load this.
   
  The question:  do you know of a tool (open source or free due to the shortness of time) that will iterate over a data file and load it into this app.  I'm pretty sure I could use Mercury's QTP (Quick Test Pro), but, I no longer have access to this tool set.  I'm an advanced journeyman perl programmer so a script would work too.  I could write my own but I don't have time for a big learning curve (which I anticipate).
   
  Suggestions?
   
  Thanks for your help.
   
  ...jlg (jim)
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From truegsegger at csc.com  Fri May  5 17:01:41 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Fri May  5 17:01:57 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
In-Reply-To: <20060505191221.43794.qmail@web50706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFACB84597.D96C9BEF-ON04257165.0073729E-04257165.007383CF@csc.com>

The only way I know to feed data automatically into web pages is Selenium 
IDE.

Ted

From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Fri May  5 16:44:31 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Fri May  5 17:11:18 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
In-Reply-To: <20060505191221.43794.qmail@web50706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060505204431.78185.qmail@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>

Jim, if you know even a *little* Perl, then grab a
copy of O'Reilly's "Spidering Hacks."  You will be
able to create a Perl script that does what you want
in an afternoon, using a module which I think is
called "Mechanize."  I was able to do useful things
immediately, and I really don't know much Perl at all.

Show your employer how much money you can save them 
by being clever.  Good luck!

-Ben

--- jlg <goldsmithj@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Greetings:
>    
>   Please excuse to the off topic post. 
>    
>   I have a need to load about 4000 records into a
> web app.  The app is a standard html form (using
> POST data?).  We have offered to supply the data in
> any sort of flat file (CSV, fixed format, xml, etc)
> but the received agency will have nothing of that. 
> We must use the web app.  We are considering hiring
> a temp for a week or two (or more ;-) ) to manually
> load this.
>    
>   The question:  do you know of a tool (open source
> or free due to the shortness of time) that will
> iterate over a data file and load it into this app. 
> I'm pretty sure I could use Mercury's QTP (Quick
> Test Pro), but, I no longer have access to this tool
> set.  I'm an advanced journeyman perl programmer so
> a script would work too.  I could write my own but I
> don't have time for a big learning curve (which I
> anticipate).
>    
>   Suggestions?
>    
>   Thanks for your help.
>    
>   ...jlg (jim)
> > _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From 1a2ksu at comcast.net  Fri May  5 17:24:35 2006
From: 1a2ksu at comcast.net (1a2ksu@comcast.net)
Date: Fri May  5 17:46:08 2006
Subject: [novalug] Making fonts look better in XFree86
Message-ID: <050520062124.29622.445BC2930005D153000073B622007481849A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>

As I recall there is a way to use TrueType fonts with XF86, which should result in the fonts looking better, since the ones that come with Debian really don't look very good.

A few months ago I tried to get this to work and I had no luck with it. I really couldn't find any good instructions on how to enable them with a Google search.

Does anyone have a link to some instructions or suggested config files? I have a Windows machine from which I can get TrueType fonts.

Are there any alternatives to using TrueType fonts which will provide similar results? Is there a debian package with what I need somewhere?

-Brian Leeper
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From RossPatterson at comcast.net  Fri May  5 17:31:34 2006
From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson)
Date: Fri May  5 17:55:26 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
In-Reply-To: <20060505191221.43794.qmail@web50706.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060505191221.43794.qmail@web50706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505172822.042b1c60@Comcast.Net>

At 15:12 05/05/06, jlg wrote:
>I have a need to load about 4000 records into a web app.  The app is 
>a standard html form (using POST data?).  ...
>
>The question:  do you know of a tool (open source or free due to the 
>shortness of time) that will iterate over a data file and load it 
>into this app.

Sounds like a job for "wget".  You should be able to compose an HTTP 
"POST" command that matches the contents of the HTML form and use 
wget to send it and retrieve the web app's response.  Wrap a small 
shell script around that to run wget for each record and you're 
golden.  For extra credit, diff the app's response against a known 
-good response and you can report failure or success on a 
record-by-record basis.

Ross

From merky_1 at yahoo.com  Fri May  5 19:35:12 2006
From: merky_1 at yahoo.com (Tom and Wendy)
Date: Fri May  5 20:02:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] Making fonts look better in XFree86
In-Reply-To: <050520062124.29622.445BC2930005D153000073B622007481849A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
References: <050520062124.29622.445BC2930005D153000073B622007481849A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1146872112.4038.1.camel@amiga-gentoo.merky1.net>

On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 21:24 +0000, 1a2ksu@comcast.net wrote:
> As I recall there is a way to use TrueType fonts with XF86, which
> should result in the fonts looking better, since the ones that come
> with Debian really don't look very good.
>  
> A few months ago I tried to get this to work and I had no luck with
> it. I really couldn't find any good instructions on how to enable them
> with a Google search.
>  
> Does anyone have a link to some instructions or suggested config
> files? I have a Windows machine from which I can get TrueType fonts.
>  
> Are there any alternatives to using TrueType fonts which will provide
> similar results? Is there a debian package with what I need somewhere?
>  
> -Brian Leeper

The guide I use for my systems is
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Xorg_and_Fonts although it is gentoo
specific when discussing the packages, it may be helpful as far as
configuring X.

Hope this helps.


From nick at mrtizmo.com  Fri May  5 20:35:34 2006
From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis)
Date: Fri May  5 20:35:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Making fonts look better in XFree86
In-Reply-To: <1146872112.4038.1.camel@amiga-gentoo.merky1.net>
References: <050520062124.29622.445BC2930005D153000073B622007481849A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
	<1146872112.4038.1.camel@amiga-gentoo.merky1.net>
Message-ID: <33920.69.243.115.214.1146875734.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>

Here is what you are looking for:

http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/FDU.html

Bascially, you copy the default Microsoft fonts onto your linux system and set your
Xserver to use them.. they are very pretty compared to the usual linux fonts.

Mandriva and possibly other RPM based systems use an RPM called:

msttcorefonts.x.x.x.rpm

which does everything the above howto does, but it's packaged into an RPM. You just
install the rpm and add them as usable fonts, then configure gnome/kde to use the
fonts.

You should also be sure to install the 100dpi fonts too.

Here are the fonts included in the msttcorefonts rpm:
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/andalemo.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/arial.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/arialbd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/arialbi.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/ariali.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/ariblk.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/comic.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/comicbd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/cour.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/courbd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/courbi.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/couri.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/fonts.dir
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/georgia.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/georgiab.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/georgiai.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/georgiaz.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/impact.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/tahoma.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/tahomabd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/times.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/timesbd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/timesbi.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/timesi.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/trebuc.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/trebucbd.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/trebucbi.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/trebucit.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/verdana.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/verdanab.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/verdanai.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/verdanaz.ttf
/usr/share/fonts/msttcorefonts/webdings.ttf


P.S. this works on both XFree86 and xorg.

HTH's
Nick Davis



On Fri, May 5, 2006 18:35, Tom and Wendy said:
> On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 21:24 +0000, 1a2ksu@comcast.net wrote:
>> As I recall there is a way to use TrueType fonts with XF86, which
>> should result in the fonts looking better, since the ones that come
>> with Debian really don't look very good.
>>
>> A few months ago I tried to get this to work and I had no luck with
>> it. I really couldn't find any good instructions on how to enable them
>> with a Google search.
>>
>> Does anyone have a link to some instructions or suggested config
>> files? I have a Windows machine from which I can get TrueType fonts.
>>
>> Are there any alternatives to using TrueType fonts which will provide
>> similar results? Is there a debian package with what I need somewhere?
>>
>> -Brian Leeper
>
> The guide I use for my systems is
> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Xorg_and_Fonts although it is gentoo
> specific when discussing the packages, it may be helpful as far as
> configuring X.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Fri May  5 22:16:42 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Fri May  5 23:16:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] Making fonts look better in XFree86
In-Reply-To: <33920.69.243.115.214.1146875734.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>
References: <050520062124.29622.445BC2930005D153000073B622007481849A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
	<1146872112.4038.1.camel@amiga-gentoo.merky1.net>
	<33920.69.243.115.214.1146875734.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>
Message-ID: <1146881802.17228.92.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 19:35 -0500, Nick Davis wrote:
> Here is what you are looking for:
> 
> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/FDU.html
> 
> Bascially, you copy the default Microsoft fonts onto your linux system and set your
> Xserver to use them.. they are very pretty compared to the usual linux fonts.
> 
> Mandriva and possibly other RPM based systems use an RPM called:
> 
> msttcorefonts.x.x.x.rpm
> 
> which does everything the above howto does, but it's packaged into an RPM. You just
> install the rpm and add them as usable fonts, then configure gnome/kde to use the
> fonts.

If you want to go this route with Ubuntu it to has the package:
msttcorefonts

It description is:
 Installer for Microsoft TrueType core fonts
 This package allows for easy installation of the Microsoft True Type
 Core Fonts for the Web including:

  Andale Mono
  Arial Black
  Arial (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Comic Sans MS (Bold)
  Courier New (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Georgia (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Impact
  Times New Roman (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Trebuchet (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Verdana (Bold, Italic, Bold Italic)
  Webdings

  You will need an Internet connection to download these fonts if you
  don't already have them.

Note the package may only show up as listed after you add "Multiverse"
and/or "Universe" to your Repositories (ie source.list file).

Also you might want to look at:
 "Breezy Customisation Guide"
 <http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/BreezyCust>
and at:
 "Freedesktop.org software"
 <http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software>
as there is a lot of useful customization information there.

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
For courage mounteth with occasion. 
 -- William Shakespeare, "King John"
From greg at pryzby.org  Fri May  5 23:26:47 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Fri May  5 23:30:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Invaded Best Buy Store.... Good Laugh!
Message-ID: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>

http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57
-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From jbholland at gmail.com  Sat May  6 08:24:12 2006
From: jbholland at gmail.com (John Holland)
Date: Sat May  6 10:14:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Invaded Best Buy Store.... Good Laugh!
In-Reply-To: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
References: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <be4f57690605060524l15c56dafucd0af6413c5f4f4@mail.gmail.com>

I used to work at a government site with EDS and Digital contractors. The
EDS guys had a uniform of navy blue shirts like these best buy ones and
khakis. Every so often the Digital guys all came in in the same outfit
(except the EDS guys' shirts had the EDS logo on the back). Same thing I
guess.

On 5/5/06, gregory pryzby <greg@pryzby.org> wrote:
>
> http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57
> --
> greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
> fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFEXBd3wVZrBISfqG8RAogMAJsErd8jw+Ha7POBxfCJD4QB658yLwCfYdlG
> CfAK1/xi/lCanRg3TRqkjwM=
> =/qE3
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>
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From kevin at pheared.net  Sat May  6 10:56:40 2006
From: kevin at pheared.net (Kevin Dwyer)
Date: Sat May  6 10:56:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Invaded Best Buy Store.... Good Laugh!
In-Reply-To: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
References: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <20060506145639.GK1050@bowser.pheared.net>

Unfortunately the site uses Flash 8 to distribute the video content
which excludes any Linux users from watching.

-kpd

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 11:26:47PM -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57

From dac at cafaro.net  Sat May  6 11:16:59 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Sat May  6 11:44:09 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Invaded Best Buy Store.... Good Laugh!
In-Reply-To: <20060506145639.GK1050@bowser.pheared.net>
References: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
	<20060506145639.GK1050@bowser.pheared.net>
Message-ID: <1146928620.2304.4.camel@kara>

Linux users can watch the videos, here's how.

If you click on the videos you will go to the website that hosts the
videos.  Once there you will see a link under the video called
"Download".  Clicking on this link gives you the option of downloading
the original video format which in this case is quicktime.  It is
possible to install quicktime video support so that is your route to
watching the videos on linux.  

That is how I watched them, and it works pretty well.  Some of the
videos are a good watch.  This was on an FC4 system using
mplayer-plugin.  It's unfortunate that macromedia/adobe takes so long to
get the Linux versions of their player out.

Cheers,
David

On Sat, 2006-05-06 at 10:56 -0400, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
> Unfortunately the site uses Flash 8 to distribute the video content
> which excludes any Linux users from watching.
> 
> -kpd
> 
> On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 11:26:47PM -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> > http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57


From linux_author at verizon.net  Sat May  6 12:01:27 2006
From: linux_author at verizon.net (billy b.)
Date: Sat May  6 13:01:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Invaded Best Buy Store.... Good Laugh!
In-Reply-To: <be4f57690605060524l15c56dafucd0af6413c5f4f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060506032647.GA8177@pryzby.org>
	<be4f57690605060524l15c56dafucd0af6413c5f4f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68988674257975d20c976a9050e18ee2@verizon.net>

- all those folks in blue shirts and khakis make the scene look like 
something right out of downtown Clearwater, Fla., which has been 
infected by Scientology cult members instead of improv participants 
(downright creepy, IMO)...

- tks for the link, although i haven't been inside a Best Buy in nearly 
two years (last time was at the one at Columbia Pike and Rt. 7)...

bb

On May 6, 2006, at 8:24 AM, John Holland wrote:

> I used to work at a government site with EDS and Digital contractors. 
> The EDS guys had a uniform of navy blue shirts like these best buy 
> ones and khakis. Every so often the Digital guys all came in in the 
> same outfit (except the EDS guys' shirts had the EDS logo on the 
> back). Same thing I guess.
>
> On 5/5/06, gregory pryzby <greg@pryzby.org> 
> wrote:http://www.improveverywhere.com/mission_view.php?mission_id=57
>> --
>> greg pryzby??????????????????????????????greg at pryzby dot org
>> fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
>>
>> iD8DBQFEXBd3wVZrBISfqG8RAogMAJsErd8jw+Ha7POBxfCJD4QB658yLwCfYdlG
>> CfAK1/xi/lCanRg3TRqkjwM=
>> =/qE3
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sat May  6 13:06:51 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sat May  6 13:07:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>


 	I'm trying to get by with KDE on a couple of machines 
where I still can't log in to Gnome; there are things I want to 
do on them that I just don't want to tackle under ssh/scp -- like 
peruse my favorite collection of weather maps, for instance.

 	Of all the things I dislike about KDE, one that bothers 
me at least as much as any is that I can't find anything that 
works like the panel drawers in Gnome -- of which I use three or 
four constantly. Is there one?

 	Also, just once (unless I dreamt it) I hit upon a way to 
add gnome apps to a KDE panel. For the life of me, I can't find 
that option again! I routinely keep a couple KDE things -- mainly 
Konqueror -- on my gnome desktop; and they're easy to put there. 
Why shouldn't I have a gnome app or two -- starting with the 
drawers -- on a KDE desktop, so long as I'm forced to use one?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From ejb at ql.org  Sat May  6 12:06:31 2006
From: ejb at ql.org (Jay Berkenbilt)
Date: Sat May  6 14:46:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Windows XP support for a friend of a friend
Message-ID: <20060506120631.0507464781.qww314159@soup.q.ql.org>


I'm sorry for this off-topic post, but I thought there was a decent
chance someone on this list may be able to help or may know someone
who is able to help.  I know a person who is interested in some
computer help for his IT business.  He is a chemical engineer (or
something like that -- I can't recall the exact details) who feels
that he's not making good enough use of his computer.  He's got an
older system which he believes is a 1 GHz Pentium 3 with 128 MB RAM
and a 40 GB hard drive with 9.5 GB free.  It is running Windows 98.
He has purchased Windows XP professional and wanted help getting it
installed and getting his software to work with it.  I spoke to him
and basically advised him that his current system would not be able to
realistically run Windows XP with his current suite of applications
and that it would probably be more economical for him to just purchase
a whole new system and migrate the data, perhaps by putting his old
hard drive into a USB enclosure.

It turns out what he's looking for is probably some one time help
getting a new system put together and establishing some kind of
reasonable backup system, and then some ongoing help of someone who
can come in once or twice a month.  This is for his business, so he's
willing to pay, though I didn't discuss fees with him.  His business
is located in Arlington.

If anyone is interested in helping him out, please let me know, and
I'll pass his information to you off list.

-- 
Jay Berkenbilt <ejb@ql.org>
From novalug at slipt.net  Sat May  6 17:50:13 2006
From: novalug at slipt.net (dave crane)
Date: Sat May  6 18:03:18 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>

Why not do like me; run the gnome-panel in kde.  Works just fine here.  I 
actually run both kde and gnome panels for various reasons.

Yes, you have to have them both installed, but gnome's overall shortcomings as 
a DE got to be too much for me.

dave

On Saturday 06 May 2006 1:06 pm, Beartooth wrote:
> 
>  	I'm trying to get by with KDE on a couple of machines 
> where I still can't log in to Gnome; there are things I want to 
> do on them that I just don't want to tackle under ssh/scp -- like 
> peruse my favorite collection of weather maps, for instance.
> 
>  	Of all the things I dislike about KDE, one that bothers 
> me at least as much as any is that I can't find anything that 
> works like the panel drawers in Gnome -- of which I use three or 
> four constantly. Is there one?
> 
>  	Also, just once (unless I dreamt it) I hit upon a way to 
> add gnome apps to a KDE panel. For the life of me, I can't find 
> that option again! I routinely keep a couple KDE things -- mainly 
> Konqueror -- on my gnome desktop; and they're easy to put there. 
> Why shouldn't I have a gnome app or two -- starting with the 
> drawers -- on a KDE desktop, so long as I'm forced to use one?
> 
> -- 
> Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
> Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From mstone at mathom.us  Sat May  6 18:55:32 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Sat May  6 19:55:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
Message-ID: <20060506225530.GL16533@mathom.us>

On Sat, May 06, 2006 at 05:50:13PM -0400, dave crane wrote:
>Yes, you have to have them both installed

Hmm. I've got neither one here...

Mike Stone
From linux at chesbayva.com  Sun May  7 08:12:50 2006
From: linux at chesbayva.com (linux@chesbayva.com)
Date: Sun May  7 08:28:23 2006
Subject: [novalug] SUSE 10.0 kpackage
Message-ID: <1147003970.445de442aefcc@mail.opentransfer.com>

I have used LINUX for a long time, but am fairly new to SUSE. I have SUSE 10.0
running and it looks great. One problem though. When I try to use kpackage to
remove some packages, nothing happens. I can mark the package and it is
highlighted. I click the "uninstall" button and a dialog box comes up showing
the package I have selected to uninstall. I click uninstall and the dialog box
goes away, but nothing else happens. I am doing this as root.

Any ideas?

Tom




From greg at pryzby.org  Sun May  7 08:40:43 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Sun May  7 08:56:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] SUSE 10.0 kpackage
In-Reply-To: <1147003970.445de442aefcc@mail.opentransfer.com>
References: <1147003970.445de442aefcc@mail.opentransfer.com>
Message-ID: <20060507124042.GH8177@pryzby.org>

On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 07:12:50AM -0500, linux@chesbayva.com wrote:
> I have used LINUX for a long time, but am fairly new to SUSE. I have SUSE 10.0
> running and it looks great. One problem though. When I try to use kpackage to
> remove some packages, nothing happens. I can mark the package and it is
> highlighted. I click the "uninstall" button and a dialog box comes up showing
> the package I have selected to uninstall. I click uninstall and the dialog box
> goes away, but nothing else happens. I am doing this as root.

Use 
/sbin/yast2
Software-> Software Management

or rpm -e packagename (from cli)

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sun May  7 10:34:03 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 10:34:13 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070731540.23920@titan.lserv.com>

On Sat, 6 May 2006, dave crane wrote:

> Why not do like me; run the gnome-panel in kde.  Works just 
> fine here.  I actually run both kde and gnome panels for 
> various reasons.
>
> Yes, you have to have them both installed, but gnome's overall 
> shortcomings as a DE got to be too much for me.

 	I'll try it. How do you do it? The only reason I even 
have KDE on any uncrippled machine is to run Konqueror, chiefly 
to handle man pages; but as long as I'm stuck with KDE, I might 
as well try -- and a proper Gnome panel would mitigate things 
enormously.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sun May  7 10:43:18 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 10:43:23 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <20060506225530.GL16533@mathom.us>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
	<20060506225530.GL16533@mathom.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070734160.23920@titan.lserv.com>

On Sat, 6 May 2006, Michael Stone wrote:

> Hmm. I've got neither [Gnome nor KDE] here...

 	I prefer the command line for anything my fingers know; 
but they have to pick things up in use. I've always been good at 
natural human languages; but for some reason, I can neither sit 
down and learn commands, nor remember where to look for them, 
*except* with the aid of visual memory.

 	I taught myself Finnish, after the age of forty, in a 
year or two; but I've been working on linux for seven, most of 
that full-time, and still know only a few.

 	Also, arthritic eyeballs and trifocal fingers -- to say 
nothing of a 40% disabled left hand -- can handle a mouse a lot 
quicker and easier than anything that has to be 
character-perfect.

 	As far as that goes, I even do commands like "su - root," 
"cd /home/btth," and "pine" with the up arrow all I can -- to say 
nothing of long ones, like ssh-ing into my remote account. (I 
just had to retype "remote" three times, and "retype" twice ...)

 	Enjoy your fingers while they work!

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sun May  7 12:00:02 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 12:00:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] new FC5.ppc louses up caplock
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070858020.23920@titan.lserv.com>

 	I've just done a fresh install of FC5.ppc on a G3 iBook.

 	The caplock key is lit by default -- and the machine 
actually types normally, and in caps some of the time -- 
accroding to what random choice I don't see. Aaarrgghhhh ...

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From jholmblad at aol.com  Sun May  7 11:25:33 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sun May  7 12:25:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
Message-ID: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>

All,

this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug meeting, 
assuming there is someone interested in and knowledgable about about 
this opensource wireless router project:

       http://openwrt.org/
-- 

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

(O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)

 

primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com

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From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sun May  7 13:33:39 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 13:33:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: tried "gnome-panel &" in KDE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071306110.17253@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071306110.17253@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071030540.23920@titan.lserv.com>

On Sun, 7 May 2006, I Beartooth wrote:

> 	Here's what I got, along with my regular Gnome botom 
> panel, to which it let me add things, though with triple OAFIID 
> popups :
>
> [1] 17159
> [btth@localhost ~]$
> ** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to load 
> applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
> Failed to resolve, or extend 
> '!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false
[...]
> 	Needless perhaps to say, every time I clicked Add for 
> some applet, I got three different popups with OAFIID warnings 
> -- not necessarily related to the applet I was trying to add.
>
> 	Less obviously, perhaps, is this: when I tried 
> right-clicking the left edge and Add Panel, it added the panel 
> I had had there under Gnome.
>
> 	It also let me add, remove, and open icons -- with triple 
> OAFIID error popupups -- but not all of them launch, or take 
> input if they do. The Deskto Background Switcher, for instance, 
> does not.

 	Immediately after sending that, I tried adding more 
things to the left panel. Now I started getting four, then five 
popups -- and things didn't get added. Also I can't move some of 
the icons that are there into drawers.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From beartooth at adelphia.net  Sun May  7 13:28:08 2006
From: beartooth at adelphia.net (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 13:47:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] tried "gnome-panel &" in KDE
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071306110.17253@localhost.localdomain>


 	Here's what I got, along with my regular Gnome botom panel, to 
which it let me add things, though with triple OAFIID popups :

[1] 17159
[btth@localhost ~]$
** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false
** Message: could not connect to power manager - Could not get owner of 
name 'org.gnome.PowerManager': no such name
** Message: could not connect to power manager - Could not get owner of 
name 'org.gnome.PowerManager': no such name

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_DictionaryApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_DictionaryApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_DictionaryApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false
** Message: could not connect to power manager - Could not get owner of 
name 'org.gnome.PowerManager': no such name

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_DictionaryApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_WindowListApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/window_list/prefs;background=pixmap:31457502,-1,-1;orient=up;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_DictionaryApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

** (gnome-panel:17159): WARNING **: panel-applet-frame.c:1261: failed to 
load applet OAFIID:GNOME_GeyesApplet:
Failed to resolve, or extend 
'!prefs_key=/apps/panel/applets/applet_1/prefs;background=pixmap:31457408,-1,-1;orient=right;size=medium;locked_down=false

 	Needless perhaps to say, every time I clicked Add for some applet, 
I got three different popups with OAFIID warnings -- not necessarily 
related to the applet I was trying to add.

 	Less obviously, perhaps, is this: when I tried right-clicking the 
left edge and Add Panel, it added the panel I had had there under Gnome.

 	It also let me add, remove, and open icons -- with triple OAFIID 
error popupups -- but not all of them launch, or take input if they do. 
The Deskto Background Switcher, for instance, does not.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Linux Enthusiast
A wanderstaff like an Elvish rope should be long,
and strong, and light. And gentle to the hand.
From gnievin at adelphia.net  Sun May  7 14:54:10 2006
From: gnievin at adelphia.net (Garrett Nievin)
Date: Sun May  7 15:10:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071444550.17425@woody.localdomain>

I'm not knowledgeable, but I'm using DD-WRT (http://www.dd-wrt.com/), an 
OpenWRT-based firmware, as a wireless client bridge (and 5-port switch). 
Works very nicely.  And the hardware is cheaper and better supported in 
Linux (particularly Fedora) than a single PCI Wifi-G card.

Cheers,
Garrett


On Sun, 7 May 2006, John B. Holmblad wrote:

> All,
>
> this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug meeting, assuming 
> there is someone interested in and knowledgable about about this opensource 
> wireless router project:
>
>      http://openwrt.org/
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sun May  7 15:36:05 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May  7 15:36:10 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>

On Sun, 7 May 2006, John B. Holmblad wrote:

> this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug 
> meeting, assuming there is someone interested in and 
> knowledgable about about this opensource wireless router 
> project:
>
>      http://openwrt.org/

 	VDQ : IF I understand aright, and IF there's a linux 
version, the idea is to download that and put it somehow into 
your router *instead* of whatever code Linksys, D-Link, or 
whoever ships it with. Izzatso? If it is, will it also work on a 
wired-only router?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler, Neo-
Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From gnievin at adelphia.net  Sun May  7 16:41:46 2006
From: gnievin at adelphia.net (Garrett Nievin)
Date: Sun May  7 16:41:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071634320.17425@woody.localdomain>

The Linksys WRT-54G (and a number of other Broadcom-based devices, I 
gather) are running Linux out of the box.  Folks figured this out and 
forced Linksys to release the source code under the GPL.  There are 
enhanced versions of that firmware running around, like Sveasoft's. 
OpenWRT is a replacement Linux distribution for these routers.  This lets 
you do all sorts of cool things with these boxes.  See their home page 
and the Wikipedia pages on WRT54G and OpenWRT for more info.  For an 
interesting read, look at the entry for Sveasoft.  Another pile of 
information is at http://www.linksysinfo.org.

Cheers,
Garrett

On Sun, 7 May 2006, Beartooth wrote:

> On Sun, 7 May 2006, John B. Holmblad wrote:
>
>> this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug meeting, assuming 
>> there is someone interested in and knowledgable about about this opensource 
>> wireless router project:
>>
>>      http://openwrt.org/
>
> 	VDQ : IF I understand aright, and IF there's a linux version, the 
> idea is to download that and put it somehow into your router *instead* of 
> whatever code Linksys, D-Link, or whoever ships it with. Izzatso? If it is, 
> will it also work on a wired-only router?
>
>
From bidwell at dead-city.org  Sun May  7 18:07:02 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (bidwell@dead-city.org)
Date: Sun May  7 19:07:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
Message-ID: <web-2041598@mail.alticon.net>

On Sun, 07 May 2006 11:25:33 -0400
  "John B. Holmblad" <jholmblad@aol.com> wrote:

  All,

  this might make an interesting topic for a future

novalug meeting, assuming there is someone interested in

and knowledgable about about this opensource wireless

router project:

        http://openwrt.org/

  --

  Best Regards,

  John Holmblad

I'm running both an openwrt machine and
a unslung machine.  Really neat things.
I'm fascinated by being able to replace
entire machines with these low power
appliances.  I think as we've gotten
to a point where faster and faster
machines are not as big a factor
as they once were, smaller and less
energy and heat producing machines
will become more important.
Both these pieces of hardware (the
wrt54g and the nslu2) are fairly cheap
too.  And you can have a server running
raid-1 on the nslu2.
Matt
From amk at amk.ca  Sun May  7 20:04:26 2006
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sun May  7 19:30:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] ANNOUNCE: Python sprint in Arlington VA on June 3rd
Message-ID: <20060508000426.GA8144@rogue.amk.ca>

A Python sprint will be held on Saturday June 3, from 10 AM to 5 PM at
the Arlington Career Center in Arlington VA.

The wiki page at <http://wiki.python.org/moin/ArlingtonSprint> has
information and directions; please add your name if you'll be coming.
The wiki page can also be used to brainstorm about tasks to work on.

While this started out as a Python core sprint, there's no problem if
people want to come and work on something else that's vaguely
Python-related.

Thanks to Jeff Elkner of the Arlington County Schools who found space
for holding a Python sprint.

--amk
From jholmblad at aol.com  Sun May  7 20:16:34 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sun May  7 21:16:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <445E8DE2.4040802@aol.com>

Beartooth,

my perception (and it is just that since I have not used/tested openwrt) 
is that among other things the openwrt platform "exposes" a lot more 
functionality inherent in the IEEE 802.11 wireless protcols, including 
the ones pertaining to secure wireless transmission, IEEE 8-2.11i, than 
those available in the standard (e.g. Linksys) wireless router firmware 
build.

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

(O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)

 

primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com



Beartooth wrote:
> On Sun, 7 May 2006, John B. Holmblad wrote:
>
>> this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug meeting, 
>> assuming there is someone interested in and knowledgable about about 
>> this opensource wireless router project:
>>
>>      http://openwrt.org/
>
>    VDQ : IF I understand aright, and IF there's a linux version, the 
> idea is to download that and put it somehow into your router *instead* 
> of whatever code Linksys, D-Link, or whoever ships it with. Izzatso? 
> If it is, will it also work on a wired-only router?
>
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From drmikehenry at drmikehenry.com  Sun May  7 23:58:53 2006
From: drmikehenry at drmikehenry.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Mon May  8 01:58:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070734160.23920@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
	<20060506225530.GL16533@mathom.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070734160.23920@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <529109D6-E35F-4F4F-B770-4C86C9974B1A@drmikehenry.com>


On May 7, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Beartooth wrote:

> As far as that goes, I even do commands like "su - root," "cd /home/ 
> btth," and "pine" with the up arrow all I can -- to say nothing of  
> long ones, like ssh-ing into my remote account. (I just had to  
> retype "remote" three times, and "retype" twice ...)

Your comment reminded me of one of my favorite Bash features: reverse  
incremental search through the command history (search for "reverse- 
search-history" in the Bash manpage for more details).

By default, reverse-search-history is bound to the keystroke ctrl-r.   
It searches backward through your command history (most recently  
entered command first), incrementally matching the characters you  
type interactively.  Often, it takes only a couple of keystrokes to  
recall a given command in your history.  Using your examples above,  
you might press the following keys:

ctrl-r, s, u

to match the command "su - root".  Once you've located the match, you  
can just press Enter to execute the command, or you can use the  
cursor keys to change the command in some way before execution.  To  
search further back in history using the same keys already entered,  
just press ctrl-r again during the search.  For example, if your  
history had the following:

     cd /home/btth
     ls
     cd /etc
     ls

and you wanted to recall the "cd /home/btth" command, you could type:

ctrl-r, c, d

which would match the "cd /etc" command, then press ctrl-r again and  
it would match "cd /home/btth".

Another time-saving way to reference Bash history is via history  
expansion (search on "HISTORY EXPANSION" in the Bash manpage for more  
details).  There are many neat features about history expansion.   
Before I learned of reverse-search-history, I used the history  
feature "!prefix", which would find the most recently executed  
command beginning with "prefix".  So if you'd executed the following  
commands:

     cd /home/btth
     ls
     ls -lart

and then you want to repeat the "cd" command, you can just type this:

     !cd

or even this:

     !c

Bash does the history search and replaces the above shortcut with the  
complete command line "cd /home/btth" because that's the most recent  
command starting with "cd" (or with "c" for the second example).  You  
can also refer to the most recent command via the shortcut "!!".   
Compared to up-arrow, Enter, this is not really a savings for you  
most times, especially with the shifted punctuation, but there is one  
place I use this frequently.  When I forget to use "sudo" for editing  
a file, my last command might look like this:

     vim /etc/hosts

To repeat that command with a prefix of "sudo ", I just type:

     sudo !!

and Bash replaces the "!!" with "vim /etc/hosts", yielding:

     sudo vim /etc/hosts

Often I find the ctrl-r trick to be better for several reasons.   
First, you can search the entire command line, not just the first  
word on the line, and I've found that often the most distinct part of  
the command line falls beyond the initial command name.  Second, you  
get a chance to edit what you find before execution.  Third, you can  
go further back by pressing ctrl-r again. But sometimes the "!prefix"  
trick is better (at least for me) because I can "embed" the command  
in a larger command, like the "sudo !!" trick above, and for tricks  
like the following.  Suppose you type a long command like "cat /path/ 
to/file", then you need to look at another file in that directory,  
then you realize that you really should have changed into the  
containing directory first.  E.g.:

     cat /path/to/file1
     cat /path/to/file2
     # boy, I wish I'd changed into /path/to

Instead of typing "cd /path/to", you can do this command:

     cd !$:h

where the "!$" means the last word on the previous command line, and  
the ":h" modifier extracts the "head", which is "/path/to", turning  
that last "cd" command into:

     cd /path/to

Yet another of my favorite Bash tricks is "yank-last-arg".  This is  
mapped by default to meta-period (alt-period).  It yanks the last  
argument from the previous command line and pastes it into the  
command you are currently editing.  If you press alt-period again, it  
changes the yanked word to the last word on the preceding command  
line, ad infinitum.  This is great in many circumstances, because you  
often need to perform a series of commands on the same file or  
directory.  As examples:

     mkdir /path/to/new/directory

then, if you type:

     cd <alt-period>

it will become:

     cd /path/to/new/directory

Aliases are another keystroke-saving feature of Bash.  If you find  
yourself repeating a given command enough, you can define an alias in  
your ~/.bashrc file to shorten the invocation.  For example, suppose  
you found yourself using the following "ssh" command for a remote  
login session:

     ssh btth@nakedincisor.com

You could put the following line in your ~/.bashrc file:

     alias ni='ssh btth@nakedincisor.com'

and, after closing your bash prompt and restarting (or just typing ".  
~/.bashrc" to source the new definition), you can just type "ni" to  
execute that ssh operation.
You could also make this alias:

     alias p='pine'

and you could run pine in just two keystrokes.

Some final keystroke-saving notes:

- in the command "su - root", the word "root" is redundant; the  
comand "su -" is equivalent to "su - root", which can save you five  
characters :-).

- entering "cd" by itself changes to your home directory, so "cd / 
home/btth" is several characters longer than necessary, assuming you  
login as btth.

- typing "cd -" takes you back to your previous working directory, so  
you could do:

     cd /some/big/ugly/path
     ls
     rm junk
     cd -

   you'd be right back where you started before going to the /some/ 
big/ugly/path.

Hopefully something here will help you in your quest for keystroke  
minimization.

Michael Henry




From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May  8 16:12:53 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May  8 17:31:08 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <445E8DE2.4040802@aol.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>	<445E8DE2.4040802@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1147119173.13117.12.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 20:16 -0400, John B. Holmblad wrote:
> Beartooth,
> 
> my perception (and it is just that since I have not used/tested
> openwrt) is that among other things the openwrt platform "exposes" a
> lot more functionality inherent in the IEEE 802.11 wireless protcols,
> including the ones pertaining to secure wireless transmission, IEEE
> 8-2.11i, than those available in the standard (e.g. Linksys) wireless
> router firmware build.

Please explain what you mean by:
'"exposes" a lot more functionality inherent in the IEEE 802.11 ...'

As in "exposes" what in what way, good or bad?

Now to explain my question by telling my point of view.
(Note this has been gleamed from reading the documentation only as my
current CHEAP[1] Linksys wireless hub isn't supported.)

Openwrt's software makes more/further use of (or at least tries to) of
the limited hardware provided by the manufacture of these hardware
devices. As far as any exposure of the "IEEE 802.11 wireless protocols"
other then making a number of features in the protocol more access able
to the more common(power) user I see no further exposure.

[1] Cheap as in original price only
    and that's not always a good thing in the long run. <GRIN>


--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
October 12, the Discovery.
 It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful
to miss it. 
 -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"
From jholmblad at aol.com  Mon May  8 20:39:53 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Mon May  8 20:39:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
Message-ID: <413.1118dca.31913eb6@aol.com>

Don,

"exposes" in the sense that the openwet makes the full potential of 802.11i security capabilities accessible to the user. 8n other words in the good sense of the term.

Best Regards

John B. Holmblad

Televerage International

(m) 703 407 2278
(o)  410 849 2376 (has voicemail to  email)
(f)   703 620 0672


-----Original Message-----
From: "donjr" <djr1952@hotpop.com>
To: jholmblad@aol.com
Cc: "Beartooth" <karhunhammas@Lserv.com>; "Northern Virginia Linux User's Group" <novalug@tux.org>
Sent: 5/8/06 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [novalug] Openwrt project

On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 20:16 -0400, John B. Holmblad wrote:
> Beartooth,
> 
> my perception (and it is just that since I have not used/tested
> openwrt) is that among other things the openwrt platform "exposes" a
> lot more functionality inherent in the IEEE 802.11 wireless protcols,
> including the ones pertaining to secure wireless transmission, IEEE
> 8-2.11i, than those available in the standard (e.g. Linksys) wireless
> router firmware build.

Please explain what you mean by:
'"exposes" a lot more functionality inherent in the IEEE 802.11 ...'

As in "exposes" what in what way, good or bad?

Now to explain my question by telling my point of view.
(Note this has been gleamed from reading the documentation only as my
current CHEAP[1] Linksys wireless hub isn't supported.)

Openwrt's software makes more/further use of (or at least tries to) of
the limited hardware provided by the manufacture of these hardware
devices. As far as any exposure of the "IEEE 802.11 wireless protocols"
other then making a number of features in the protocol more access able
to the more common(power) user I see no further exposure.

[1] Cheap as in original price only
    and that's not always a good thing in the long run. <GRIN>


--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
October 12, the Discovery.
 It was wonderful to find America, but it would have been more wonderful
to miss it. 
 -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"

From dayalan at nova.org  Tue May  9 06:53:23 2006
From: dayalan at nova.org (W Alan Day)
Date: Tue May  9 07:17:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] Network Printer access
Message-ID: <446074A3.5030101@nova.org>

I would like to be able to use an HP psc 2410 printer connected to an
iMac running under OS X from my client laptop (IBM T42 running Kanotix
4).  I have enabled printer sharing and SAMBA on the iMac and made my
linux workgroup name WORKGROUP (the default iMac workgroup).  It goes
through the motions, says the file has been printed, nothing comes out, 
and the job does not appear on any job queues.  This bits go into the 
great bit bucket in the sky.

Which print driver is operative here, the linux driver or the iMac 
driver?  And is the (presumed NFS) network important or the SAMBA version?

When the iMac and printer are powered up (cups Server: localhost:631) I 
can see:
-----
hppsc2410photo smartall-in-one
Type: Local printer
State: Idle (accepting jobs)
Location: iMac
Description: HP PSC 2400
URL: ipp://t42-631/printers/hppsc2410photosmartall-in-one

Device: usb/dev/usb/lp0
Model: HP PSC 2400 Foomatic/hpijs (recommended)

(this is the default when connected via USB (works fine))
-----
psc_2400_series

Type: Remote printer
State: Idle (accepting jobs)
Location: Location Unknown
Description: psc 2400 series
URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series

Device:
Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local
-----
psc_2400_series-1

Type: Remote printer
State: Idle (accepting jobs)
Location: Janet Daya--s Computer
(the second a in Daya has a ^ & the 2 dashed are boxes)

Description: psc 2400 series
URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series-1

Device:
Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local

-- 
W. Alan Day <dayalan@nova.org>
"Day Hikes in the Metro Area (no pun intended)"
http://DayHikes.org/       http://DayHikes.org/Days_of_Yore/




From jholmblad at aol.com  Tue May  9 10:45:41 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Tue May  9 10:45:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] (no subject)
Message-ID: <32d.3779cf0.319204f3@aol.com>

All,

At last Saturday's Novalug event the speaker mentioned the upcoming Redhat Summit. I would like to know if anyone on.this.list has attended this event in prior years, and, ifso, do you believe it was worth the time/money to attend?

Best Regards

John B. Holmblad

Televerage International

(m) 703 407 2278
(o)  410 849 2376 (has voicemail to  email)
(f)   703 620 0672

From vze2ygs7 at verizon.net  Tue May  9 09:47:03 2006
From: vze2ygs7 at verizon.net (jerry)
Date: Tue May  9 11:07:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] Openwrt project
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
References: <445E116D.3030501@aol.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605071233480.23920@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <44609D57.2060208@verizon.net>

bottom posting

Beartooth wrote:

> On Sun, 7 May 2006, John B. Holmblad wrote:
>
>> this might make an interesting topic for a future novalug meeting, 
>> assuming there is someone interested in and knowledgable about about 
>> this opensource wireless router project:
>>
>>      http://openwrt.org/
>
>
>     VDQ : IF I understand aright, and IF there's a linux version, the 
> idea is to download that and put it somehow into your router *instead* 
> of whatever code Linksys, D-Link, or whoever ships it with. Izzatso? 
> If it is, will it also work on a wired-only router?
>
FYI
from http://dclug.tux.org/dclug_bytes2004.html


	Wednesday, October 20, 2004
Speaker(s): Serge Wroclawski 	

    * This month meeting's talk was about the popular Linksys WRT54G
      router. Serge Wroclawski discussed the router's capabilities and
      using the OpenWRT distribution on the router, including a
      demonstration of flashing the device and making customizations to
      the new router.

      No slides are available at this time...



From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Tue May  9 10:50:39 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Tue May  9 11:19:56 2006
Subject: [novalug] Linux Cluster Forum/BWBUG meeting this afternoon
Message-ID: <20060509145039.GB6133@rfa.org>

It will be streamed live again. The meeting is scheduled to start around
14:30 this afternoon. See the BWBUG site for meeting topic and speaker
bio: http://www.bwbug.org/

Live video and audio streams of the talk will be available again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
Video:                                                                                                                                                                                                              
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.theora.ogg                                                                                                                                                                      
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.theora.ogg                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
Audio:                                                                                                                                                                                                              
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.audio.ogg                                                                                                                                                                       
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.audio.ogg                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
No stream at the moment. It should be up in a little while. Live chat
feedback in #bwbug on irc.freenode.net

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Tue May  9 14:39:06 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Tue May  9 14:39:26 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: Linux Cluster Forum/BWBUG meeting this afternoon
In-Reply-To: <20060509145039.GB6133@rfa.org>
References: <20060509145039.GB6133@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <20060509183904.GC6133@rfa.org>

I messed up the URLs in my first mail. They are corrected below. The
meeting should be starting in a few minutes.

On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 10:50:39AM -0400, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
> It will be streamed live again. The meeting is scheduled to start around
> 14:30 this afternoon. See the BWBUG site for meeting topic and speaker
> bio: http://www.bwbug.org/
> 
> Live video and audio streams of the talk will be available again.

Video:                                                                                                                                                                                                              
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.theora.ogg
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.theora.ogg

Audio:
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.audio.ogg
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/bwbug.audio.ogg                                                                                                                                                                       

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Tue May  9 16:37:42 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Tue May  9 16:37:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: Linux Cluster Forum/BWBUG meeting this afternoon
In-Reply-To: <20060509183904.GC6133@rfa.org>
References: <20060509145039.GB6133@rfa.org> <20060509183904.GC6133@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <20060509203740.GD6133@rfa.org>

On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 02:39:06PM -0400, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
> I messed up the URLs in my first mail. They are corrected below. The
> meeting should be starting in a few minutes.
> 
> On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 10:50:39AM -0400, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
> > It will be streamed live again. The meeting is scheduled to start around
> > 14:30 this afternoon. See the BWBUG site for meeting topic and speaker
> > bio: http://www.bwbug.org/
> > 
> > Live video and audio streams of the talk will be available again.

The meeting just finished. For anyone who wanted to watch but wasn't
able to, the file is available for viewing at your leisure:

http://techweb.rfa.org/images/bwbug/

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Tue May  9 16:46:34 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Tue May  9 16:46:59 2006
Subject: [novalug] stream links for DCLUG meeting Wed, May 17th
Message-ID: <20060509204632.GE6133@rfa.org>

There will be live streams available for next Wednesday's DCLUG meeting.
The meeting is scheduled to start around 19:00. Check the DCLUG site for
meeting topic and speaker info: http://dclug.tux.org

URLs for the live video stream of the talk:

Video (video and audio):
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg

Audio only (camera audio with the video stripped out):
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg

I'll be in #dclug on irc.freenode.net for live chat feedback. I'll try
to have the stream up around 18:00 if you want to tune in early to sort
out any client issues.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From bidwell at dead-city.org  Tue May  9 18:18:31 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Tue May  9 19:18:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Request for shipping boxes
Message-ID: <44611537.1050104@dead-city.org>

Hey all,
As mentioned previously, I'm moving.  I've got
a few personal machines I need to pack up and
move, and of course I didn't keep the boxes.
The biggy is a Dell Poweredge 1600sc. I've also
got two regular sized towers.   I'm hoping
someone on list works at a data center or bigger
company that might get boxes like this in all
the time and can save me the packing material.
I can either pick up late or during the day
with some notice.
Thanks
Matt
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May 10 07:18:02 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May 10 07:18:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
In-Reply-To: <529109D6-E35F-4F4F-B770-4C86C9974B1A@drmikehenry.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605060953430.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605061750.13295.novalug@slipt.net>
	<20060506225530.GL16533@mathom.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605070734160.23920@titan.lserv.com>
	<529109D6-E35F-4F4F-B770-4C86C9974B1A@drmikehenry.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605100414540.29715@titan.lserv.com>

On Sun, 7 May 2006, Michael Henry wrote:

>
> Your comment reminded me of one of my favorite Bash features: 
> reverse incremental search through the command history (search 
> for "reverse-search-history" in the Bash manpage for more 
> details).
[...<snipperoo>]
> Hopefully something here will help you in your quest for 
> keystroke minimization.

 	WOW! That post is as full of good stuff as an egg is of 
meat, as the British say. I'll be some time training my fingers 
to those things -- and gaining on my arthritis all the time as I 
do. Many, many thanks!

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Wordcrafty Squirreler,
Neo-Redneck Retiree,  Not Quite Clueless Power User

From greg at pryzby.org  Wed May 10 07:44:17 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Wed May 10 07:43:01 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Test
Message-ID: <20060510114417.GA20403@pryzby.org>

There appears to be a mailman issue. Testing to see if it is fixed.

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From Roger at just.net  Wed May 10 08:02:26 2006
From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus)
Date: Wed May 10 08:02:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: novalug Digest, Vol 24, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <200605101139.k4ABdgua020045@gwyn.tux.org>
References: <200605101139.k4ABdgua020045@gwyn.tux.org>
Message-ID: <37802.150.148.0.65.1147262546.squirrel@63.138.251.57>

Mike,

Your post is an example of a hidden gem: one would never have guessed from
the subject line where your stream of conciousness would take me. I'm
gonna save your tips for my future in the universe of the command line
interface.

And, it makes me think: gosh I wish I could pick and choose easily from
the output of one command to put all/part of it into a new command, with
key strokes. I find "click/drag - copy - paste" to be a drag.

/roger

> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 23:58:53 -0400
> From: Michael Henry <drmikehenry@drmikehenry.com>
> Subject: Re: [novalug] VVDQ : drawer for KDE??
> To: novalug@tux.org
> Message-ID: <529109D6-E35F-4F4F-B770-4C86C9974B1A@drmikehenry.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On May 7, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Beartooth wrote:
>
>> As far as that goes, I even do commands like "su - root," "cd /home/
>> btth," and "pine" with the up arrow all I can -- to say nothing of
>> long ones, like ssh-ing into my remote account. (I just had to
>> retype "remote" three times, and "retype" twice ...)
>
> Your comment reminded me of one of my favorite Bash features: reverse
> incremental search through the command history (search for "reverse-
> search-history" in the Bash manpage for more details).
[snip]

From jhart at kevla.org  Wed May 10 10:24:08 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Wed May 10 10:51:07 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
Message-ID: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and Windows. Something similar to
Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).

For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio, please reply to list so others
can learn what devices are out.

Jay Hart

From malloryd at themallorys.us  Wed May 10 11:11:49 2006
From: malloryd at themallorys.us (Duane C. Mallory)
Date: Wed May 10 11:38:51 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>

I use the Linksys NAS; it's small and compact (don't remember the model 
#). It's also quite nice because it runs linux w/samba. If you want, you 
can actually run OpenSlug on it, and boot from the attached hard drive 
which allows you to run additional apps on it as well.

DCM


Jay Hart wrote:
> I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and Windows. Something similar to
> Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).
> 
> For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio, please reply to list so others
> can learn what devices are out.
> 
> Jay Hart
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From dbock at fgm.com  Wed May 10 11:50:23 2006
From: dbock at fgm.com (David Bock)
Date: Wed May 10 12:02:48 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>
Message-ID: <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>

The device I believe you are referring to is the linksys NSLU2.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/73de/

I have one... bought it solely because I could hack it.  I don't have 
any absolute measurements, but it is SLOW...  For a while I used it to 
share an itunes library between a couple of computers, and at times it 
couldn't keep up with 2 computers playing stuff at the same time... and 
it wasn't network saturation (and yes, I was using a USB 2.0 drive).

-db


Duane C. Mallory wrote:
> I use the Linksys NAS; it's small and compact (don't remember the model 
> #). It's also quite nice because it runs linux w/samba. If you want, you 
> can actually run OpenSlug on it, and boot from the attached hard drive 
> which allows you to run additional apps on it as well.
> 
> DCM
> 
> 
> Jay Hart wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and 
>> Windows. Something similar to
>> Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).
>>
>> For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio, 
>> please reply to list so others
>> can learn what devices are out.
>>
>> Jay Hart
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From Roger at just.net  Wed May 10 12:46:51 2006
From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus)
Date: Wed May 10 12:46:59 2006
Subject: [novalug] SuSE 10.0 won't print
Message-ID: <45449.150.148.0.65.1147279611.squirrel@63.138.251.57>

Just installed SuSE 10.0 (could not wait for 10.1). Now I can not print.
Suggestions of fix?

Release notes say:

> Using Parallel-Port Printers

> Reboot may be required after parallel-port printer setup with YaST. If
printing does not work when a parallel-port printer was set up with
YaST, reboot and then do not run the YaST printer setup again for
testing. Only parallel-port printers in ECP/DMA mode are affected.

This does not do the trick, i.e., rebooting and NOT running a TEST print
under Yast.

I have a Brother 5140 on a parallel port and it worked fine under SuSE 9.3.

-- 
Roger W. Broseus

From jhart at kevla.org  Wed May 10 12:58:59 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Wed May 10 12:59:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <44620C4C.7090009@zenzic.net>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<44620C4C.7090009@zenzic.net>
Message-ID: <9420.140.185.96.57.1147280339.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> I recently bought/deployed a Infrant readyNAS600, it works nicely, 1.6TB.
> It is not the SCSIarray+fastCPU+mylexcardRAID machine I would have
> preferred to
> build, but it is alot cheaper and I haven't had any significant problems
> with it.
> Probably will buy more.
> (+compactflash linux derived OS, +supports linux)
> (- no serial console access on my model for oob)
>
> They seem to have some newer models also.
> http://www.infrant.com/products_ReadyNAS600.htm
> http://www.infrant.com/ReadyNAS_family.htm

Overkill and a half....  Looks nice though.

Jay
>
> good luck...
>
> _Craig
>
> Jay Hart wrote:
>
>>I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and Windows. Something similar to
>>Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).
>>
>>For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio, please reply to list so others
>>can learn what devices are out.
>>
>>Jay Hart
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ma-linux mailing list
>>ma-linux@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-linux
>>
>>
>
>


From mstone at mathom.us  Wed May 10 12:00:48 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Wed May 10 13:01:40 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: novalug Digest, Vol 24, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <37802.150.148.0.65.1147262546.squirrel@63.138.251.57>
References: <200605101139.k4ABdgua020045@gwyn.tux.org>
	<37802.150.148.0.65.1147262546.squirrel@63.138.251.57>
Message-ID: <20060510160047.GR16533@mathom.us>

On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 08:02:26AM -0400, Roger W. Broseus wrote:
>And, it makes me think: gosh I wish I could pick and choose easily from
>the output of one command to put all/part of it into a new command, with
>key strokes. I find "click/drag - copy - paste" to be a drag.

You can do that with "screen", or by piping.

Mike Stone

From bidwell at dead-city.org  Wed May 10 14:17:38 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Wed May 10 14:17:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <8588061.1147282440811.JavaMail.sgentzen@mac.com>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>	<44620C4C.7090009@zenzic.net>	<9420.140.185.96.57.1147280339.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<8588061.1147282440811.JavaMail.sgentzen@mac.com>
Message-ID: <44622E42.6000505@dead-city.org>

Scott Gentzen wrote:
> I've been watching this thread hoping someone would mention the Linksys NSLU2.  
> 
> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1118334819312&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
> 
> I don't have one but I;ve been interested in it since I first heard of it.  Basically, it's a little NAS head that you can plug USB2 drives into to share them over the network.  That's right up my alley, as I have a 400GB external drive that I plug into my laptop as needed.   Just haven't heard of anyone that's actually using it.
> 
<snip>
I'm using it.
I'm backing up a few machines to it.  It is kind of slow, so I'm not
sure if anyone would ever be happy with it as a file server device.
The backup software that comes with it stinks, and needs to
be hacked just to do more then 3 jobs.  Right now I'm trying to
get Dirvish work on it make better backups.
Oh yeah, if you unsling onto the device, it puts the file
system onto your disk.  So if you plan to use the device
with two disks and carry a backup off site, you have to plan to
have the same unslung file system om both disks.

Matt
From kevin at druffs.com  Wed May 10 14:51:12 2006
From: kevin at druffs.com (Kevin Druff)
Date: Wed May 10 14:50:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] Network Printer access
In-Reply-To: <446074A3.5030101@nova.org>
References: <446074A3.5030101@nova.org>
Message-ID: <44623620.2040408@druffs.com>

Any reason why you're not running it with CUPS? Here at the office we 
run Samba for our Windows clients, but all our printing is done via IPP 
and CUPS.

Cheers,

Kevin Druff
James Webb for U.S. Senate
(703) 778-4080x205
http://www.webbforsenate.com
kevin@webbforsenate.com



W Alan Day wrote:
> I would like to be able to use an HP psc 2410 printer connected to an
> iMac running under OS X from my client laptop (IBM T42 running Kanotix
> 4).  I have enabled printer sharing and SAMBA on the iMac and made my
> linux workgroup name WORKGROUP (the default iMac workgroup).  It goes
> through the motions, says the file has been printed, nothing comes 
> out, and the job does not appear on any job queues.  This bits go into 
> the great bit bucket in the sky.
>
> Which print driver is operative here, the linux driver or the iMac 
> driver?  And is the (presumed NFS) network important or the SAMBA 
> version?
>
> When the iMac and printer are powered up (cups Server: localhost:631) 
> I can see:
> -----
> hppsc2410photo smartall-in-one
> Type: Local printer
> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
> Location: iMac
> Description: HP PSC 2400
> URL: ipp://t42-631/printers/hppsc2410photosmartall-in-one
>
> Device: usb/dev/usb/lp0
> Model: HP PSC 2400 Foomatic/hpijs (recommended)
>
> (this is the default when connected via USB (works fine))
> -----
> psc_2400_series
>
> Type: Remote printer
> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
> Location: Location Unknown
> Description: psc 2400 series
> URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series
>
> Device:
> Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local
> -----
> psc_2400_series-1
>
> Type: Remote printer
> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
> Location: Janet Daya--s Computer
> (the second a in Daya has a ^ & the 2 dashed are boxes)
>
> Description: psc 2400 series
> URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series-1
>
> Device:
> Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local
>

-- 
Kevin Druff
James Webb for U.S. Senate
(703) 778-4080x205
http://www.webbforsenate.com
kevin@webbforsenate.com

From LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info  Wed May 10 15:37:10 2006
From: LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info (Bernie Hoefer)
Date: Wed May 10 16:25:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] SuSE 10.0 won't print
In-Reply-To: <45449.150.148.0.65.1147279611.squirrel@63.138.251.57>
References: <45449.150.148.0.65.1147279611.squirrel@63.138.251.57>
Message-ID: <446240E6.90603@TheMoreIKnow.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Roger W. Broseus wrote:
===
> Just installed SuSE 10.0 (could not wait for 10.1). Now I can not
> print. Suggestions of fix?
===
     Was this a fresh install or an upgrade?  I'm assuming you did an
upgrade.  Although you shouldn't have had to, have you gone through and
setup the printer again using YaST?
     You might want to search the Novell bugzilla database for your
problem.  Here is the URL for my search on "Brother 5140 printing" for
the SuSE Linux 10.0 product.  The discussion of bug 118111 has some good
advice on steps to toubleshoot a printing problem.

<https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=SUSE+LINUX+10.0&content=Brother+5140+printing>

- --
Bernie Hoefer
PGP e-mail is welcome!  Get my 1024 bit signature key from:
<http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x446A6F93>.
"The more I know, the more I realize how much I do not understand."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFEYkDbckGmqURqb5MRAuiQAJoDD1x8TWNG44TLZ+5NZUkdyvn4ngCfZaHd
NWCeK09vQQwpnlK5+SO4CAk=
=ke1H
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From lgj at usenix.org  Wed May 10 16:34:16 2006
From: lgj at usenix.org (Lionel Garth Jones)
Date: Wed May 10 17:06:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] MetriCon 1.0 Call for Participation
Message-ID: <44624E48.1050209@usenix.org>

----------------------------------
MetriCon 1.0 Call for Participation
First Workshop on Security Metrics (MetriCon 1.0)
August 1, 2006
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Sponsored by USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association
Submissions Deadline: May 15, 2006
http://www.usenix.org/metricon06/cfpa/
-----------------------------------

Dear Colleague,

I'm writing to invite you to participate in the First Workshop on
Security Metrics (MetriCon 1.0), taking place August 1, 2006, in
Vancouver, B.C., Canada.

MetriCon 1.0 is intended as a forum for lively, practical discussion in
the area of security metrics. It is a forum for quantifiable approaches
and results to problems afflicting information security today, with a
bias towards practical, specific implementations. Topics and
presentations will be selected for their potential to stimulate
discussion in the workshop.

The goal of the workshop is to stimulate discussion of and thinking
about security metrics and to do so in ways that lead to realistic,
early results of lasting value. Potential attendees are invited to
submit position papers to be shared with all. Such position papers are
expected to address security metrics in one of the following categories:

* Benchmarking
* Empirical studies
* Metrics definitions
* Financial planning
* Security/risk modeling
* Visualization

Practical implementations, real-world case studies, and detailed models
will be preferred over broader models or general ideas.

Short postion paper submissions are due May 15, 2006. Full submissions
guidelines and more information can be found at
http://www.usenix.org/metricon06/cfpa/

MetriCon 1.0 will be a one-day event, Tuesday, August 1, 2006,
co-located with the 15th USENIX Security Symposium in Vancouver, B.C.,
Canada. It will begin first thing in the morning, with meals taken in
the meeting room, and will extend into the evening.

Attendance will be by invitation only and limited to 50 participants.
All participants will be expected to "come with opinions" and be willing
to address the group in some fashion, formally or not. Preference will
be given to the authors of position papers/presentations who have actual
work in progress.

We look forward to your submissions.

On behalf of the MetriCon 1.0 Program Committee,

Andrew Jaquith, Yankee Group
MetriCon 1.0 Program Chair

----------------------------------
MetriCon 1.0 Call for Participation
First Workshop on Security Metrics (MetriCon 1.0)
August 1, 2006
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Sponsored by USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association
Submissions Deadline: May 15, 2006
http://www.usenix.org/metricon06/cfpa/
-----------------------------------
From sreddy_08854 at yahoo.com  Wed May 10 18:14:24 2006
From: sreddy_08854 at yahoo.com (Shashank Reddy)
Date: Wed May 10 18:41:12 2006
Subject: [novalug] Help in creating a chroot jail for cvs
Message-ID: <20060510221424.51502.qmail@web51106.mail.yahoo.com>

I am trying to create a chroot jail for cvs on rhel 4.
I followed instructions from this site
http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/articles/linux/setting-up-a-chroot-jail-for-cvs.php.

I also tried a set of scripts from here
http://olivier.sessink.nl/jailkit/howtos_cvs_only.html

However I was not succesfull. I was wondering if
anyone has a better reference guide where I can look
up the steps. Thx in advance.

Shashank


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From mark at winksmith.com  Wed May 10 21:14:56 2006
From: mark at winksmith.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Wed May 10 21:37:35 2006
Subject: [novalug] red hat on new Toshiba high end dvd player
Message-ID: <20060511011456.GA29315@winksmith.com>

while scanning this web page:

	http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx

which is about a guy who heard a rumbor that the new Toshiba HD-A1
containsas a 2.5GHz Pentium 4 CPU with 1GB of PC2700 DDR RAM (and
other stuff).  it turns out it's true.

later on, i found this gem inside the article:

	UPDATE: I was able to successfully connect the flash disk
	to XP and analyze the individual sectors.  In the process
	I discovered that internally the unit runs on Red Hat.  It
	looks like it was originally formatted as FAT32, and then
	repartitioned with ext2fs.

-- 
Mark Smith
mark@winksmith.com
mark at tux dot org
nova-instructor at tux dot org
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Wed May 10 23:14:48 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Wed May 10 23:41:35 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
Message-ID: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero 
out.

http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From linux_author at verizon.net  Thu May 11 04:17:15 2006
From: linux_author at verizon.net (billy b.)
Date: Thu May 11 05:17:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>

- interesting... but why would the minimal install space required be 
500MB?????

http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX_System_Requirements.html

On May 10, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Dan Arico wrote:

> I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero
> out.
>
> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
>
> Dan Arico
>
> -- 
> One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
> One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
> In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From dayalan at nova.org  Thu May 11 06:34:13 2006
From: dayalan at nova.org (W Alan Day)
Date: Thu May 11 06:50:16 2006
Subject: [novalug] Network Printer access
In-Reply-To: <44623620.2040408@druffs.com>
References: <446074A3.5030101@nova.org> <44623620.2040408@druffs.com>
Message-ID: <44631325.9060505@nova.org>

The only information I have on the iMac comes from the iMac help screens 
and I have followed the directions they present.  I don't know anything 
else that is going on under the hood.  I have turned on SAMBA because 
there are a couple of Windows machines that could use this as well.
	Alan

Kevin Druff wrote:
> Any reason why you're not running it with CUPS? Here at the office we 
> run Samba for our Windows clients, but all our printing is done via IPP 
> and CUPS.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kevin Druff
> James Webb for U.S. Senate
> (703) 778-4080x205
> http://www.webbforsenate.com
> kevin@webbforsenate.com
> 
> 
> 
> W Alan Day wrote:
> 
>> I would like to be able to use an HP psc 2410 printer connected to an
>> iMac running under OS X from my client laptop (IBM T42 running Kanotix
>> 4).  I have enabled printer sharing and SAMBA on the iMac and made my
>> linux workgroup name WORKGROUP (the default iMac workgroup).  It goes
>> through the motions, says the file has been printed, nothing comes 
>> out, and the job does not appear on any job queues.  This bits go into 
>> the great bit bucket in the sky.
>>
>> Which print driver is operative here, the linux driver or the iMac 
>> driver?  And is the (presumed NFS) network important or the SAMBA 
>> version?
>>
>> When the iMac and printer are powered up (cups Server: localhost:631) 
>> I can see:
>> -----
>> hppsc2410photo smartall-in-one
>> Type: Local printer
>> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
>> Location: iMac
>> Description: HP PSC 2400
>> URL: ipp://t42-631/printers/hppsc2410photosmartall-in-one
>>
>> Device: usb/dev/usb/lp0
>> Model: HP PSC 2400 Foomatic/hpijs (recommended)
>>
>> (this is the default when connected via USB (works fine))
>> -----
>> psc_2400_series
>>
>> Type: Remote printer
>> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
>> Location: Location Unknown
>> Description: psc 2400 series
>> URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series
>>
>> Device:
>> Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local
>> -----
>> psc_2400_series-1
>>
>> Type: Remote printer
>> State: Idle (accepting jobs)
>> Location: Janet Daya--s Computer
>> (the second a in Daya has a ^ & the 2 dashed are boxes)
>>
>> Description: psc 2400 series
>> URL: ipp://janet-days-computer.local/printers/psc_2400_series-1
>>
>> Device:
>> Model: psc 2400 series on Janet-Days-Computer.local
>>
> 

-- 
W. Alan Day <dayalan@nova.org>     703-860-0181 (H)
"Day Hikes in the Metro Area (no pun intended)"
http://DayHikes.org/       http://DayHikes.org/Days_of_Yore/
From jhart at kevla.org  Thu May 11 07:14:48 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Thu May 11 07:15:07 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <48896.140.185.96.57.1147346088.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

Once had a NT 4.0 workstations with Nero installed. Replaced the CDR with another model and Nero
didn't work with the new drive.

So, I un-installed Nero, and rebooted the box. But Nero failed to correctly unload several drivers
via the registry, and when I rebooted, the filesystem got corrupted. Had to wipe the box to
recover.

Moral of this story, you couldn't pay me enough to use Nero....

Jay

> - interesting... but why would the minimal install space required be
> 500MB?????
>
> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX_System_Requirements.html
>
> On May 10, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Dan Arico wrote:
>
>> I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero
>> out.
>>
>> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
>>
>> Dan Arico
>>
>> --
>> One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
>> One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
>> In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>


From malloryd at themallorys.us  Thu May 11 07:24:15 2006
From: malloryd at themallorys.us (Duane C. Mallory)
Date: Thu May 11 07:24:25 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <48896.140.185.96.57.1147346088.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>	<60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>
	<48896.140.185.96.57.1147346088.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <44631EDF.3040709@themallorys.us>

I've been using Nero for many years, upgrading regularly to newer 
versions, and never had a single problem with it. That said, I have 
looked at the Linux version and, in my opinion, it is not yet ready for 
prime time. There are many apps that currently do the same thing under 
Linux and do it better.

Just my 2 cents.

DCM


Jay Hart wrote:
> Once had a NT 4.0 workstations with Nero installed. Replaced the CDR with another model and Nero
> didn't work with the new drive.
> 
> So, I un-installed Nero, and rebooted the box. But Nero failed to correctly unload several drivers
> via the registry, and when I rebooted, the filesystem got corrupted. Had to wipe the box to
> recover.
> 
> Moral of this story, you couldn't pay me enough to use Nero....
> 
> Jay
> 
>> - interesting... but why would the minimal install space required be
>> 500MB?????
>>
>> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX_System_Requirements.html
>>
>> On May 10, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Dan Arico wrote:
>>
>>> I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero
>>> out.
>>>
>>> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
>>>
>>> Dan Arico
>>>
>>> --
>>> One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
>>> One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
>>> In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> novalug mailing list
>>> novalug@tux.org
>>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From mezzenger at gmail.com  Thu May 11 06:50:25 2006
From: mezzenger at gmail.com (Alvin Smith)
Date: Thu May 11 07:48:55 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<60f2f5e478e95be4a70fde9fb6112559@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <974b10640605110350p58bc4b0bh19ec58e0af273cc4@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/11/06, billy b. <linux_author@verizon.net> wrote:
> - interesting... but why would the minimal install space required be
> 500MB?????

Probably for scratch space for single CDROM systems to be able to make
standard CD copies.

----------------------
Hard disc space

500 MB for a standard installation
Up to 9 GB available hard disc space for DVD images and temporary DVD files
----------------------

From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Thu May 11 09:22:20 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Thu May 11 09:49:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <44631EDF.3040709@themallorys.us>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<48896.140.185.96.57.1147346088.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<44631EDF.3040709@themallorys.us>
Message-ID: <200605110922.20836.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Thu May 11 2006 7:24 am, Duane C. Mallory wrote:
> I've been using Nero for many years, upgrading regularly to newer
> versions, and never had a single problem with it. That said, I have
> looked at the Linux version and, in my opinion, it is not yet ready
> for prime time. There are many apps that currently do the same thing
> under Linux and do it better.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> DCM

The one snag I've run into under Linux is the software to convert between 
video formats. Specifically, I'd like to be able to go from avi to DVD 
format. The software exists, but I've gotten buried by dependency 
problems. I know Nero can do this on that other OS. I can't help 
wondering if it could solve my problem on Linux.

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From vkbhaskar at yahoo.com  Thu May 11 09:43:43 2006
From: vkbhaskar at yahoo.com (bhaskar karambelkar)
Date: Thu May 11 10:10:30 2006
Subject: [novalug] Round up of new features of Vim 7.0
Message-ID: <20060511134343.94935.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>

Guys,
I just putup a webpage rounding up new features in Vim 7.0
Check it out and let me know what you think of it.

http://bhaskarvk.info/vim70-review-00.html

thanks
bhaskar

best regards
bhaskar
http://www.bhaskarvk.info

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dac at cafaro.net  Thu May 11 10:47:23 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Thu May 11 11:10:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>

Nero for Linux has been out for at least a year now.  I actually rather
enjoy using it.  It has worked well on my linux desktops.  The only
issues I've had were occasions where it had issues recognizing external
USB DVD writers.  Other than that it has worked well.

If it wasn't for the ease at which I can create and burn CD's/DVD's from
within nautilus now in FC5 I would probably use Nero.  If I were ever to
use a standalone CD/DVD writing program, I would probably lean towards
Nero.

-David


On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 23:14 -0400, Dan Arico wrote:
> I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero 
> out.
> 
> http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
> 
> Dan Arico
> 
-- 
David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>

From mark at winksmith.com  Thu May 11 11:29:40 2006
From: mark at winksmith.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Thu May 11 11:29:48 2006
Subject: [novalug] Round up of new features of Vim 7.0
In-Reply-To: <20060511134343.94935.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060511134343.94935.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060511152940.GA9329@winksmith.com>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 06:43:43AM -0700, bhaskar karambelkar wrote:
> I just putup a webpage rounding up new features in Vim 7.0
> Check it out and let me know what you think of it.
> 
> http://bhaskarvk.info/vim70-review-00.html

i know it's gonna have a spell checker.  is it available yet?
i wouldn't mind giving it a go.

-- 
Mark Smith
mark@winksmith.com
mark at tux dot org
nova-instructor at tux dot org
From jbholland at gmail.com  Thu May 11 09:05:07 2006
From: jbholland at gmail.com (John Holland)
Date: Thu May 11 11:36:31 2006
Subject: [novalug] Subversion
Message-ID: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone had any experiences with Subversion? I have it set up on a test
box and it seems to be pretty good, I haven't seen much difference in using
it than CVS for basic stuff. We would mainly be using it via Subclipse for
Eclipse Java work, unless there is a better way. Their book on the web site
lists the following as some of its advantages:

(http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.intro.features)
Directory versioning

CVS only tracks the history of individual files, but Subversion implements a
"virtual" versioned filesystem that tracks changes to whole directory trees
over time. Files *and* directories are versioned.
True version history

Since CVS is limited to file versioning, operations such as copies and
renames?which might happen to files, but which are really changes to the
contents of some containing directory?aren't supported in CVS. Additionally,
in CVS you cannot replace a versioned file with some new thing of the same
name without the new item inheriting the history of the old?perhaps
completely unrelated?file. With Subversion, you can add, delete, copy, and
rename both files and directories. And every newly added file begins with a
fresh, clean history all its own.
Atomic commits

A collection of modifications either goes into the repository completely, or
not at all. This allows developers to construct and commit changes as
logical chunks, and prevents problems that can occur when only a portion of
a set of changes is successfully sent to the repository.



I guess I'd be interested if anyone has any success of failure stories with
it, major projects using it, etc.

--John
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From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET  Thu May 11 12:27:21 2006
From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd)
Date: Thu May 11 12:27:38 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>
	<44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
Message-ID: <446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>

Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are 
more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a 
chassis directly.

With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what 
to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.

But speaking of upgrades, why not just stick 4 IDE disks in your old 
computer (either use a USB CDROM or temporarily displace a disk for 
installation) and serve up files vis NFS and Samba? Do It Yourself!

JIM

David Bock wrote:
> The device I believe you are referring to is the linksys NSLU2.
> 
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/73de/
> 
> I have one... bought it solely because I could hack it.  I don't have 
> any absolute measurements, but it is SLOW...  For a while I used it to 
> share an itunes library between a couple of computers, and at times it 
> couldn't keep up with 2 computers playing stuff at the same time... and 
> it wasn't network saturation (and yes, I was using a USB 2.0 drive).
> 
> -db
> 
> 
> Duane C. Mallory wrote:
> 
>> I use the Linksys NAS; it's small and compact (don't remember the 
>> model #). It's also quite nice because it runs linux w/samba. If you 
>> want, you can actually run OpenSlug on it, and boot from the attached 
>> hard drive which allows you to run additional apps on it as well.
>>
>> DCM
>>
>>
>> Jay Hart wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and 
>>> Windows. Something similar to
>>> Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).
>>>
>>> For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio, 
>>> please reply to list so others
>>> can learn what devices are out.
>>>
>>> Jay Hart
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> novalug mailing list
>>> novalug@tux.org
>>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Thu May 11 12:51:58 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Thu May 11 13:18:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] Dependancy
Message-ID: <200605111251.59131.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

Something I've been wondering about:

I've run into dependancy problems a number of times when I've tried to 
add things that weren't in my SUSE distribution. It usually comes down 
to a situation where the package I'm trying to add depends on a 
different version of a package that twenty other packages depend on.

1. Is there a way to have both versions present and have each package use 
the version it needs?

2. Is it possible to isolate the new package into a standalone system 
where it has duplicate copies of the packages it depend upon. Sure, it 
would use a lot of disk space, but that's getting cheaper all the time.

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Thu May 11 12:53:49 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Thu May 11 13:19:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us> <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <20060511165349.GC6542@rfa.org>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:27:21PM -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are 
> more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a 
> chassis directly.
> 
> With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what 
> to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.

Maybe just stock up on pata pci cards now?

> But speaking of upgrades, why not just stick 4 IDE disks in your old 
> computer (either use a USB CDROM or temporarily displace a disk for 
> installation) and serve up files vis NFS and Samba? Do It Yourself!
> 
> JIM

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Thu May 11 12:55:57 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Thu May 11 13:19:53 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us> <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <20060511165557.GD6542@rfa.org>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:27:21PM -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are 
> more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a 
> chassis directly.
> 
> With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what 
> to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.
> 
> But speaking of upgrades, why not just stick 4 IDE disks in your old 
> computer (either use a USB CDROM or temporarily displace a disk for 
> installation) and serve up files vis NFS and Samba? Do It Yourself!

I wonder if there is a significant difference in energy use between that
old computer and something like the linksys+usb drives.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From jhart at kevla.org  Thu May 11 14:30:34 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Thu May 11 14:30:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>
	<44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com> <446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <27276.140.185.96.57.1147372234.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are
> more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a
> chassis directly.
>
> With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what
> to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.
>
> But speaking of upgrades, why not just stick 4 IDE disks in your old
> computer (either use a USB CDROM or temporarily displace a disk for
> installation) and serve up files vis NFS and Samba? Do It Yourself!
>

In my case, I am severely space limited. I need to go with a very small footprint, hence a normal
sized PC is not an option.  What I need is something really small.


> JIM
>
> David Bock wrote:
>> The device I believe you are referring to is the linksys NSLU2.
>>
>> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/73de/
>>
>> I have one... bought it solely because I could hack it.  I don't have
>> any absolute measurements, but it is SLOW...  For a while I used it to
>> share an itunes library between a couple of computers, and at times it
>> couldn't keep up with 2 computers playing stuff at the same time... and
>> it wasn't network saturation (and yes, I was using a USB 2.0 drive).
>>
>> -db
>>
>>
>> Duane C. Mallory wrote:
>>
>>> I use the Linksys NAS; it's small and compact (don't remember the
>>> model #). It's also quite nice because it runs linux w/samba. If you
>>> want, you can actually run OpenSlug on it, and boot from the attached
>>> hard drive which allows you to run additional apps on it as well.
>>>
>>> DCM
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay Hart wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm looking at buying a small NAS device that supports linux and
>>>> Windows. Something similar to
>>>> Simpletech's Simpleshare (which I don't think will support linux).
>>>>
>>>> For discussion, if you are using a NAS device for this scenerio,
>>>> please reply to list so others
>>>> can learn what devices are out.
>>>>
>>>> Jay Hart
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> novalug mailing list
>>>> novalug@tux.org
>>>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> novalug mailing list
>>> novalug@tux.org
>>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>


From marlowe at antagonism.org  Thu May 11 14:01:37 2006
From: marlowe at antagonism.org (marlowe)
Date: Thu May 11 14:32:32 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <20060511165557.GD6542@rfa.org>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us>
	<44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET>
	<20060511165557.GD6542@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <44637C01.1060201@antagonism.org>

Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
> On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:27:21PM -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
>> Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are 
>> more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a 
>> chassis directly.
>>
>> With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what 
>> to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.
>>
>> But speaking of upgrades, why not just stick 4 IDE disks in your old 
>> computer (either use a USB CDROM or temporarily displace a disk for 
>> installation) and serve up files vis NFS and Samba? Do It Yourself!
> 
> I wonder if there is a significant difference in energy use between that
> old computer and something like the linksys+usb drives.
> 
It was 60-80W for my old PIII server to 1.5W for the NSLU2
From mstone at mathom.us  Thu May 11 13:59:59 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Thu May 11 15:00:08 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <20060511165557.GD6542@rfa.org>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us> <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET> <20060511165557.GD6542@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <20060511175958.GW16533@mathom.us>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:55:57PM -0400, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
>I wonder if there is a significant difference in energy use between that
>old computer and something like the linksys+usb drives.

Huge. The drive itself will spin down and the rest is drawing something 
on the order of a couple of watts. 

Mike Stone
From bones at necrobones.net  Thu May 11 15:28:19 2006
From: bones at necrobones.net (Ed T. Toton III)
Date: Thu May 11 15:55:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <20060511165349.GC6542@rfa.org>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us> <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET> <20060511165349.GC6542@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0605111523500.11262@reaper.necrobones.net>

Thus spake Eric Dantan Rzewnicki:

> On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:27:21PM -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
>> Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are
>> more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a
>> chassis directly.
>>
>> With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what
>> to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.
>
> Maybe just stock up on pata pci cards now?

Problem is, IIRC, many affordable PCI PATA cards these days are configured 
to function as additional IDE channels, requiring proprietary drivers. I'm 
not sure how easy it is to find traditional controller cards that can be 
seamlessly integrated as replacement primary IDE controllers.

I could be wrong though, I'd love to hear of a particular make/model that 
does this.


------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ed T. Toton III -- http://necrobones.com/ - http://ed.toton.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oh, meltdown. It's one of those annoying buzzwords. We prefer to
  call it an unrequested fission surplus."
                                  -- Mr. Burns

From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Thu May 11 16:17:54 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Thu May 11 16:18:04 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS device that support Linux and Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0605111523500.11262@reaper.necrobones.net>
References: <55824.140.185.96.57.1147271048.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<446202B5.2050500@themallorys.us> <44620BBF.2050608@fgm.com>
	<446365E9.5000701@Comcast.NET> <20060511165349.GC6542@rfa.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0605111523500.11262@reaper.necrobones.net>
Message-ID: <20060511201754.GE6542@rfa.org>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 03:28:19PM -0400, Ed T. Toton III wrote:
> Thus spake Eric Dantan Rzewnicki:
> 
> >On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:27:21PM -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> >>Buying to hack it is Cool. But I wonder about using USB disks (which are
> >>more expensive than IDE) rather than plugging several IDE disks into a
> >>chassis directly.
> >>
> >>With Serial ATA replacing Parallel ATA, we will soon be faced with what
> >>to do with our old disks from our old computers when we upgrade them.
> >
> >Maybe just stock up on pata pci cards now?
> 
> Problem is, IIRC, many affordable PCI PATA cards these days are configured 
> to function as additional IDE channels, requiring proprietary drivers. I'm 
> not sure how easy it is to find traditional controller cards that can be 
> seamlessly integrated as replacement primary IDE controllers.
> 
> I could be wrong though, I'd love to hear of a particular make/model that 
> does this.

The promise ultra133 tx2 pci card should be fine and is still available.
The kernel would just need the "boot offboard chipsets first" option
turned on to boot from drives on it, afaik.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From jon at thinkgeek.com  Thu May 11 16:17:44 2006
From: jon at thinkgeek.com (Jon Sime)
Date: Thu May 11 16:44:29 2006
Subject: [novalug] Subversion
In-Reply-To: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50735891-A0B6-4E64-BFF8-07F6988D8D47@thinkgeek.com>

We've been doing all of our development for the past two years using  
Subversion as our version control. We don't exactly have a huge  
development team -- it's just one other programmer and myself, our  
template designer (we run the code, docs, ancillary development tools  
and website templates through svn) and then the odd developer here  
and there from another division or a vendor we're working with -- so  
I can't really speak to how well it performs under very heavy loads,  
but it works great for us.

On earlier (pre-1.0) versions we ran into a couple issues where the  
bdb backend of Subversion would deadlock and we would have to bring  
down Apache (svn can be run as a daemon, or through WebDAV in Apache  
-- we do the latter) to run an svnadmin recover. Only once did we  
have to go to that morning's backup to get the bdb files back in  
working order. Nothing like that has happened in a very long time  
though. The newer versions of svn have been very stable for us. On  
the plus side, the one time we had to restore from the backup, we  
still had all our changes in the local working copies, and just had  
to check them back into the repository.

-Jon

--
"You will be treated to a mauling of the English language on a level  
that, before the internet, could only be achieved by throwing a book  
into a wood chipper."


On May 11, 2006, at 9:05 AM, John Holland wrote:

> Has anyone had any experiences with Subversion? I have it set up on  
> a test box and it seems to be pretty good, I haven't seen much  
> difference in using it than CVS for basic stuff. We would mainly be  
> using it via Subclipse for Eclipse Java work, unless there is a  
> better way. Their book on the web site lists the following as some  
> of its advantages:
>
> (http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn- 
> book.html#svn.intro.features)
> Directory versioning
> CVS only tracks the history of individual files, but Subversion  
> implements a "virtual" versioned filesystem that tracks changes to  
> whole directory trees over time. Files and directories are versioned.
>
> True version history
> Since CVS is limited to file versioning, operations such as copies  
> and renames?which might happen to files, but which are really  
> changes to the contents of some containing directory?aren't  
> supported in CVS. Additionally, in CVS you cannot replace a  
> versioned file with some new thing of the same name without the new  
> item inheriting the history of the old?perhaps completely unrelated? 
> file. With Subversion, you can add, delete, copy, and rename both  
> files and directories. And every newly added file begins with a  
> fresh, clean history all its own.
>
> Atomic commits
> A collection of modifications either goes into the repository  
> completely, or not at all. This allows developers to construct and  
> commit changes as logical chunks, and prevents problems that can  
> occur when only a portion of a set of changes is successfully sent  
> to the repository.
>
>
>
>
> I guess I'd be interested if anyone has any success of failure  
> stories with it, major projects using it, etc.
>
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page


From JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET  Thu May 11 18:19:29 2006
From: JECottrell3 at Comcast.NET (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd)
Date: Thu May 11 18:19:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
In-Reply-To: <20060505204431.78185.qmail@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060505204431.78185.qmail@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4463B871.5070707@Comcast.NET>

Exactly. That's one way. A similar way is to use the Perl LWP Library.

Google for: perl lwp

JIM

ben creitz wrote:
> Jim, if you know even a *little* Perl, then grab a
> copy of O'Reilly's "Spidering Hacks."  You will be
> able to create a Perl script that does what you want
> in an afternoon, using a module which I think is
> called "Mechanize."  I was able to do useful things
> immediately, and I really don't know much Perl at all.
> 
> Show your employer how much money you can save them 
> by being clever.  Good luck!
> 
> -Ben
> 
> --- jlg <goldsmithj@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Greetings:
>>   
>>  Please excuse to the off topic post. 
>>   
>>  I have a need to load about 4000 records into a
>>web app.  The app is a standard html form (using
>>POST data?).  We have offered to supply the data in
>>any sort of flat file (CSV, fixed format, xml, etc)
>>but the received agency will have nothing of that. 
>>We must use the web app.  We are considering hiring
>>a temp for a week or two (or more ;-) ) to manually
>>load this.
>>   
>>  The question:  do you know of a tool (open source
>>or free due to the shortness of time) that will
>>iterate over a data file and load it into this app. 
>>I'm pretty sure I could use Mercury's QTP (Quick
>>Test Pro), but, I no longer have access to this tool
>>set.  I'm an advanced journeyman perl programmer so
>>a script would work too.  I could write my own but I
>>don't have time for a big learning curve (which I
>>anticipate).
>>   
>>  Suggestions?
>>   
>>  Thanks for your help.
>>   
>>  ...jlg (jim)
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
From brandon20va at yahoo.com  Thu May 11 18:37:11 2006
From: brandon20va at yahoo.com (Brandon Saxe)
Date: Thu May 11 19:04:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: loading *many* records into a web form
In-Reply-To: <4463B871.5070707@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <20060511223712.24621.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>

spidering hacks is one of my favorite books

i prefer the WWW::Mechanize module myself

i wrote a command line client to a clumsy, slow, web-page based it help desk support system with it once. highly recommend.

James Ewing Cottrell 3rd <JECottrell3@comcast.net> wrote: Exactly. That's one way. A similar way is to use the Perl LWP Library.

Google for: perl lwp

JIM

ben creitz wrote:
> Jim, if you know even a *little* Perl, then grab a
> copy of O'Reilly's "Spidering Hacks."  You will be
> able to create a Perl script that does what you want
> in an afternoon, using a module which I think is
> called "Mechanize."  I was able to do useful things
> immediately, and I really don't know much Perl at all.
> 
> Show your employer how much money you can save them 
> by being clever.  Good luck!
> 
> -Ben
> 
> --- jlg  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Greetings:
>>   
>>  Please excuse to the off topic post. 
>>   
>>  I have a need to load about 4000 records into a
>>web app.  The app is a standard html form (using
>>POST data?).  We have offered to supply the data in
>>any sort of flat file (CSV, fixed format, xml, etc)
>>but the received agency will have nothing of that. 
>>We must use the web app.  We are considering hiring
>>a temp for a week or two (or more ;-) ) to manually
>>load this.
>>   
>>  The question:  do you know of a tool (open source
>>or free due to the shortness of time) that will
>>iterate over a data file and load it into this app. 
>>I'm pretty sure I could use Mercury's QTP (Quick
>>Test Pro), but, I no longer have access to this tool
>>set.  I'm an advanced journeyman perl programmer so
>>a script would work too.  I could write my own but I
>>don't have time for a big learning curve (which I
>>anticipate).
>>   
>>  Suggestions?
>>   
>>  Thanks for your help.
>>   
>>  ...jlg (jim)
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
_______________________________________________
novalug mailing list
novalug@tux.org
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page

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From scott.bearden at gmail.com  Thu May 11 18:35:39 2006
From: scott.bearden at gmail.com (scott bearden)
Date: Thu May 11 19:40:36 2006
Subject: [novalug] Nero
In-Reply-To: <1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
Message-ID: <b14c5d3b0605111535i31dbb397n9cb3647b988e1101@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with David.  I saw Nero for Linux a long time ago and I felt
at that time and still do that this is one area where open source
software has that particular market covered extremely well.  I have
been extremely happy with K3B for a long time.  I may have paid for
Nero if that was a gap that I needed filled, but clearly this isn't
the case.  I do think it is good to have commercial software vendors
interested in other platforms such as Linux.  The only thing is that I
have seen very little shrink wrapped boxes of software for Linux which
is the most likely place a company such as Nero would make a sale.
Something better would be for them to start bundling it with OEM
burners.  After happily using a product for a while I would entertain
the idea of paying for an upgrade.

Scott

On 5/11/06, David A. Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net> wrote:
> Nero for Linux has been out for at least a year now.  I actually rather
> enjoy using it.  It has worked well on my linux desktops.  The only
> issues I've had were occasions where it had issues recognizing external
> USB DVD writers.  Other than that it has worked well.
>
> If it wasn't for the ease at which I can create and burn CD's/DVD's from
> within nautilus now in FC5 I would probably use Nero.  If I were ever to
> use a standalone CD/DVD writing program, I would probably lean towards
> Nero.
>
> -David
>
>
> On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 23:14 -0400, Dan Arico wrote:
> > I just spotted something interesting. There's a Linux version of Nero
> > out.
> >
> > http://www.nero.com/en/NeroLINUX.html
> >
> > Dan Arico
> >
> --
> David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From RossPatterson at comcast.net  Thu May 11 23:56:56 2006
From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson)
Date: Fri May 12 00:26:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] Subversion
In-Reply-To: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060511225055.04294a70@Comcast.Net>

At 09:05 05/11/06, John Holland wrote:
>Has anyone had any experiences with Subversion?

Ayuh.  We use it at $WORK, having converted an 
acquired company's CVS repository to it (which was scarily easy!).

>I haven't seen much difference in using it than CVS for basic stuff.

For the basic stuff, it's not much different.

One basic thing you get is a genuine concept of a 
"change set", which many CVS-addons have 
synthesized over the years by matching up commits 
from the same user with the same comment within 
some time range.  A change set is important 
because it gives you a unique reference to a 
collection of changes.  Instead of saying "you 
need revision 1.13 of x.c and 1.25 of y.c and 1.1 
of z.h", you say "you need revision 2672".

Another basic thing you get is ???

>We would mainly be using it via Subclipse for 
>Eclipse Java work, unless there is a better way.

We've got some folks using Subclipse, and they 
like it a lot.  As an unreformed command line 
bigot, I find the "svn" and "vim" commands work 
very nicely too.  And since $WORK requires me to 
use a Windows laptop, I find that TortoiseSVN 
(http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org) is indispensable.

>Directory versioning
>CVS only tracks the history of individual files, 
>but Subversion implements a "virtual" versioned 
>filesystem that tracks changes to whole 
>directory trees over time. Files and directories are versioned.
True.  The key here is that directories are 
first-class objects, just like files.  That means 
they can have properties and can be manipulated.

>True version history
>Since CVS is limited to file versioning, 
>operations such as copies and renames?which 
>might happen to files, but which are really 
>changes to the contents of some containing 
>directory?aren't supported in CVS. Additionally, 
>in CVS you cannot replace a versioned file with 
>some new thing of the same name without the new 
>item inheriting the history of the old?perhaps 
>completely unrelated?file. With Subversion, you 
>can add, delete, copy, and rename both files and 
>directories. And every newly added file begins 
>with a fresh, clean history all its own.
True, mostly.  They almost get it right, 
certainly much better than CVS.  There are some 
weird corner-cases that fall out of implementing 
file- and directory-rename as "delete old and add 
new" under the covers.  But Subversion preserves 
the edit history, and you can "svn diff" from a 
pre-rename to a post-rename revision without any 
hiccup.  And they're right about a file being 
added with a clean history, so if you're undoing 
the deletion of a file, make sure you use "svn 
merge" to recover the old history, don't just "svn add" it.

>Atomic commits
>A collection of modifications either goes into 
>the repository completely, or not at all. This 
>allows developers to construct and commit 
>changes as logical chunks, and prevents problems 
>that can occur when only a portion of a set of 
>changes is successfully sent to the repository.

Not a problem in a smaller shop like ours, but 
certainly a big deal in one where the developers 
are constantly stepping on each other's 
toes.  More importantly (to me), atomic commit is 
part of what gives you change sets (see above).

Downsides:

* No Attic subdirectories.  When a file is "svn 
remove"d, it goes away without a trace.  It's 
still present in the older revisions, of course, 
but I'm amazed at how often I find myself wishing 
Subversion would leave me a hint that there was 
once a file called "banana.java".

* The configuration sucks.  Each client has their 
own configuration file (good) that contains 
important project-related information (tolerable) 
that can't be updated by the server (bad).  Most 
importantly, it has the "autoprops", which set 
the default properties for newly-created files 
based on filename patterns (e.g., *.java is 
MIME-type text/something, gets the $Id$ keyword 
et al. expanded, and uses the native-platform EOL 
code while *.exe is a binary executable and *.sh 
always gets an LF EOL, even on Windows).

* FSDB or FSFS?  We went with the Berkeley DB 
"file system" (FSDB), but only because we saw too 
many notes on the mailing lists about the file 
system "file system" (FSFS) being new-ish, and 
because we couldn't find anyone recommending 
FSFS.  We haven't had any problems, but some days 
I wake up and wish we'd gone with FSFS instead, 
just because it keeps your source code in files 
instead of a database.  At heart, I'm still a dinosaur :-)

* If you go with FSDB, make sure you clean up the 
database logs - you'll wonder where your disk 
space went if not, and the easiest way to upset 
Berkeley DB (besides its endian-sensitivity!) is to let its disk fill up.

* Lack of add-on tools.  CVS has lots because the 
RCS file format is so easy to work with and 
because it's older than dirt.  Subversion wants 
you to use its virtual filesystem API, and it's 
much newer.  TortoiseSvn has a graph function, 
but it's nowhere near as good as CVSGraph 
(http://www.akhphd.au.dk/~bertho/cvsgraph). 
There's nothing like logreport (can't find the URL right now) yet either.

* Client-side disk space.  Subversion stores two 
complete copies of every file, one where you can 
see it and another hidden beneath the .svn subdirectory.

* Tags and branches.  Subversion doesn't have 
them.  It has copies of the filesystem (very 
inexpensive copies, thank goodness).  A CVS 
branch is close enough to a Subversion copy, 
since the copy inherits the edit history and 
Subversion knows what revision it was copied 
from.  But a CVS tag is nothing like a Subversion 
copy.  We've had to go out of our way to make 
"tags" write-once (using the svnperms.py sample) 
- after all, a tag is a name for a revision 
level, right?  But since a copy is really a 
branch, you can't ask a question like "what are 
all the revisions between PRODUCT_RELEASE_3.0 and 
PRODUCT_RELEASE_4.0".  With some difficulty, you 
can find out what revision number a copy was 
copied from, which means you can then ask "what 
are all the revisions between number_x and 
number_y", but it's not as simple as "cvs log 
-rPRODUCT_RELEASE_3.0:PRODUCT_RELEASE_4.0".

Upsides:

* Subversion's reporting is better that 
CVS's.  "svn log" actually produces something you 
can work with, unlike "cvs log".  I still miss logreport, though.

* Add-on tools.  ViewCVS 
(http://viewcvs.sourceforge.net) now calls itself 
ViewVC (http://www.viewvc.org) since it supports 
Subversion too.  There are several Subversion 
task libraries for Ant that are approaching the 
capabilities of its CVS support.

* Offline use.  You can diff your working copy 
against the repository at 30,000 feet because of 
that second, hidden copy of every file.  And you 
can revert your changes just as easily.

* Versioned properties.  CVS doesn't have 
explicit properties, but it's got things like 
keyword expansion (-k, -kk, -kkv etc.) that 
Subversion stores as properties.  In Subversion, 
when you change a property, that's committed as 
part of a revision, and doesn't affect the previous versions of the file.

* No vendor branch.  If you've never had to use 
"cvs import" to create a vendor branch, count 
your lucky stars.  That abomination didn't make it into Subversion.

>I guess I'd be interested if anyone has any 
>success of failure stories with it, major projects using it, etc.

Go for it.  It beats the heck out of CVS, and Arch is too darn weird.

Ross 


From RossPatterson at comcast.net  Thu May 11 23:59:24 2006
From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson)
Date: Fri May 12 00:35:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] Subversion
In-Reply-To: <50735891-A0B6-4E64-BFF8-07F6988D8D47@thinkgeek.com>
References: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<50735891-A0B6-4E64-BFF8-07F6988D8D47@thinkgeek.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060511235712.02a7cc70@Comcast.Net>

At 16:17 05/11/06, Jon Sime wrote:
>On earlier (pre-1.0) versions we ran into a couple issues where the
>bdb backend of Subversion would deadlock and we would have to bring
>down Apache (svn can be run as a daemon, or through WebDAV in Apache
>-- we do the latter)

We use the daemon (svnserve), and it works very nicely.  It doesn't 
have some of the sophisticated capabilities of Apache, and it stores 
its passwords in cleartext, but it's small and clean and a human 
being can understand and trust it, none of which you can say about Apache :-(

Ross 

From joel at fouse.net  Fri May 12 12:28:45 2006
From: joel at fouse.net (Joel Fouse)
Date: Fri May 12 12:56:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] Subversion
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060511225055.04294a70@Comcast.Net>
References: <be4f57690605110605l7d254962kc871bfda19519d3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.0.20060511225055.04294a70@Comcast.Net>
Message-ID: <1147451325.12153.8.camel@localhost>

> * Add-on tools.  ViewCVS 
> (http://viewcvs.sourceforge.net) now calls itself 
> ViewVC (http://www.viewvc.org) since it supports 
> Subversion too.  There are several Subversion 
> task libraries for Ant that are approaching the 
> capabilities of its CVS support.

Just today someone pointed this out to me:

http://jtf.bountysource.com/svn/

...as another web-based subversion-viewing tool with a bit of an updated
appearance.  It doesn't look like it's quite "there" yet, but it looks
promising.

- Joel

From Beartooth at adelphia.net  Fri May 12 13:12:48 2006
From: Beartooth at adelphia.net (Bear Tooth)
Date: Fri May 12 13:42:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Can ubuntu use yum??
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121306360.10732@localhost.localdomain>


 	Fiddling with unfamiliar updaters (yumex, pup, pirut), I 
manage to bollix up my main FC5 machine's Gnome so bad it was pretty 
worthless, as I reported here.

 	A re-upgrade didn't get it back. So I backed stuff up and 
tried a clean install. Result, disaster. At this point, all I can 
get to is a grub prompt.

 	I've tried most of the commands you get with the tab or the 
help option, and they haven't done me any good.

 	So I put my trusty live CD from the Tech installfest in, and 
booted to ubuntu. I like the look & feel, but I doubt I'd like the 
updating. I see that it's meant to use synaptic; so I suppose there 
are no repos for it to use yum against, right? (And I don't suppose 
rpm -q yum against a live CD would tell me anything.)

 	I tried synaptic against FC 2 or 3 for a while, and found it 
not at all to my taste. I like pirut, oddly enough; but whether 
because of some difference or because my tastes have changed, I 
don't know.

 	Either way, I'd hate to lose the chance to do yum update and 
yum install from the command line when I happen to know what I want 
-- which is most of the time, believe it or not ...

 	I suppose I could install ubuntu over the wreckage, and then 
turn around and install FC5 back over that -- maybe. But the clean 
install failed with both sets of FC5 CDs that I have, even though 
both have succeeded on other machines; and I can't seem to get the 
main machine to boot from the external DVD drive I have ....

-- 
Beartooth Implacable, alive & well WEST of the Divide
(Well, OK, the lesser Divide -- but WEST of it!)
No man can  have enough bandwidth, books,
pockets, friends, guns, garlic, or mountains.
From larkoc at cola.iges.org  Fri May 12 14:03:13 2006
From: larkoc at cola.iges.org (Megan Larko)
Date: Fri May 12 14:29:44 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Can ubuntu use yum??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121306360.10732@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121306360.10732@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4464CDE1.5010402@cola.iges.org>

Bear Tooth wrote:

Hi Beartooth,

>
>     Fiddling with unfamiliar updaters (yumex, pup, pirut), I manage to 
> bollix up my main FC5 machine's Gnome so bad it was pretty worthless, 
> as I reported here.
>
>     A re-upgrade didn't get it back. So I backed stuff up and tried a 
> clean install. Result, disaster. At this point, all I can get to is a 
> grub prompt.

And what happens at the grub prompt?  Do you select a boot kernel?  Does 
it fail?  If yes, what does it say at the failure point?    I may have 
missed this in the earlier post.

>
>     I've tried most of the commands you get with the tab or the help 
> option, and they haven't done me any good.

Even using your last good grub known kernel and hitting "e" for edit, 
using the arrow key to go to the very end of the "vmlinuz" line and 
appending a space and a "1" to boot into init level 1 single user mode 
for recovery?

>
>     So I put my trusty live CD from the Tech installfest in, and 
> booted to ubuntu. I like the look & feel, but I doubt I'd like the 
> updating. I see that it's meant to use synaptic; so I suppose there 
> are no repos for it to use yum against, right? (And I don't suppose 
> rpm -q yum against a live CD would tell me anything.)

I'm using ubuntu at my office now (I changed from Fedora just to try 
something new).  I am using "apt-get update" to do the updates and the 
"apt-cache search xxxx" to find packages which I may wish to install.  
Apt is older, yes, but it is powerful.  My first try with synaptic did 
not go well for me but that attempt was years ago.   Software changes.  
But apt is a viable option on ubuntu.  Ubuntu is Debian-based.  The 
/etc/apt/sources.list  file defines the places on the internet where you 
wish to search for ubuntu debs to satisfy your query.   There are a few 
standard locations that usually suffice for most users.  You are not 
required to use synaptic.  I don't know about any other update/install 
mechanisms.  When I have one that works reliably I tend to stop looking.

>
>     I tried synaptic against FC 2 or 3 for a while, and found it not 
> at all to my taste. I like pirut, oddly enough; but whether because of 
> some difference or because my tastes have changed, I don't know.
>
>     Either way, I'd hate to lose the chance to do yum update and yum 
> install from the command line when I happen to know what I want -- 
> which is most of the time, believe it or not ...
>
>     I suppose I could install ubuntu over the wreckage, and then turn 
> around and install FC5 back over that -- maybe. But the clean install 
> failed with both sets of FC5 CDs that I have, even though both have 
> succeeded on other machines; and I can't seem to get the main machine 
> to boot from the external DVD drive I have ....

Why did the clean installs fail?  If you have a hardware issue (damaged 
or such similar) changing the distro will not likely permit your clean 
install to go any better.  Were the FC5 CDs damaged/scratched at some 
point after your successful installs?  Has the hw changed since your 
earlier successes?  If not, the CDs should work for a clean install 
again.  FC5 is not that old a distro that you are likely to have 
possessed the CDs longer than the media is good for.  To boot from your 
external DVD drive, does your motherboard BIOS allow that as an early 
boot option?  You could double-check your boot sequence to see that the 
DVD is near the beginning.

Just random ideas.   Happy weekend.
megan


-- 
Megan Larko, IT Systems Administrator
Center for Research on Environment & Water (CREW)
4041 Powder Mill Road., Suite 500
Calverton,  MD  20705-3106

From Beartooth at adelphia.net  Fri May 12 15:27:48 2006
From: Beartooth at adelphia.net (Bear Tooth)
Date: Fri May 12 15:25:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Can ubuntu use yum??
In-Reply-To: <4464CDE1.5010402@cola.iges.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121306360.10732@localhost.localdomain>
	<4464CDE1.5010402@cola.iges.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121503440.11056@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 12 May 2006, Megan Larko wrote:

> Bear Tooth wrote:
>
> Hi Beartooth,

 	Hi, Megan, long time no talk.
>>
>>     Fiddling with unfamiliar updaters (yumex, pup, pirut), I 
>> manage to bollix up my main FC5 machine's Gnome so bad it was 
>> pretty worthless, as I reported here.
>>
>>     A re-upgrade didn't get it back. So I backed stuff up and 
>> tried a clean install. Result, disaster. At this point, all I can 
>> get to is a grub prompt.
>
> And what happens at the grub prompt?  Do you select a boot kernel? 
> Does it fail?  If yes, what does it say at the failure point?  I 
> may have missed this in the earlier post.

 	errr.... Duhhh ... Dunno how. Simply giving commands it 
offered mostly got error messages -- which were cuneiform Hittite to 
me. I'll try what you suggest below.

>>     I've tried most of the commands you get with the tab or the 
>> help option, and they haven't done me any good.
>
> Even using your last good grub known kernel and hitting "e" for 
> edit, using the arrow key to go to the very end of the "vmlinuz" 
> line and appending a space and a "1" to boot into init level 1 
> single user mode for recovery?

 	Never even been in init level 1 -- unless that's what linux 
rescue is.

 	Before I got to the ubuntu at all, I had used linux rescue 
to look at/for various files. /home/btth was gone entirely; some at 
least of what had been reasonably extensive root files, such as 
/opt/.cxoffice et all, were also gone.

 	At the moment, I'm letting ubuntu's live CD install a couple 
of browsers, etc. (Couldn't find Pan anywhere ...) I just want to 
see what that does.

 	Then I'll reboot and see if I can find anything in the BIOS 
that looks like it might enable boot from external DVD drive.

 	Failing that, I'll try to print out what you suggested for 
the grub prompt; but I suspect, with /home/btth gone (unless its 
very existence is hidden from linux rescue somehow), it won't do 
much good even if it works.

>>     So I put my trusty live CD from the Tech installfest in, and 
>> booted to ubuntu. I like the look & feel, but I doubt I'd like 
>> the updating. I see that it's meant to use synaptic; so I suppose 
>> there are no repos for it to use yum against, right? (And I don't 
>> suppose rpm -q yum against a live CD would tell me anything.)

 	I've now discovered that it also has a Gnome gadget for 
installing new software; that's what I'm playing for browsers with.

> I'm using ubuntu at my office now (I changed from Fedora just to 
> try something new).  I am using "apt-get update" to do the updates 
> and the "apt-cache search xxxx" to find packages which I may wish 
> to install.  Apt is older, yes, but it is powerful.  My first try 
> with synaptic did not go well for me but that attempt was years 
> ago.  Software changes.

 	I suppose I can learn apt if I have to; I've certainly 
learned a lot of other stuff in my time. I might even like it 
better -- but I grudge the time. I should be spending my days in the 
woods in the spring!

> But apt is a viable option on ubuntu.  Ubuntu is Debian-based. 
> The /etc/apt/sources.list file defines the places on the internet 
> where you wish to search for ubuntu debs to satisfy your query. 
> There are a few standard locations that usually suffice for most 
> users.  You are not required to use synaptic.  I don't know about 
> any other update/install mechanisms.  When I have one that works 
> reliably I tend to stop looking.

 	I did find a slough of ubuntu lists on Gmane, one of them 
for users.
>>
>>     I tried synaptic against FC 2 or 3 for a while, and found it 
>> not at all to my taste. I like pirut, oddly enough; but whether 
>> because of some difference or because my tastes have changed, I 
>> don't know.

 	I also suspect it was my intrepid ignorance with pirut (more 
likely than one of the others) that cost me my Gnome; and what 
little I recall of synaptic seems similarly dangerous ...

>>     Either way, I'd hate to lose the chance to do yum update and 
>> yum install from the command line when I happen to know what I 
>> want -- which is most of the time, believe it or not ...
>>
>>     I suppose I could install ubuntu over the wreckage, and then 
>> turn around and install FC5 back over that -- maybe. But the 
>> clean install failed with both sets of FC5 CDs that I have, even 
>> though both have succeeded on other machines; and I can't seem to 
>> get the main machine to boot from the external DVD drive I have 
>> ....
>
> Why did the clean installs fail?  If you have a hardware issue 
> (damaged or such similar) changing the distro will not likely 
> permit your clean install to go any better.  Were the FC5 CDs 
> damaged/scratched at some point after your successful installs?

 	I did discover, with the F keys, that I could put 
"resolution=1280x1024" into the boot; that got me past starting the 
native X server. In fact, it got me clear into the middle of the 
second CD somewhere.

 	I've just taken a very close look at CD #2 in both sets. I 
see no faintest scratch, smudge, or other imperfection on the 
underside of the one that failed first. The second one had three 
very small faint fingerprint-smudges on or near the edge; I wiped 
them off with a bandana, gently.

> Has the hw changed since your earlier successes?

 	Not that I know of.

> If not, the CDs should work for a clean install again.  FC5 is not 
> that old a distro that you are likely to have possessed the CDs 
> longer than the media is good for.  To boot from your external DVD 
> drive, does your motherboard BIOS allow that as an early boot 
> option?  You could double-check your boot sequence to see that the 
> DVD is near the beginning.
>
> Just random ideas.   Happy weekend.
> megan

 	Likewise -- and many thanks! Stay tuned ...

-- 
Beartooth Implacable, alive & well WEST of the Divide
(Well, OK, the lesser Divide -- but WEST of it!)
No man can  have enough bandwidth, books,
pockets, friends, guns, garlic, or mountains.
From karhunhammas at LServ.Com  Sat May 13 07:43:26 2006
From: karhunhammas at LServ.Com (Beartooth)
Date: Sat May 13 07:43:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ : Can ubuntu use yum??
In-Reply-To: <4464CDE1.5010402@cola.iges.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605121306360.10732@localhost.localdomain>
	<4464CDE1.5010402@cola.iges.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605130437370.520@titan.lserv.com>

On Fri, 12 May 2006, Megan Larko wrote:

> Bear Tooth wrote:

>>     A re-upgrade didn't get it back. So I backed stuff up and tried a 
>> clean install. Result, disaster. At this point, all I can get to is a 
>> grub prompt.
>
> And what happens at the grub prompt?  Do you select a boot kernel? 
> Does it fail?  If yes, what does it say at the failure point?  I may 
> have missed this in the earlier post.
>>
>>     I've tried most of the commands you get with the tab or the help 
>> option, and they haven't done me any good.
>
> Even using your last good grub known kernel and hitting "e" for edit, 
> using the arrow key to go to the very end of the "vmlinuz" line and 
> appending a space and a "1" to boot into init level 1 single user mode 
> for recovery?

 	Night thought -- my bad : by "grub prompt" I didn't mean that nice 
whole screen you usually get, with pretty colors, and a list of choices, 
and a timeout, and a default to the latest kernel. I meant a plain black 
screen showing only the characters "grub>" in white, after which you can 
type commands and hope it will understand them.

 	I got well past the point of no return, and into the second CD 
well *after* the warnings about losing data and not being able to undo 
what comes next -- at least four times. And these were clean installs, or 
attempts at them. Most of my data and my tweaks seem no longer to exist; 
I'm in some doubt whether I have any operating system at this point.

 	But maybe I can tell the BIOS somehow to boot from the external 
DVD ...

 	Lish me wuck.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From jholmblad at aol.com  Sat May 13 09:20:40 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sat May 13 10:20:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] A nice Deskside Supercomputer for Linux
Message-ID: <4465DD28.8040404@aol.com>

All,

fyi. This week I learned that Tyan, a Chinese manufacturer of servers, 
and server boards has launched a deskside supercomputer (similar in 
concept to a blade server) for those who really need some serious 
computer power but without the need for exotic cooling or power. Here is 
the url to the www page for the product which should be available for 
shimpment in the next month or two:

       http://www.tyan.com/products/html/clusterservers.html


You will see that there is a plan to offer an AMD Opteron based version 
and an Intel Pentium D version. I heard reference to up to 320 gflops of 
computational power but I could not confirm that on the spec page for 
the product.
   
-- 

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

(O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)

 

primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com

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From clif at cflynt.com  Sat May 13 10:52:43 2006
From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt)
Date: Sat May 13 11:26:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] A nice Deskside Supercomputer for Linux
Message-ID: <20060513145243.GA29590@clif.cflynt.com>

Another option for folks doing big-cluster stuff is a cheap blade made
by Computer Gallery (http://www.cgallery.com).  These may not be
mentioned on the website, but if you send mail about them, Phil will
know what you're talking about.

Phil found a single-board system that runs cool enough to be put into a
simple rack.  The motherboards are running something close to 2Ghz
Semprons.  I believe the cost of these is in the $500 range.  More
expensive than a cheap desktop system, but much cheaper than a Dell
or Sparc blade.

I've got a picture of one of the early prototypes at
http://www.dedasys.com/~clif/atx1.jpg

We've put 150 of these in a refridgerator sized box (with a bunch of
fans) and run them with no overheating problems, and done sets of 30 in
open wooden racks we made in a basement shop with similarly happy
results.

They are happy running LTSP linux.  See
http://www.dedasys.com/~clif/ltsp-gui/ for some discussion about
running LTSP as a headless compute engine with vnc and WINE.

Clif

-- 
.... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
.............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............


From jholmblad at aol.com  Sat May 13 21:47:25 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sat May 13 21:47:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] Some Good News Re: Linux 802.11 Support
Message-ID: <44668C2D.2030405@aol.com>

All,

fyi, here is the url to an article at linuxdevices.com concerning some 
recent good news re: improved support for 802.11 in LInux:

    http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS1977847793.html
  
-- 

Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

(O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)

 

primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com

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From geekfunk at gmail.com  Sat May 13 18:43:44 2006
From: geekfunk at gmail.com (Galen Brooks)
Date: Sun May 14 02:11:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] A nice Deskside Supercomputer for Linux
In-Reply-To: <4465DD28.8040404@aol.com>
References: <4465DD28.8040404@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ba5b44c10605131543m204c60dka54dda539331b713@mail.gmail.com>

I used to sell "Personal Supercomputers" by Orion Multisystems. Orion's
super box contained 96 Transmeta Efficion processors, and was in a case that
was small enough to fit under a regular desk. It ran Red Hat with the
Cluster extensions.

Because of the low power consumption of the Efficion processors, the noise
level was low, and heat was not a factor. In addition, you could take this
96 node system out of the box that it was shipped it, and plug it into a
regular office socket. All you had to do was add a monitor, keyboard, and
mouse.

It was a favorite of individual researchers like folks doing work in the
Human Gemone, which involves searching through billions of bits of data in
the DNA molecule. Or, for analyzing intelligence data or signal processing,
or performing computational fluid dynamics.

Unfortunately, Orion shuttered its doors in February when its investors
failed to come through with the second line of financing.

however, my company is still in this line of products, as we believe that it
is a very important configuration.

Incidentally, try putting couple of dozen Intel Xeons or Opterons inside a
small space. It is not too hard to see the real issues there concerning
heat, power comsumption, and noise.






On 5/13/06, John B. Holmblad <jholmblad@aol.com> wrote:
>
>  All,
>
> fyi. This week I learned that Tyan, a Chinese manufacturer of servers, and
> server boards has launched a deskside supercomputer (similar in concept to a
> blade server) for those who really need some serious computer power but
> without the need for exotic cooling or power. Here is the url to the www
> page for the product which should be available for shimpment in the next
> month or two:
>
>        http://www.tyan.com/products/html/clusterservers.html
>
>
> You will see that there is a plan to offer an AMD Opteron based version
> and an Intel Pentium D version. I heard reference to up to 320 gflops of
> computational power but I could not confirm that on the spec page for the
> product.
>
> --
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> John Holmblad
>
>
>
> Televerage International
>
> GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
>
>
>
> (H) 703 620 0672
>
> (M) 703 407 2278
>
> (F)  703 620 5388
>
> (O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)
>
>
>
> primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com
>
> backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net
>
>
>
> www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad
>
> text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>
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From karhunhammas at LServ.Com  Sun May 14 10:51:38 2006
From: karhunhammas at LServ.Com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May 14 10:51:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ scp (long,
 sorry!)(was VDQ can ubuntu ... (was VVDQ drawer ...))
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>


 	As some here will recall, perhaps with a measure of tedium, I 
never did manage to restore the Gnome I had bollixed on my main machine; 
so I tried doing a clean install of FC5 to replace the bollixed upgrade, 
and couldn't; the machine complained of both my sets of CDs, which had 
succeeded with other machines -- and with that one, first on the upgrade 
from FC4 to FC5, and then with the "upgrade" from FC5 to FC5, which ran to 
completion even though it didn't restore my Gnome.

 	So I installed Ubuntu, twoke it, and set about eliminating the 
most superfluous cruft of all, which it had not let me decide not to 
install.

 	(Curmudgeon that I am, I always totally eliminate all games, all 
chat, and all of OpenOffice from any new install, even before I update 
it.)

 	Ubuntu wouldn't let me eliminate the first game, claiming other 
things used it. Then it kept threatening to remove the ubunt-desktop along 
with whatever else I wanted gone.

 	Now, I don't particularly want a brown desktop in the first place; 
but I had no idea whether it would automatically put another desktop in 
place, no how to do it manually if it didn't.

 	So I tried another clean install of FC5, this time over the ubuntu 
instead of over a defective install of itself. It still refused both sets 
of CDs, and still didn't see the external DVD.

 	So I got into the BIOS -- after having first checked ubuntu's 
version of a hardware browser, which gives a whale of a lot more detail 
than any RH or FC one I've ever seen, and even dug out the Fine Manual for 
the DVD drive (which, of course, was no help). Ubuntu had told me some 
part of the machine did too know the DVD drive was there.

 	I pounded on that damn BIOS for half an hour at least -- I found 
the DVD drive pretty soon, but I tried everything I could think of, and a 
bunch of things by sheer dumb keypounding, till I eventually hit on how 
it wanted me to tell it the drive was to boot from.

 	THEN I stuck an FC5 DVD in the drive; installed it; twoke it; 
got it busy updating, and went to bed. This morning I just did the next to 
last touch; and I have one last VVDQ (at least one, of course!) about the 
last touch.

 	Previously, using scp, I had backed up /home/btth on the main 
machine (currently 192.168.0.100), as btth, to /home/btth/SblzBkup, on 
another machine (currently 192.168.0.103); and /root on 100 to 
/root/SblzRootBkup, as root, also on 103.

 	So now I did mkdir SblzBkup as btth in /home/btth on the 
reinstalled 100, then

scp -r 192.168.0.103:/home/btth/SblzBkup 192.168.0.100:/home/btth/SblzBkup

as btth, from 103. I keep having to fuss with .ssh/known_hosts, but then 
it starts, and transfers a list of files a screen or three long, only to 
hit the likes of this (on 103!) :

Read from remote host 192.168.0.100: Connection reset by peer
lost connection
Connection to 192.168.0.103 closed.
[btth@localhost ~]$

 	WHAT the blinkin blue blazes am I lousing up NOW??


-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Sun May 14 12:08:06 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Sun May 14 13:08:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ scp (long, sorry!)(was VDQ can ubuntu ... (was	VVDQ
	drawer ...))
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1147622886.22185.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 07:51 -0700, Beartooth wrote: 
>  	As some here will recall, perhaps with a measure of tedium, I 
> never did manage to restore the Gnome I had bollixed on my main machine; 
> so I tried doing a clean install of FC5 to replace the bollixed upgrade, 
> and couldn't; the machine complained of both my sets of CDs, which had 
> succeeded with other machines -- and with that one, first on the upgrade 
> from FC4 to FC5, and then with the "upgrade" from FC5 to FC5, which ran to 
> completion even though it didn't restore my Gnome.
> 
>  	So I installed Ubuntu, twoke it, and set about eliminating the 
> most superfluous cruft of all, which it had not let me decide not to 
> install.

There is an Expert mode that will let you make more choices.

>  	(Curmudgeon that I am, I always totally eliminate all games, all 
> chat, and all of OpenOffice from any new install, even before I update 
> it.)

Personal taste, I like the later versions of Open Office.

>  	Ubuntu wouldn't let me eliminate the first game, claiming other 
> things used it. Then it kept threatening to remove the ubunt-desktop along 
> with whatever else I wanted gone.

Go ahead and uninstall the ubunt-desktop package. It's a virtual that is
used by the Ubuntu builders to automaticly include everything they felt
a DEFAULT Desktop should have.

The following is from it's description:
-- The Ubuntu desktop system
-- This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu desktop
-- system
--
-- It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system
-- packages are not desired.  However, it is recommended that you keep
-- it installed, because it is used to carry out certain upgrade
-- transitions (such as adding new packages to the system).



>  	Now, I don't particularly want a brown desktop in the first place; 
> but I had no idea whether it would automatically put another desktop in 
> place, no how to do it manually if it didn't.

Look under the System->Preferences-> Theme | Desktop Background
Plus you could also use Synaptic to search for other backgrounds

>  	So I tried another clean install of FC5, this time over the ubuntu 
> instead of over a defective install of itself. It still refused both sets 
> of CDs, and still didn't see the external DVD.

Sounds like a hardware problem to me.

>  	So I got into the BIOS -- after having first checked ubuntu's 
> version of a hardware browser, which gives a whale of a lot more detail 
> than any RH or FC one I've ever seen, and even dug out the Fine Manual for 
> the DVD drive (which, of course, was no help). Ubuntu had told me some 
> part of the machine did too know the DVD drive was there.

So you like HAL (hardware abstraction layer) it's part of
FreeDesktop.org, only area I've found it lacking in is Processor
idenfication.

>  	I pounded on that damn BIOS for half an hour at least -- I found 
> the DVD drive pretty soon, but I tried everything I could think of, and a 
> bunch of things by sheer dumb keypounding, till I eventually hit on how 
> it wanted me to tell it the drive was to boot from.
> 
>  	THEN I stuck an FC5 DVD in the drive; installed it; twoke it; 
> got it busy updating, and went to bed. This morning I just did the next to 
> last touch; and I have one last VVDQ (at least one, of course!) about the 
> last touch.
> 
>  	Previously, using scp, I had backed up /home/btth on the main 
> machine (currently 192.168.0.100), as btth, to /home/btth/SblzBkup, on 
> another machine (currently 192.168.0.103); and /root on 100 to 
> /root/SblzRootBkup, as root, also on 103.
> 
>  	So now I did mkdir SblzBkup as btth in /home/btth on the 
> reinstalled 100, then
> 
> scp -r 192.168.0.103:/home/btth/SblzBkup 192.168.0.100:/home/btth/SblzBkup
> 
> as btth, from 103. I keep having to fuss with .ssh/known_hosts, but then 
> it starts, and transfers a list of files a screen or three long, only to 
> hit the likes of this (on 103!) :
> 
> Read from remote host 192.168.0.100: Connection reset by peer
> lost connection
> Connection to 192.168.0.103 closed.
> [btth@localhost ~]$
> 
>  	WHAT the blinkin blue blazes am I lousing up NOW??
> 

Why are you trying copy files from one REMOTE host to another REMOTE host?
That's the meaning of what you typed.

On the machine that you want the files copied to do:
 {note I'm assuming that 192.168.0.103 is the remote in this case}

$ scp -rp 192.168.0.103:/home/btth/SblzBkup /home/btth/SblzBkup

You should be able to do it as either user "btth" or user "root".
The two(2) IPs might of been what was confusing scp.


--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
You recoil from the crude; you tend naturally toward the exquisite.
From karhunhammas at LServ.Com  Sun May 14 15:27:00 2006
From: karhunhammas at LServ.Com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May 14 15:27:04 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ scp (long, sorry!)
In-Reply-To: <1147622886.22185.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>
	<1147622886.22185.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141009510.4288@titan.lserv.com>

On Sun, 14 May 2006, donjr wrote:

[....]
>>  	Now, I don't particularly want a brown desktop in the first place; 
>> but I had no idea whether it would automatically put another desktop in 
>> place, no how to do it manually if it didn't.
>
> Look under the System->Preferences-> Theme | Desktop Background Plus you 
> could also use Synaptic to search for other backgrounds

 	OK, thanks!

>>  	So I tried another clean install of FC5, this time over the ubuntu 
>> instead of over a defective install of itself. It still refused both 
>> sets of CDs, and still didn't see the external DVD.
>
> Sounds like a hardware problem to me.

 	Hmmmm ... I wonder where. The CD drive that didn't like FC5 is the 
same one I used first with the live CD and then with the install CD for 
ubuntu. It did fine with both. And I don't *see* anything untoward on the 
business side of the CDs ...

>>  	So I got into the BIOS -- after having first checked ubuntu's 
>> version of a hardware browser, which gives a whale of a lot more detail 
>> than any RH or FC one I've ever seen, and even dug out the Fine Manual 
>> for the DVD drive (which, of course, was no help). Ubuntu had told me 
>> some part of the machine did too know the DVD drive was there.
>
> So you like HAL (hardware abstraction layer) it's part of 
> FreeDesktop.org, only area I've found it lacking in is Processor 
> idenfication.

 	You mean *that's* what HAL is?? It's in FC -- been in for a 
version or two -- and unless I mis-recall, runs a daemon. So how do I 
access all that good info under FC5??

>> [...] I keep having to fuss with .ssh/known_hosts [and haven't the 
>> faintest idea why, btw], but then it starts, and transfers a list of 
>> files a screen or three long, only to hit the likes of this (on 103!) :
>>
>> Read from remote host 192.168.0.100: Connection reset by peer
>> lost connection
>> Connection to 192.168.0.103 closed.
>> [btth@localhost ~]$
>>
>>  	WHAT the blinkin blue blazes am I lousing up NOW??

> Why are you trying copy files from one REMOTE host to another REMOTE 
> host? That's the meaning of what you typed.

 	Not to question that, but it usually works; so I've mostly done 
that way, even though it demands both passwords.

> On the machine that you want the files copied to do: {note I'm assuming 
> that 192.168.0.103 is the remote in this case}
>
> $ scp -rp 192.168.0.103:/home/btth/SblzBkup /home/btth/SblzBkup
>
> You should be able to do it as either user "btth" or user "root". The 
> two(2) IPs might have been what was confusing scp.

 	Well -- I gave the command your way, and it's still running, after 
already having done far longer than before. The file is up to 4.8 GB on 
100, and the one on 103 that it's coming from is about 6.9 GB. And 
everything else on that machine is at a cold molasses crawl. Keep all your 
fingers crossed!

 	So : Next Very Dumb Question: WHEN I once have SblzBkup/* -- a 
whole humongous hierarchy of all btth's erstwhile user files on 100, after 
all -- copied from 103 into /home/btth/SblzBkup on 100, THEN what command 
do I use to move the whole shebang back out onto /home/btth, so that the 
same things will be back into their same old places? Where and as what 
loginID do I give the command? Be root anywhere and say "mv 
/home/btth/SblzBkup /home/btth" -- and then have to straighten out seven 
gigs of ownership?? Be btth at /home and command "mv /home/btth/SblzBkup 
btth"??

 	I read info mv (having been referred there from man mv), and saw 
that it can now move whole hierarchies -- but I couldn't seem to grasp 
whether it recurses automatically, or needs some switch(es), or ...?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From karhunhammas at LServ.Com  Sun May 14 16:05:14 2006
From: karhunhammas at LServ.Com (Beartooth)
Date: Sun May 14 16:05:23 2006
Subject: Nautilus (was Re: [novalug] Nero)
In-Reply-To: <1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141301130.14365@titan.lserv.com>

On Thu, 11 May 2006, David A. Cafaro wrote:
>
> If it wasn't for the ease at which I can create and burn CD's/DVD's from 
> within nautilus now in FC5 I would probably use Nero.  If I were ever to 
> use a standalone CD/DVD writing program, I would probably lean towards 
> Nero.

 	Nautilus?? That's news to me; I've been trying with K3B (under 
Gnome) -- and not doing any too well at it. How do you invoke it, and 
where can I learn about using it? I remember nautilus doing it once upon a 
time, long long ago ....

 	I got lots of old pine messages that'd be better off archived onto 
CDs, even if those don't live forever, and not taking taking up space on 
Lserv.com.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Sun May 14 15:54:11 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Sun May 14 16:20:56 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ scp (long, sorry!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141009510.4288@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>
	<1147622886.22185.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141009510.4288@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <200605141554.12086.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Sun May 14 2006 3:27 pm, Beartooth wrote:

> > Sounds like a hardware problem to me.
>
>  	Hmmmm ... I wonder where. The CD drive that didn't like FC5 is the
> same one I used first with the live CD and then with the install CD
> for ubuntu. It did fine with both. And I don't *see* anything untoward
> on the business side of the CDs ...

Most of the times I've had weird install problems it's been the CD drive. 
It doesn't necessarily have to be bad. There just has to be enough of a 
difference in alignment between this drive and the one the CD/DVD was 
written on. It's usefull to have a commercially produced CD to check it 
against. Otherwise, testing the drives by writing and reading on 
different drives gets time consuming.

I had two drives that could read a commercial disk just fine. And they 
could read what they wrote just fine. When I swapped disks between the 
two, I started getting errors. I had to get a third disk into the act 
before I could determine which was off.

What makes it really irritating is the install scripts don't give error 
messages in most cases. I've had installations go without any apparent 
problems except that the installed system didn't work right. After I 
determined that the problem was in the CD/DVD drive or the drive I was 
installing to, replacement of the offending drive solved all the 
problems.

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Sun May 14 16:37:19 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Sun May 14 16:37:24 2006
Subject: [novalug] VVDQ scp (long, sorry!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141009510.4288@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605140611160.17111@titan.lserv.com>
	<1147622886.22185.30.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141009510.4288@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1147639039.22185.79.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 12:27 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2006, donjr wrote:
> 
> [....]
> >>  	Now, I don't particularly want a brown desktop in the first place; 
> >> but I had no idea whether it would automatically put another desktop in 
> >> place, no how to do it manually if it didn't.
> >
> > Look under the System->Preferences-> Theme | Desktop Background Plus you 
> > could also use Synaptic to search for other backgrounds
> 
>  	OK, thanks!

Your welcome.  Took me a while to find at first also.

> >>  	So I tried another clean install of FC5, this time over the ubuntu 
> >> instead of over a defective install of itself. It still refused both 
> >> sets of CDs, and still didn't see the external DVD.
> >
> > Sounds like a hardware problem to me.
> 
>  	Hmmmm ... I wonder where. The CD drive that didn't like FC5 is the 
> same one I used first with the live CD and then with the install CD for 
> ubuntu. It did fine with both. And I don't *see* anything untoward on the 
> business side of the CDs ...
> 

It will be interesting to know what the answer is when you find it.

> >>  	So I got into the BIOS -- after having first checked ubuntu's 
> >> version of a hardware browser, which gives a whale of a lot more detail 
> >> than any RH or FC one I've ever seen, and even dug out the Fine Manual 
> >> for the DVD drive (which, of course, was no help). Ubuntu had told me 
> >> some part of the machine did too know the DVD drive was there.
> >
> > So you like HAL (hardware abstraction layer) it's part of 
> > FreeDesktop.org, only area I've found it lacking in is Processor 
> > idenfication.
> 
>  	You mean *that's* what HAL is?? It's in FC -- been in for a 
> version or two -- and unless I mis-recall, runs a daemon. So how do I 
> access all that good info under FC5??

Look for a package called "hal-device-manager" as that's the package's
name that supplies the "Hal Device Manager" (ie the user display) under
Ubuntu and/or Debian.

> >> [...] I keep having to fuss with .ssh/known_hosts [and haven't the 
> >> faintest idea why, btw], but then it starts, and transfers a list of 
> >> files a screen or three long, only to hit the likes of this (on 103!) :
> >>
> >> Read from remote host 192.168.0.100: Connection reset by peer
> >> lost connection
> >> Connection to 192.168.0.103 closed.
> >> [btth@localhost ~]$
> >>
> >>  	WHAT the blinkin blue blazes am I lousing up NOW??
> 
> > Why are you trying copy files from one REMOTE host to another REMOTE 
> > host? That's the meaning of what you typed.
> 
>  	Not to question that, but it usually works; so I've mostly done 
> that way, even though it demands both passwords.

Note it can and will only work if both hosts are running "sshd" with
'sftp' service enable and will accept connections from each other and
the host where you sent the command from.
  Default for most distributions now is not to install the ssh daemon
and those that do default-ly configure sshd not to accept root logins as
it's a possible security hole.

Ubuntu is now by default configured to have NO open ports at all, even
local ports. IOW the ssh daemon isn't installed by default.

> > On the machine that you want the files copied to do: {note I'm assuming 
> > that 192.168.0.103 is the remote in this case}
> >
> > $ scp -rp 192.168.0.103:/home/btth/SblzBkup /home/btth/SblzBkup
> >
> > You should be able to do it as either user "btth" or user "root". The 
> > two(2) IPs might have been what was confusing scp.
> 
>  	Well -- I gave the command your way, and it's still running, after 
> already having done far longer than before. The file is up to 4.8 GB on 
> 100, and the one on 103 that it's coming from is about 6.9 GB. And 
> everything else on that machine is at a cold molasses crawl. Keep all your 
> fingers crossed!

Only 11.5 GB, why shoot that shouldn't take more then a few days through
a 300baud modem. <GRIN>

>  	So : Next Very Dumb Question: WHEN I once have SblzBkup/* -- a 
> whole humongous hierarchy of all btth's erstwhile user files on 100, after 
> all -- copied from 103 into /home/btth/SblzBkup on 100, THEN what command 
> do I use to move the whole shebang back out onto /home/btth, so that the 
> same things will be back into their same old places? Where and as what 
> loginID do I give the command? Be root anywhere and say "mv 
> /home/btth/SblzBkup /home/btth" -- and then have to straighten out seven 
> gigs of ownership?? Be btth at /home and command "mv /home/btth/SblzBkup 
> btth"??
> 
>  	I read info mv (having been referred there from man mv), and saw 
> that it can now move whole hierarchies -- but I couldn't seem to grasp 
> whether it recurses automatically, or needs some switch(es), or ...?

If you have the following tree:

/
  tmp
  home
       btth
            .gnome
            .gnome2
            junk
            SblzBkup
                .gnome
                .gnome2
                Document
                Maildir
                    novalug

and you do:
  mv /home/btth/SblzBkup  /tmp/btth

You would wind up with:
/
  tmp
    btth
       .gnome
       .gnome2
       Document
       Maildir
           novalug
  btth
     .gnome
     .gnome2
     junk

If you then did:
  mv /tmp/btth /home/btth

You would get most likely what you are after.
You could do this as either user 'btth' from a text mode login only or
as user 'root' with 'btth' NOT logged in at all.

Does the above answer your question about mv and trees?

One possible BIG problem with the above though!!!!
 If the reason that you couldn't start Gnome as user btth before was
because of a BAD configuration information in ~/.gconf, ~/.gnome,
~/.gnome2,  or a few other possible areas you suddenly will not be able
to start Gnome again.


--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
Q: What do you call a blind pre-historic animal?
A: Diyathinkhesaurus. 

Q: What do you call a blind pre-historic animal with a dog? 
A: Diyathinkhesaurus Rex.
From jholmblad at aol.com  Sun May 14 16:04:44 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sun May 14 17:04:48 2006
Subject: [novalug] A nice Deskside Supercomputer for Linux
In-Reply-To: <ba5b44c10605131543m204c60dka54dda539331b713@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4465DD28.8040404@aol.com>
	<ba5b44c10605131543m204c60dka54dda539331b713@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44678D5C.8090504@aol.com>

Galen,

I think that is why Tyan limited the AMD based configuration to 4 cards 
with 2 dual core capable sockets/card. In other words the Tyan engineers 
considered the heat/power/noise considerations in their design of the 
Typhoon.


Best Regards,

 

John Holmblad

 

Televerage International

GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM

 

(H) 703 620 0672

(M) 703 407 2278

(F)  703 620 5388

(O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)

 

primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com

backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net

 

www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad

text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com



Galen Brooks wrote:
> I used to sell "Personal Supercomputers" by Orion 
> Multisystems. Orion's super box contained 96 Transmeta Efficion 
> processors, and was in a case that was small enough to fit under 
> a regular desk. It ran Red Hat with the Cluster extensions.
>  
> Because of the low power consumption of the Efficion processors, the 
> noise level was low, and heat was not a factor. In addition, you could 
> take this 96 node system out of the box that it was shipped it, and 
> plug it into a regular office socket. All you had to do was add a 
> monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
>  
> It was a favorite of individual researchers like folks doing work in 
> the Human Gemone, which involves searching through billions of bits of 
> data in the DNA molecule. Or, for analyzing intelligence data or 
> signal processing, or performing computational fluid dynamics.
>  
> Unfortunately, Orion shuttered its doors in February when its 
> investors failed to come through with the second line of financing.
>  
> however, my company is still in this line of products, as we believe 
> that it is a very important configuration.
>  
> Incidentally, try putting couple of dozen Intel Xeons or Opterons 
> inside a small space. It is not too hard to see the real issues there 
> concerning heat, power comsumption, and noise.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
>  
> On 5/13/06, *John B. Holmblad* <jholmblad@aol.com 
> <mailto:jholmblad@aol.com>> wrote:
>
>     All,
>
>     fyi. This week I learned that Tyan, a Chinese manufacturer of
>     servers, and server boards has launched a deskside supercomputer
>     (similar in concept to a blade server) for those who really need
>     some serious computer power but without the need for exotic
>     cooling or power. Here is the url to the www page for the product
>     which should be available for shimpment in the next month or two:
>
>            http://www.tyan.com/products/html/clusterservers.html
>
>
>     You will see that there is a plan to offer an AMD Opteron based
>     version and an Intel Pentium D version. I heard reference to up to
>     320 gflops of computational power but I could not confirm that on
>     the spec page for the product.
>        
>     -- 
>
>     Best Regards,
>
>      
>
>     John Holmblad
>
>      
>
>     Televerage International
>
>     GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM
>
>      
>
>     (H) 703 620 0672
>
>     (M) 703 407 2278
>
>     (F)  703 620 5388
>
>     (O) 410 849 2376 (has voicemail to email)
>
>      
>
>     primary email address:  jholmblad@aol.com <mailto:jholmblad@aol.com>
>
>     backup email address:  jholmblad@verizon.net
>     <mailto:jholmblad@verizon.net>
>
>      
>
>     www page for texting:   www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad
>     <http://www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad>
>
>     text email address:        jholmblad@vtext.com
>     <mailto:jholmblad@vtext.com>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     novalug mailing list
>     novalug@tux.org <mailto:novalug@tux.org>
>     http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>     for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>
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From dac at cafaro.net  Sun May 14 23:25:41 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Sun May 14 23:54:23 2006
Subject: Nautilus (was Re: [novalug] Nero)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141301130.14365@titan.lserv.com>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141301130.14365@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1147663541.4223.3.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>

Well there isn't much to do to invoke it.  By default, in FC4/5, when
you stick a blank CD-R into your writer drive, nautilus will pop up a
blank window that represents the CD's soon to be contents.  Then you
just drag and drop and arrange everything how you would like it within
this window.  When your ready you then click on File->Write to Disc.  

To burn an iso, you just right click on the iso image and selected Write
to Disc.

That covers the majority of my uses.  I'm not sure on what
nautilus/gnome packages specifically add this functionality, though I
could probably look it up.

-David

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 13:05 -0700, Beartooth wrote: 
> 
>  	Nautilus?? That's news to me; I've been trying with K3B (under 
> Gnome) -- and not doing any too well at it. How do you invoke it, and 
> where can I learn about using it? I remember nautilus doing it once upon a 
> time, long long ago ....
> 
>  	I got lots of old pine messages that'd be better off archived onto 
> CDs, even if those don't live forever, and not taking taking up space on 
> Lserv.com.

-- 
David A. Cafaro
dac(at)cafaro.net
Tech to Admin: "I thought I did plug that in..."

From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May 15 06:45:51 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May 15 07:45:58 2006
Subject: Nautilus (was Re: [novalug] Nero)
In-Reply-To: <1147663541.4223.3.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>
References: <200605102314.48510.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<1147358843.31025.10.camel@falstaff>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605141301130.14365@titan.lserv.com>
	<1147663541.4223.3.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>
Message-ID: <1147689951.22185.88.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 23:25 -0400, David A. Cafaro wrote:
> Well there isn't much to do to invoke it.  By default, in FC4/5, when
> you stick a blank CD-R into your writer drive, nautilus will pop up a
> blank window that represents the CD's soon to be contents.  Then you
> just drag and drop and arrange everything how you would like it within
> this window.  When your ready you then click on File->Write to Disc.  
> 
> To burn an iso, you just right click on the iso image and selected Write
> to Disc.
> 
> That covers the majority of my uses.  I'm not sure on what
> nautilus/gnome packages specifically add this functionality, though I
> could probably look it up.
> 
> -David
> 

The user interface package is called: nautilus-cd-burn
There are a number of packages that it depends on, most of which should
be included in a default install of nautilus.

If you wish to start it from an X-terminal it's:
  nautilus-cd-burner


--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
It were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of
opinion that makes horse-races.
  -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Mon May 15 13:48:50 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Mon May 15 14:09:21 2006
Subject: [novalug] debconf6 live streams
Message-ID: <20060515174850.GC3390@rfa.org>

Hello,

If anyone is interested in the Debian Conference, there is a live video
stream coming out of Mexico. 

http://video.debconf.org:8000/tower.ogg

The uplink at the conference site is not quite stable, so you may loose
the connection occassionally. But, it has been getting better as the day
goes on. The debconf schedule is here:
http://debconf6.debconf.org/about/schedule/

times are utc-5.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From daniel.junkmail at gmail.com  Mon May 15 18:21:27 2006
From: daniel.junkmail at gmail.com (Daniel Corbe)
Date: Mon May 15 22:03:16 2006
Subject: [novalug] Looking for some paid help which may lead to a permanent
	position
Message-ID: <cceb89df0605151521x34129fe2r5c2396975aeca357@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Novalug Community,

I am looking for someone to learn or who already knows the GNU oSIP
library (http://www.gnu.org/software/osip/)

I need someone to write an example application, explanations in the
form of code comments AND supporting documentation, and you must be
willing to take a little bit of time to explain it to me and answer
questions.

Licensing for the resulting code base must be turned over to me and
will eventually be incorporated into an open source project. Continued
and ongoing interest in this project is a major plus. I will consider
performance-based bonuses.

Further, upon sucessful completion and handover of all code and
documentation, I may have a permanent staff position in my company's
engineering group for a software engineer.

My goal is to get my company to sponsor this project and keep it in
the open source community.

Please contact me for further details.

786-206-5496
dcorbe@gmail.com

From rnspayne at the-paynes.com  Mon May 15 23:44:23 2006
From: rnspayne at the-paynes.com (Rob Payne)
Date: Mon May 15 23:52:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] Dependancy
In-Reply-To: <200605111251.59131.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <200605111251.59131.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <20060516034423.GA3723@osprey.the-paynes.com>

On Thu, May 11, 2006 at 12:51:58PM -0400, Dan Arico wrote:
> Something I've been wondering about:
> 
> I've run into dependancy problems a number of times when I've tried to 
> add things that weren't in my SUSE distribution. It usually comes down 
> to a situation where the package I'm trying to add depends on a 
> different version of a package that twenty other packages depend on.
> 
> 1. Is there a way to have both versions present and have each package use 
> the version it needs?
> 
> 2. Is it possible to isolate the new package into a standalone system 
> where it has duplicate copies of the packages it depend upon. Sure, it 
> would use a lot of disk space, but that's getting cheaper all the time.

Dan,

I didn't see any responses to this on the list, so I thought I'd take
a shot at stirring up the responses I know are lurking.  There are
generally ways, at least on the other rpm-based distros, of installing
packages that meet both sets of dependencies without conflicts.  For
instance, on an FC5 machine, I have:

openssl-0.9.8a-5.2
openssl097a-0.9.7a-4.2.1

The first satisfies the dependencies of the newer packages, and the
second satisfies the dependencies of the older packages that haven't
been re-linked against the newer libraries.

compat packages are used in a similar fashion:

The provides for compat-libstdc++-296-2.96-135 include:

libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2
libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3

The provides for libstdc++-4.1.0-3 include:

libstdc++34
libstdc++.so.6


I don't know how SUSE does it, but I would be willing to bet they do
it in a similar fashion.  

Those things are, generally, done to support dynamically-linked
binaries.  There are other ways of fixing the issue.  It is possible,
for instance, to recompile (or upgrade) all of the packages that
require the old libraries to use new libraries as long as the
functionality didn't change in such a way as to make the new libraries
incompatible with the older code (very rare.)  It is also possible to
statically link the things that would require an upgrade to the
libraries that are already installed, thereby cutting down on the
dependencies.  But, for a number of reasons, you should not look at
that as a general solution.  Once a binary is statically linked, it
becomes harder for patches to "take" on the system.  (A bug in an old
version of glibc will exist as long as a statically-linked binary
includes the old buggy code.)

I hope that helps answer your question, or at least inspires someone
with a better answer to come forward.

				 -rob
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From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Tue May 16 09:33:41 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Tue May 16 10:00:28 2006
Subject: [novalug] Dependancy
In-Reply-To: <20060516034423.GA3723@osprey.the-paynes.com>
References: <200605111251.59131.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<20060516034423.GA3723@osprey.the-paynes.com>
Message-ID: <200605160933.41504.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>


> > 1. Is there a way to have both versions present and have each
> > package use the version it needs?
> >
> > 2. Is it possible to isolate the new package into a standalone
> > system where it has duplicate copies of the packages it depend upon.
> > Sure, it would use a lot of disk space, but that's getting cheaper
> > all the time.
>
> Dan,
>
> I didn't see any responses to this on the list, so I thought I'd take
> a shot at stirring up the responses I know are lurking.  There are
> generally ways, at least on the other rpm-based distros, of installing
> packages that meet both sets of dependencies without conflicts.  For
> instance, on an FC5 machine, I have:

Do you do this through the rpm system, itself, or by compiling from 
source?

Dan

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From bidwell at dead-city.org  Tue May 16 18:35:49 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Tue May 16 19:36:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] dvdbackup problems
Message-ID: <446A53C5.3080609@dead-city.org>

Anyone else having problems with dvdbackup?
I'm using Debian's unstable version on two
different machines and on both machines after
I use mkisofs -dvd-video, I end up with an
iso that is about 600 M instead of 7G.

Matt
From bidwell at dead-city.org  Tue May 16 23:58:04 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Tue May 16 23:58:12 2006
Subject: [novalug] dvdbackup problems
In-Reply-To: <446A53C5.3080609@dead-city.org>
References: <446A53C5.3080609@dead-city.org>
Message-ID: <446A9F4C.8020201@dead-city.org>

Matt Bidwell wrote:
> Anyone else having problems with dvdbackup?
> I'm using Debian's unstable version on two
> different machines and on both machines after
> I use mkisofs -dvd-video, I end up with an
> iso that is about 600 M instead of 7G.
> 
> Matt

Well, I backported to the stable version of
dvdbackup and libdvdread3 and hat seems to
do the trick.

Matt
From john.johnknight at gmail.com  Wed May 17 11:11:40 2006
From: john.johnknight at gmail.com (John Knight)
Date: Wed May 17 14:02:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] Training for startupers who adjust fast
Message-ID: <9fdb5c4c0605170811h56a3abai11e987173f97fce3@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Luggers, hackers,  and friends,

Okay, it's late notice.  If you are free this weekend (May 19-21), this is a
golden opportunity to scope out the group dynamics of organizations. This
applies to startups as well as client companies and lugs. The advantage of
being late is the availability of a
large fee reduction.

First visit the site to understand what we are talking about
http://www.wbcgrouprelations.org/Diversity2006/index.htm
I would describe it as a psychological "Outward Bound". It emphasizes
understanding one's place in groups with wide range of diversity across
race, gender, sexual preference, and work role.

The conference has capacity for forty members and as of tonight has
unfilled seats. This problem obtains from marketing problems not from low
quality of professional staff or product.  I have talked with the conference
director and have permission to make you an offer you can't refuse. (Think
last minute empty  seats on a trans-Atlantic flight.)

Visit the conference site, read the brochure to discover exactly what a
group relations conference is, and register.
http://www.wbcgrouprelations.org/Diversity2006/index.htm
I will write and email a recommendation
for you. Call me at 202 237 1969 to arrange the letter and the fee.


You can still register despite the deadline on the page.  But do it on
Tuesday. I cannot guarantee
acceptance after Wednesday.

The whole process will take 15 minutes less research time.

If you are serious about working on diversity and understanding how groups
work, this conference is based on
group work with a fifty year tradition. This particular conference at Howard
has been
an annual event for fifteen years. The staff is world class with three A.K.
Rice Institute fellows having  combined experience of more than one hundred
years.


Call me (202) 237 1969, if you have questions.

John Knight

PS.
 I am reaching out to geeks who are planning startups.
PPS
I attended a group relations conference twenty years ago and it changed my
life. This is world changing work.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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From nick at hackermonkey.com  Wed May 17 14:53:49 2006
From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger)
Date: Wed May 17 15:30:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] Old hard drives to non-prof?
Message-ID: <446B713D.1000700@hackermonkey.com>

Last year I sent some old hard drives to a PP in Waco TX I think it was.
Unfortunately I didn't save the info. And I just now have another box
(maybe 25?) older/smaller IDE drives from desktop pulls/upgrades. So Im
going to send them to some worthy org that needs them. First dibs to the
person I delt with before but after that, who wants 'em?  I still have
to powerup/clean em so thats going to be a bit of time.

-Nick
From Roger at just.net  Wed May 17 16:10:21 2006
From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus)
Date: Wed May 17 16:33:21 2006
Subject: [novalug] Beta! Beta! Beware Latest Ubuntu (Breezy) Upgrade
Message-ID: <446B832D.1090802@just.net>

Did an automatic update today - 200+ packages.

Desktop icons disappeared. Applications disappeared, e.g., Mypassword 
Safe (which is also no longer in the list of applications to install).

/Roger
From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Wed May 17 17:03:37 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Wed May 17 17:21:41 2006
Subject: [novalug] Reminder -- stream links for DCLUG meeting tonight
Message-ID: <20060517210335.GB3692@rfa.org>

There will be live streams available for tonight's DCLUG meeting. The
meeting is scheduled to start around 19:00. Check the DCLUG site for
meeting topic and speaker info: http://dclug.tux.org

URLs for the live video stream of the talk:

Video (video and audio):
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg

Audio only (camera audio with the video stripped out):
http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg
http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg

I'll be in #dclug on irc.freenode.net for live chat feedback. I'll try
to have the stream up around 18:00 if you want to tune in early to sort
out any client issues.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From keith.casey at gmail.com  Wed May 17 15:14:38 2006
From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Wed May 17 21:04:13 2006
Subject: [novalug] [OT] DC PHP Group / Conference
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0605171214v156a9556s90567280c54fb19f@mail.gmail.com>

Good day all,

This is just a quick pair of announcements about the DC PHP Group:

First, thanks to our generous overlords at Tux.org (thanks pete &
greg!), the DC PHP Group's mailing lists have moved away from Yahoo.
It was useful while it lasted, but due to the obvious overlap in
topics, we thought being more closely associated with the local LUGs
was much more important.  Therefore, if you wish to join to keep up
with the latest events, happenings, or just join in the conversation,
please feel free to join:
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dcphp-dev - Main discussion list
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dcphp-announce - Announcements Only


Second, we're hosting the first annual DC PHP Conference this fall -
http://dcphpconference.com/ .  Our goal is to showcase successful PHP
projects and techniques within the Federal government space with a
special focus on Security, Scalability, and Interoperability.  The
Call for Presenters is open and we have an open bias towards Federal
PHP projects in production.  It is hosted at the L'Enfant Plaza hotel
immediately above the L'Enfant Metro in downtown DC.  If you have any
questions, don't hesitate to drop me a note.

Thanks,
Keith

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com

2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
- http://dcphpconference.com/

From rzewnickie at rfa.org  Wed May 17 21:31:12 2006
From: rzewnickie at rfa.org (Eric Dantan Rzewnicki)
Date: Wed May 17 21:31:26 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: Reminder -- stream links for DCLUG meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <20060517210335.GB3692@rfa.org>
References: <20060517210335.GB3692@rfa.org>
Message-ID: <20060518013110.GA4380@rfa.org>

On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:03:37PM -0400, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:
> There will be live streams available for tonight's DCLUG meeting. The
> meeting is scheduled to start around 19:00. Check the DCLUG site for
> meeting topic and speaker info: http://dclug.tux.org
> 
> URLs for the live video stream of the talk:
> 
> Video (video and audio):
> http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg
> http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.theora.ogg
> 
> Audio only (camera audio with the video stripped out):
> http://streamer0.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg
> http://streamer2.rfa.org:8000/dclug.audio.ogg
> 
> I'll be in #dclug on irc.freenode.net for live chat feedback. I'll try
> to have the stream up around 18:00 if you want to tune in early to sort
> out any client issues.

The files of tonight's talk are available for download now.
http://techweb.rfa.org/images/dclug/

Thanks to a suggestion from Serge, I also uploaded a vorbis only version
for audio players. We'll see if we can arrange a podcast-ish solution
for the future.

-- 
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
Apprentice Linux Audio Developer and Mostly Harmless Sysadmin
(text below this line mandated by management)
Technical Operations Division  |  Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW  |  Washington, DC 20036  |  202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any 
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly 
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network@rfa.org.
From john_christopher1997 at yahoo.com  Thu May 18 23:20:28 2006
From: john_christopher1997 at yahoo.com (John Christopher)
Date: Thu May 18 23:47:18 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
Message-ID: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
and write data to the drive.

How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
the commands I would need to type.

Thanks for your help.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Fri May 19 00:02:43 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Fri May 19 00:29:31 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200605190002.44069.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Thu May 18 2006 11:20 pm, John Christopher wrote:
> I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
> The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
> to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
> be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
> and write data to the drive.
>
> How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
> should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
> the commands I would need to type.
>
> Thanks for your help.

I think this answers your question.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=205101

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From e.goforth at computer.org  Fri May 19 01:05:26 2006
From: e.goforth at computer.org (Ed Goforth)
Date: Fri May 19 01:26:12 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <446D5216.8040506@computer.org>



John Christopher wrote:
> I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
> The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
> to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
> be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
> and write data to the drive.
> 

Do you want all of those to be able to read it when directly connected
(ie. not as a network drive)?  If that's the case, then you're pretty
much stuck with VFAT.  There are some software packages
(http://www.fs-driver.org/ for Windows,
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsx/ for Mac OS-X) that let you
access ext2/ext3 disks, but you wouldn't be able to plug the drive into
any random box (say a friend's, or at work).

> How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)

Also, if you're not going to use it with Win98, you probably want FAT32.
 FAT16 has a 2 GB max file size, with a 4 GB max partition size (Win2000
or later, 2 GB on WinNT or older).  FAT32 has a 4 GB max file size, with
a 8 TB max partition size (under WinXP, smaller under older Windows).
My preference is to make FAT partitions from within Windows, but there
are tools (mkfs.vfat, mkdosfs) available under Linux.

> should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
> the commands I would need to type.
> 
> Thanks for your help.

HTH,
Ed
From e.goforth at computer.org  Fri May 19 01:12:45 2006
From: e.goforth at computer.org (Ed Goforth)
Date: Fri May 19 01:34:22 2006
Subject: [novalug] Gentoo on Power Mac
Message-ID: <446D53CD.8080604@computer.org>

Hello all.  I'm buying a G5 Power Mac, and was wondering if anyone has
any experience installing Gentoo on such a beast.  All of our PowerMacs
and Xserves that we have at work are running some YellowDog variant, and
we're using RHEL on our JS20 blades.

I'm not looking for detailed instructions; the Gentoo Handbook
(http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2006.0/handbook-ppc64.xml) seems
to cover it pretty well, and I've done several Gentoo installs at home
(x86 and x86-64).  I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any potential
gotchas that I want to be on the lookout for.  I'm especially interested
in hearing about dual-boot experiences.  For WinXP-Linux dual-boot, I
usually keep the XP boot disc standalone, and have a separate Linux boot
HD with a GRUB boot floppy.

Thanks a bunch,
Ed
From pereira at speakeasy.net  Fri May 19 10:26:51 2006
From: pereira at speakeasy.net (Nino Pereira)
Date: Fri May 19 10:55:01 2006
Subject: [novalug] new user/password on RH9 system
Message-ID: <1148048811.1589.448.camel@lithium>

Hi,

I can't seem to find out how to make a new user,
or how to activate an old user, on a box that runs
under RH9. 

Adding a new user should be simple: do

[root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
Segmentation fault

but this gives a segmentation fault. Googling for this error
suggests that the shadow password file may be at fault, and that
this can be fixed by executing pwconv and grpconv. But, this gives

[root@ibm pereira]# pwconv
[root@ibm pereira]# grpconv
[root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
Segmentation fault

so no improvement. 

Since this account is for a future user, srp, who already has an
account whose password I had forgotten, I tried to reactivate the
old account, by doing:

# passwd suzanne
Changing password for user suzanne.
New password:
Retype new password:
passwd: all authentication tokens updated successfully.

Now, there's an account, and I can get to it when I come
from the machine itself (at 66.92.144.133), but not from the outside: 

pereira@lithium:~$ ssh 66.92.144.133 -l suzanne
suzanne@66.92.144.133's password:
Permission denied, please try again.

Any idea how to fix this? I want this user to be able to use ssh-like
programs such as winscp, for which external access is essential.

Thank you for your help.

Nino




From bdalzell at qis.net  Fri May 19 10:43:14 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Fri May 19 11:01:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191041220.16546-100000@eclipse>

On Thu, 18 May 2006, John Christopher wrote:

JC >I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
JC >The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
JC >to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
JC >be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
JC >and write data to the drive.
JC >
JC >How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
JC >should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
JC >the commands I would need to type.

there is a great graphical drive formatting tool called gparted. try it
out. I have used it on a 250 gig drive in an external USB case and used it
to format several different types of partitions since I have a multiboot
system. the only thing i have had problems with is being able to have the
partitions recognized on a MAC.


JC >
JC >Thanks for your help.
JC >
JC >
JC >__________________________________________________
JC >Do You Yahoo!?
JC >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
JC >http://mail.yahoo.com 
JC >_______________________________________________
JC >novalug mailing list
JC >novalug@tux.org
JC >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
JC >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
JC >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From bdalzell at qis.net  Fri May 19 10:51:04 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Fri May 19 11:18:29 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive - MAC problems
In-Reply-To: <446D5216.8040506@computer.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191043450.16546-100000@eclipse>

On Fri, 19 May 2006, Ed Goforth wrote:



EG >
EG >
EG >John Christopher wrote:
EG >> I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
EG >> The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
EG >> to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
EG >> be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
EG >> and write data to the drive.
EG >> 
EG >
EG >Do you want all of those to be able to read it when directly connected
EG >(ie. not as a network drive)?  If that's the case, then you're pretty
EG >much stuck with VFAT.  There are some software packages
EG >(http://www.fs-driver.org/ for Windows,
EG >http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsx/ for Mac OS-X) that let you
EG >access ext2/ext3 disks, but you wouldn't be able to plug the drive into
EG >any random box (say a friend's, or at work).
EG >
EG >> How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
EG >
EG >Also, if you're not going to use it with Win98, you probably want FAT32.
EG > FAT16 has a 2 GB max file size, with a 4 GB max partition size (Win2000
EG >or later, 2 GB on WinNT or older).  FAT32 has a 4 GB max file size, with
EG >a 8 TB max partition size (under WinXP, smaller under older Windows).
EG >My preference is to make FAT partitions from within Windows, but there
EG >are tools (mkfs.vfat, mkdosfs) available under Linux.

We have a couple of MACS and my dual boot Linux/Amiga machine. 

So i took the 250 gig usb drive and made 2 fat 95 partitions a ext2
partition and an Amiga partition on it.

Gparted was my main tool on the linux side which I used to create all the
partitions and to format the ext3 partition and the fat95 partitions.

I then used the Amiga partitioning tool HD toolbox to format the Amiga
partitions.

Ubuntu has no problem recognizing all the partitions and reading and
writng to them. It calls the amiga partitions affs, incidently.

the Amiga OS sees the ext2 partitions and treats them as read only, it
sees the fat95 paritions and can read and write to them.

The OSX MAC does not see the paritions on this drive properly. It only
recognizes the first partition. When I experimented and let the MAC
partition the drive then Ubuntu via gparted reported that the partitions
were not set up correctly.

Anyone with any experience in this.


EG >
EG >> should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
EG >> the commands I would need to type.
EG >> 
EG >> Thanks for your help.
EG >
EG >HTH,
EG >Ed
EG >_______________________________________________
EG >novalug mailing list
EG >novalug@tux.org
EG >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
EG >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
EG >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From oscar at oscarm.org  Fri May 19 11:14:30 2006
From: oscar at oscarm.org (Oscar M.)
Date: Fri May 19 11:44:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191041220.16546-100000@eclipse>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191041220.16546-100000@eclipse>
Message-ID: <446DE0D6.9090203@oscarm.org>

If you do have access to a Mac, the Disk Utility is a nice interface for 
partitioning and formatting a drive.

I'll back up everyone who says if you need to read and write it on 
Windows, you're stuck with VFAT.

Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2006, John Christopher wrote:
> 
> JC >I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
> JC >The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
> JC >to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
> JC >be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
> JC >and write data to the drive.
> JC >
> JC >How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
> JC >should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
> JC >the commands I would need to type.
> 
> there is a great graphical drive formatting tool called gparted. try it
> out. I have used it on a 250 gig drive in an external USB case and used it
> to format several different types of partitions since I have a multiboot
> system. the only thing i have had problems with is being able to have the
> partitions recognized on a MAC.
> 
> 
> JC >
> JC >Thanks for your help.
> JC >
> JC >
> JC >__________________________________________________
> JC >Do You Yahoo!?
> JC >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> JC >http://mail.yahoo.com 
> JC >_______________________________________________
> JC >novalug mailing list
> JC >novalug@tux.org
> JC >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> JC >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> JC >
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                        Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
> mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
>  
> freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
> breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
>  
> Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
> HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
From dac at cafaro.net  Fri May 19 11:56:26 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Fri May 19 12:14:31 2006
Subject: [novalug] new user/password on RH9 system
In-Reply-To: <1148048811.1589.448.camel@lithium>
References: <1148048811.1589.448.camel@lithium>
Message-ID: <1148054186.18098.6.camel@falstaff>

Not sure what the deal is with the segmentation fault, might try an
strace on it to get more information on what is killing it off.
Probably just not handling the fact the account already exists
correctly.  It should return something saying the user already exists
not a segfault.

As for the SSH, did you double check to make sure you don't have an
AllowUsers rule set that might be blocking users not listed?

Also I take it you have tried both SSH to the local machine from the
local machine plus you have tested that "su - srp" works as well.

And another troubleshoot check, you can ssh to the machine using another
account right (I'm assuming you have tested this, but figured I'd list
it just for the record).

-David


On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 10:26 -0400, Nino Pereira wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I can't seem to find out how to make a new user,
> or how to activate an old user, on a box that runs
> under RH9. 
> 
> Adding a new user should be simple: do
> 
> [root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
> Segmentation fault
> 
> but this gives a segmentation fault. Googling for this error
> suggests that the shadow password file may be at fault, and that
> this can be fixed by executing pwconv and grpconv. But, this gives
> 
> [root@ibm pereira]# pwconv
> [root@ibm pereira]# grpconv
> [root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
> Segmentation fault
> 
> so no improvement. 
> 
> Since this account is for a future user, srp, who already has an
> account whose password I had forgotten, I tried to reactivate the
> old account, by doing:
> 
> # passwd suzanne
> Changing password for user suzanne.
> New password:
> Retype new password:
> passwd: all authentication tokens updated successfully.
> 
> Now, there's an account, and I can get to it when I come
> from the machine itself (at 66.92.144.133), but not from the outside: 
> 
> pereira@lithium:~$ ssh 66.92.144.133 -l suzanne
> suzanne@66.92.144.133's password:
> Permission denied, please try again.
> 
> Any idea how to fix this? I want this user to be able to use ssh-like
> programs such as winscp, for which external access is essential.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> 
> Nino
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
-- 
David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>

From mark at winksmith.com  Fri May 19 13:20:20 2006
From: mark at winksmith.com (Mark Smith)
Date: Fri May 19 13:40:59 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive - MAC problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191043450.16546-100000@eclipse>
References: <446D5216.8040506@computer.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191043450.16546-100000@eclipse>
Message-ID: <20060519172020.GA23514@winksmith.com>

it may or may not fit into your plans, but you also need to consider
the size of the files.  if a file is greater than 4GB (think video)
it can't be stored on a msdos filesystem.

-- 
Mark Smith
mark@winksmith.com
mark at tux dot org
nova-instructor at tux dot org
From mezzenger at gmail.com  Fri May 19 14:33:21 2006
From: mezzenger at gmail.com (Alvin Smith)
Date: Fri May 19 15:30:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] gtk-gnutella on SUSE 10
Message-ID: <974b10640605191133r27e00909r6d5d6eca02446091@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have gtk-gnutella working on SUSE 10?

--
Alvin
From bdalzell at qis.net  Fri May 19 15:53:17 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Fri May 19 15:53:21 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <446DE0D6.9090203@oscarm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605191550080.5132-100000@eclipse>

On Fri, 19 May 2006, Oscar M. wrote:

OM >If you do have access to a Mac, the Disk Utility is a nice interface for 
OM >partitioning and formatting a drive.
 I tried the MAC disk utility. It did a fine job formatting and
partitioning the drive but linux cannot use the partitions generated by
Disk Utility if there is more than one of them (at least this is what
happened last fall). I went back and forth quite a few times between the
MAC formatting and partitioning the drive and gparted formatting the
partitioning the drive and could not get both systems to agree that the
drive had been properly formatted by the other OS. If it had not been such
a large harddrive I would have left it as one big parition but I wanted to
have an Amiga partition on it as well as a linux partition.




OM >
OM >I'll back up everyone who says if you need to read and write it on 
OM >Windows, you're stuck with VFAT.
OM >
OM >Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
OM >> On Thu, 18 May 2006, John Christopher wrote:
OM >> 
OM >> JC >I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
OM >> JC >The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
OM >> JC >to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
OM >> JC >be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
OM >> JC >and write data to the drive.
OM >> JC >
OM >> JC >How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
OM >> JC >should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
OM >> JC >the commands I would need to type.
OM >> 
OM >> there is a great graphical drive formatting tool called gparted. try it
OM >> out. I have used it on a 250 gig drive in an external USB case and used it
OM >> to format several different types of partitions since I have a multiboot
OM >> system. the only thing i have had problems with is being able to have the
OM >> partitions recognized on a MAC.
OM >> 
OM >> 
OM >> JC >
OM >> JC >Thanks for your help.
OM >> JC >
OM >> JC >
OM >> JC >__________________________________________________
OM >> JC >Do You Yahoo!?
OM >> JC >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
OM >> JC >http://mail.yahoo.com 
OM >> JC >_______________________________________________
OM >> JC >novalug mailing list
OM >> JC >novalug@tux.org
OM >> JC >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
OM >> JC >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
OM >> JC >
OM >> 
OM >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OM >>                        Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
OM >> mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
OM >>  
OM >> freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
OM >> breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
OM >>  
OM >> Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
OM >> HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com
OM >> 
OM >> 
OM >> _______________________________________________
OM >> novalug mailing list
OM >> novalug@tux.org
OM >> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
OM >> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
OM >_______________________________________________
OM >novalug mailing list
OM >novalug@tux.org
OM >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
OM >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
OM >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From greg at pryzby.org  Fri May 19 17:48:28 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Fri May 19 18:06:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] June meeting-- request
Message-ID: <20060519214828.GF2255@pryzby.org>

TOpic idea and speaker? I don't think I have one (been traveling for 2
weeks and again next and very confused). 

I don't know if Rich can finish the DVR stuff....

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From JECottrell3 at comcast.net  Sat May 20 00:58:04 2006
From: JECottrell3 at comcast.net (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd)
Date: Sat May 20 01:18:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] new user/password on RH9 system
In-Reply-To: <1148048811.1589.448.camel@lithium>
References: <1148048811.1589.448.camel@lithium>
Message-ID: <446EA1DC.5030904@Comcast.NET>

I am tempted to say:

Geez, just VI the password and shadow files, and make the user's home 
directory by hand. Nobody really uses those new-fangled commands, as 
they vary from system to system.

But in the spirit of Actually Posting Something Useful:

[0] Red Hat 9? Dude! Time to upgrade!
[1] Perhaps the packages are corrupted. Try "rpm -Va" to validate all RPMs,
[2] Try removing and readding the useradd package
[3] Look for errors in the existing password and shadow files
[4] Take my advice in the flame above

JIM

Nino Pereira wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I can't seem to find out how to make a new user,
>or how to activate an old user, on a box that runs
>under RH9. 
>
>Adding a new user should be simple: do
>
>[root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
>Segmentation fault
>
>but this gives a segmentation fault. Googling for this error
>suggests that the shadow password file may be at fault, and that
>this can be fixed by executing pwconv and grpconv. But, this gives
>
>[root@ibm pereira]# pwconv
>[root@ibm pereira]# grpconv
>[root@ibm pereira]# useradd srp
>Segmentation fault
>
>so no improvement. 
>
>Since this account is for a future user, srp, who already has an
>account whose password I had forgotten, I tried to reactivate the
>old account, by doing:
>
># passwd suzanne
>Changing password for user suzanne.
>New password:
>Retype new password:
>passwd: all authentication tokens updated successfully.
>
>Now, there's an account, and I can get to it when I come
>from the machine itself (at 66.92.144.133), but not from the outside: 
>
>pereira@lithium:~$ ssh 66.92.144.133 -l suzanne
>suzanne@66.92.144.133's password:
>Permission denied, please try again.
>
>Any idea how to fix this? I want this user to be able to use ssh-like
>programs such as winscp, for which external access is essential.
>
>Thank you for your help.
>
>Nino
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>novalug mailing list
>novalug@tux.org
>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>  
>

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Sat May 20 09:04:58 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Sat May 20 09:25:38 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>


 	I'm in process of trying to set up this email account as a master 
that will be able to access my others. With a lot of help, I've got the 
master configured, or so I help and believe. But for some dumb reason, I 
can't seem to get the necessary aliases to take on my own machine.

 	Iiuc, they have to be entries in FC5 /home/btth/.bash_profile 
on each FC5 home machine like :

alias pine='/usr/bin/pine -p 
"{titan.lserv.com/novalidate-cert/user=karhunhammas}r$

(all on one line).

 	I have opened .bash_profile repeatedly with both nano -w and pico 
-w (the only editors I know) and inserted those lines. (Plural -- there 
are a couple for my adelphia account, in case my connection to Lserv.com 
should fail -- or its machine be down; both happen at times.)

 	But when I then command alias, they don't show, even they do under 
pico, nano, or "cat .bash_profile"!

 	What the blazes am I doing wrong, and how should I be doing it?

 	What I have is this :

[btth@localhost ~]$ cat .bash_profile
# .bash_profile

# Get the aliases and functions
if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
         . ~/.bashrc
fi

# User specific environment and startup programs

PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin

export PATH
unset USERNAME
alias Adelpine='/usr/bin/pine'
alias delpine='/usr/bin/pine'
alias pine='/usr/bin/pine -p 
"{titan.lserv.com/novalidate-cert/user=karhunhammas}remote_pinerc"'
[btth@localhost ~]$ alias
alias l.='ls -d .* --color=tty'
alias ll='ls -l --color=tty'
alias ls='ls --color=tty'
alias vi='vim'
alias which='alias | /usr/bin/which --tty-only --read-alias --show-dot 
--show-tilde'
[btth@localhost ~]$

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Sat May 20 10:51:22 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Sat May 20 11:51:36 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 06:04 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
>  	I'm in process of trying to set up this email account as a master 
> that will be able to access my others. With a lot of help, I've got the 
> master configured, or so I help and believe. But for some dumb reason, I 
> can't seem to get the necessary aliases to take on my own machine.
> 

Have you logged out and back in since editing the file?

Or have you done the following at a prompt:
   source ~/.bash_profile

>  	What I have is this :
> 
> [btth@localhost ~]$ cat .bash_profile
> # .bash_profile
> 
> # Get the aliases and functions
> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
>          . ~/.bashrc
> fi
> 
> # User specific environment and startup programs
> 
> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin
> 
> export PATH
> unset USERNAME

The above few lines should say in ~/.bash_profile

But with such simple aliases as these that follow, I'd normally put them
in my ~/.bashrc file instead, that way they work in sub-shells also, as
~/.bash_profile only get read/processed by a Login Shell when it first
opens.

. DonJr

> alias Adelpine='/usr/bin/pine'
> alias delpine='/usr/bin/pine'
> alias pine='/usr/bin/pine -p 
> "{titan.lserv.com/novalidate-cert/user=karhunhammas}remote_pinerc"'

> [btth@localhost ~]$ alias
> alias l.='ls -d .* --color=tty'
> alias ll='ls -l --color=tty'
> alias ls='ls --color=tty'
> alias vi='vim'
> alias which='alias | /usr/bin/which --tty-only --read-alias --show-dot 
> --show-tilde'
> [btth@localhost ~]$
> 
From bogiebogart at earthlink.net  Sat May 20 12:18:33 2006
From: bogiebogart at earthlink.net (Tim Bogart)
Date: Sat May 20 16:19:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] Voice print and recognition (Open Souce, of course)
Message-ID: <200605201217.52825.bogiebogart@earthlink.net>

All,

I've been searching the web for open source voice print technology, but to no 
avail.  I've found a bunch of stuff on voice recognition, having to do with 
translating the spoken word into the written word, and a lot along the same 
lines with regard to VOIP, but no actual voice print software that deals 
primarily with voice recognition from a security standpoint.

Has anybody seen anything?

TIA,

Tim (yes, somehow I'm still around) Bogart
From nwconfig2005 at yahoo.com  Sun May 21 00:06:53 2006
From: nwconfig2005 at yahoo.com (Richard Strong)
Date: Sun May 21 01:07:04 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: novalug Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <200605191600.k4JG05EC015848@gwyn.tux.org>
Message-ID: <20060521040653.81232.qmail@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

You forgot to mention which version of windows.
Mine is NTSF. I have 2 multi-boot PC's. they boot Windows 2000 server, WindowsXP, Windows2003 server, and SuSE linux.

I found bout Grub and Windows boot loader worked. 
Actually I havent seen anything but NTFS for several years, but the old stuff does exist.

- Richard@nwconfig.com

novalug-request@tux.org wrote:----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Christopher 
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
To: novalug@tux.org
Message-ID: <20060519032028.87102.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have a hard drive mounted in an external hard drive enclosure.
The enclosure has a USB 2.0 interface.  I plan to use the drive
to back up files and to store iTunes files.  I would like to
be able to have Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows XP be able to read
and write data to the drive.

How should I format the disk?  What disk format (ext2, vfat, etc)
should I use?  Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially
the commands I would need to type.

Thanks for your help.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


------------------------------


		
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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From jhart at kevla.org  Sun May 21 15:36:07 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Sun May 21 16:03:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
Message-ID: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

I am using postfix, IMAP, and squirrelmail for email access.

I now have quite the collection of emails within my spam/virus folder.  The spam messages seem to
be stored in a .gz format.

What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to ensure they are, in fact, spam
and not a legitimate message?

Thanks in advance,

Jay Hart

From mstone at mathom.us  Sun May 21 18:20:00 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Sun May 21 19:20:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <20060521221958.GJ17069@mathom.us>

On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 03:36:07PM -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
>What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to 
>ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?

There is none. If there was a reliable way to do that, there wouldn't be 
any false positives in the first place.

Mike Stone
From jhart at kevla.org  Sun May 21 20:01:45 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Sun May 21 20:02:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <20060521221958.GJ17069@mathom.us>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<20060521221958.GJ17069@mathom.us>
Message-ID: <2818.192.168.1.14.1148256105.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> On Sun, May 21, 2006 at 03:36:07PM -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
>>What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to
>>ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?
>
> There is none. If there was a reliable way to do that, there wouldn't be
> any false positives in the first place.

I realize now my mistake.

What I want to do is view them as messages, to see if any are legit.  I tried to open one using a
program that would "open" a .gz file, but the encoding was an unknown format even after I
extracted the file.

Any suggestions, or should I just say "they're f'in spam, delete already..."

Jay

>
> Mike Stone
> _______________________________________________
> ma-linux mailing list
> ma-linux@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-linux
>


From jbfrazer at verizon.net  Sun May 21 20:00:40 2006
From: jbfrazer at verizon.net (Jim Frazer)
Date: Sun May 21 21:00:43 2006
Subject: [novalug] gtk-gnutella on SUSE 10
In-Reply-To: <974b10640605191133r27e00909r6d5d6eca02446091@mail.gmail.com>
References: <974b10640605191133r27e00909r6d5d6eca02446091@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200605212000.40443.jbfrazer@verizon.net>

Alvin -

Yes I do.  Version 0.96, compiled from source, using GTK2 on AMD64.  SUSE 10.0 
boxed set, retail. 

Jim.

On Friday 19 May 2006 14:33, Alvin Smith wrote:
> Does anyone have gtk-gnutella working on SUSE 10?
>
> --
> Alvin
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Sun May 21 21:06:32 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Sun May 21 21:33:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <2818.192.168.1.14.1148256105.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <20060522010632.7420.qmail@web61021.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jay Hart <jhart@kevla.org> wrote:
> What I want to do is view them as messages, to see
> if any are legit.  I tried to open one using a
> program that would "open" a .gz file, but the
> encoding was an unknown format even after I
> extracted the file.

You can use zcat, or gunzip -c.  If you have a bunch
in one directory:

for FILE in *.gz
do
  zcat $FILE | less
done

-Ben

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Sun May 21 22:09:48 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Sun May 21 22:36:34 2006
Subject: [novalug] ARGHHH!
Message-ID: <200605212209.49083.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

Why can't people leave well enough alone? I had multimedia working just 
fine. Then a new codec, X264, raised its head. Mplayer won't play it 
without a new codec. OK.

The new codec requires a different version of several other libraries. I 
think you can see where this is going.

Question: There's a new version of Mplayer out. It will require updating 
some libraries, but I don't see anything that would cause another 
cascade of dependencies. Does anyone know if the new version of Mplayer 
will play x264? Am I the test case?

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From jhart at kevla.org  Sun May 21 23:00:59 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Sun May 21 23:01:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] ARGHHH!
In-Reply-To: <200605212209.49083.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <200605212209.49083.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <2286.192.168.1.16.1148266859.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> Why can't people leave well enough alone? I had multimedia working just
> fine. Then a new codec, X264, raised its head. Mplayer won't play it
> without a new codec. OK.

Why do you think you need the X264 codec in the first place?

Jay

>
> The new codec requires a different version of several other libraries. I
> think you can see where this is going.
>
> Question: There's a new version of Mplayer out. It will require updating
> some libraries, but I don't see anything that would cause another
> cascade of dependencies. Does anyone know if the new version of Mplayer
> will play x264? Am I the test case?
>
> Dan Arico
>
> --
> One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
> One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
> In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>


From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Mon May 22 09:26:25 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Mon May 22 09:56:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] ARGHHH!
In-Reply-To: <2286.192.168.1.16.1148266859.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <200605212209.49083.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
	<2286.192.168.1.16.1148266859.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <200605220926.25546.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Sun May 21 2006 11:00 pm, Jay Hart wrote:
> > Why can't people leave well enough alone? I had multimedia working
> > just fine. Then a new codec, X264, raised its head. Mplayer won't
> > play it without a new codec. OK.
>
> Why do you think you need the X264 codec in the first place?
>
> Jay

Because I'm running into avi files that use it.

Dan

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From przemek at jazz.ncnr.nist.gov  Mon May 22 10:02:19 2006
From: przemek at jazz.ncnr.nist.gov (Przemek Klosowski)
Date: Mon May 22 10:24:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	(jhart@kevla.org)
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>

   I now have quite the collection of emails within my spam/virus
   folder.  The spam messages seem to be stored in a .gz format.

   What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to
   ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?

Oh, if only I would know, I'd be famous... this sounds like a Turing test! 

Seriously, the messages got there because they were rated by your spam
classifier as spam. Are you asking for a quick retest (e.g. checking the
headers to make sure that they have the correct spam headers, e.g.:

	X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SpamAssassin (score=23.221, required 5,

or for a second independent method of spam-grading?
From jhart at kevla.org  Mon May 22 12:04:36 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Mon May 22 12:05:33 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
Message-ID: <18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

>    I now have quite the collection of emails within my spam/virus
>    folder.  The spam messages seem to be stored in a .gz format.
>
>    What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to
>    ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?
>
> Oh, if only I would know, I'd be famous... this sounds like a Turing test!
>
> Seriously, the messages got there because they were rated by your spam
> classifier as spam. Are you asking for a quick retest (e.g. checking the
> headers to make sure that they have the correct spam headers, e.g.:
>
> 	X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SpamAssassin (score=23.221, required 5,
>
> or for a second independent method of spam-grading?

Actually, what I am looking for is just a quick way to view the header and sender email address to
see if any of the "alleged" spam emails are legit.  I checked one last night, and it most
certainly was spam.

Jay

> _______________________________________________
> ma-linux mailing list
> ma-linux@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-linux
>


From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May 22 13:08:48 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May 22 14:09:01 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
	<18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <1148317728.9129.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 12:04 -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
> >    I now have quite the collection of emails within my spam/virus
> >    folder.  The spam messages seem to be stored in a .gz format.
> >
> >    What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to
> >    ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?
> >
> > Oh, if only I would know, I'd be famous... this sounds like a Turing test!
> >
> > Seriously, the messages got there because they were rated by your spam
> > classifier as spam. Are you asking for a quick retest (e.g. checking the
> > headers to make sure that they have the correct spam headers, e.g.:
> >
> > 	X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SpamAssassin (score=23.221, required 5,
> >
> > or for a second independent method of spam-grading?
> 
> Actually, what I am looking for is just a quick way to view the header and sender email address to
> see if any of the "alleged" spam emails are legit.  I checked one last night, and it most
> certainly was spam.
> 
> Jay

Since your first message said you where using "PostFix" which stores the
user mail spools in the MailDir format which is a one message per file
format and the file contents are normally simple ASCII text.

 And apparently your Anti-Spam software is the one GZIPping the data
{for some unknown reason (-: ie maybe to make looking at the SPAM harder
or something to that effect :-)} you might also want to look in it's
configuration and turn that feature off.

As for viewing the files themself:
One quick and easy way to view "text" files (gzip'd or otherwise) is
with "Midnight Commander" (mc)  {it's packaged as 'mc' for most
distributions if you don't currently have it installed}. It's internal
handlers and viewer can open a file as easy as pressing the <F3> key and
it also has and easy way to delete file. To use it all you have to have
is SHELL access to the system where you want to run it, once it's
installed, that is.


From jhart at kevla.org  Mon May 22 19:18:01 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Mon May 22 19:18:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <1148317728.9129.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
	<18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<1148317728.9129.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <2392.192.168.1.16.1148339881.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 12:04 -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
<snip>
>
> As for viewing the files themself:
> One quick and easy way to view "text" files (gzip'd or otherwise) is
> with "Midnight Commander" (mc)  {it's packaged as 'mc' for most
> distributions if you don't currently have it installed}. It's internal
> handlers and viewer can open a file as easy as pressing the <F3> key and
> it also has and easy way to delete file. To use it all you have to have
> is SHELL access to the system where you want to run it, once it's
> installed, that is.
>

Don,

mc worked like a champ. I confirmed that my spam filter did not mark any good emails as spam.

thanks, I'll use this method in the future.

Jay

>
>


From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May 22 19:53:44 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May 22 19:53:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <2392.192.168.1.16.1148339881.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
	<18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
	<1148317728.9129.34.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<2392.192.168.1.16.1148339881.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <1148342025.9129.58.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 19:18 -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-05-22 at 12:04 -0400, Jay Hart wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> 
> Don,
> 
> mc worked like a champ. I confirmed that my spam filter did not mark
> any good emails as spam.
> 
> thanks, I'll use this method in the future.
> 
> Jay
> 

Do note that 'mc' has a lot more uses then just that simple usage.

If you hi-lite a .tar (.zip .arc .rpm .deb ...) or just about any of the
common archive or package formats and press enter. You can move around
and copy file from within the archive/package just as if it was a read
only directory.

And that's just one other of it's many great features.


Side note:
I send all my 5.0 or higher SPAM to a folder that will only hold the
last ten(10) files stored within it. { 10 is a big enough buffer me. }

And yes I use 'mc' to view those files as there is NO normal email
reader I trust to properly handle reading all type of SPAM.

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune :
You will give someone a piece of your mind, which you can ill afford.
From dayalan at nova.org  Mon May 22 20:36:50 2006
From: dayalan at nova.org (W Alan Day)
Date: Mon May 22 20:55:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] Re: [ma-linux] checking mail in virusmail/spam folder
In-Reply-To: <18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
References: <2244.192.168.1.16.1148240167.squirrel@www.kevla.org>	<200605221402.KAA26547@jazz.ncnr.nist.gov>
	<18146.140.185.96.57.1148313876.squirrel@www.kevla.org>
Message-ID: <44725922.7040103@nova.org>

I ssh into my ISP and preview my email with pine -- resident on the 
email server.  I delete unwanted msgs and then download the rest using 
my email client (Mozilla).

Jay Hart wrote:
>>   I now have quite the collection of emails within my spam/virus
>>   folder.  The spam messages seem to be stored in a .gz format.
>>
>>   What method could be used to quickly scan through these message to
>>   ensure they are, in fact, spam and not a legitimate message?
>>
>>Oh, if only I would know, I'd be famous... this sounds like a Turing test!
>>
>>Seriously, the messages got there because they were rated by your spam
>>classifier as spam. Are you asking for a quick retest (e.g. checking the
>>headers to make sure that they have the correct spam headers, e.g.:
>>
>>	X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SpamAssassin (score=23.221, required 5,
>>
>>or for a second independent method of spam-grading?
> 
> 
> Actually, what I am looking for is just a quick way to view the header and sender email address to
> see if any of the "alleged" spam emails are legit.  I checked one last night, and it most
> certainly was spam.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
>>_______________________________________________
>>ma-linux mailing list
>>ma-linux@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/ma-linux
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
> 

-- 
W. Alan Day <dayalan@nova.org>     703-860-0181 (H)
"Day Hikes in the Metro Area (no pun intended)"
http://DayHikes.org/       http://DayHikes.org/Days_of_Yore/
From juliac at patriot.net  Mon May 22 23:54:40 2006
From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson)
Date: Mon May 22 23:54:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] sql-ledger support
Message-ID: <44728780.5040308@patriot.net>

I wonder if there are any consultants out there who are familiar with
sql-ledger and/or non-profit accounting.  I believe sql-ledger will do
what we need, and I expect that I could do the setup required if I had
time, but I don't.  So I need someone to work with our controller to
determine if it will indeed meet our needs, and if so to install and
configure it in time to switch over for at the start of the new fiscal
year on July 1.  Please email juliac@iconservices.org if interested.
Thanks,

-- Julia
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May 23 14:20:18 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May 23 14:20:29 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
In-Reply-To: <1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231051440.7082@titan.lserv.com>

On Sat, 20 May 2006, donjr wrote:

> On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 06:04 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
>>  	I'm in process of trying to set up this email account as 
>> a master that will be able to access my others. With a lot of 
>> help, I've got the master configured, or so I help and 
>> believe. But for some dumb reason, I can't seem to get the 
>> necessary aliases to take on my own machine.
>>
>
> Have you logged out and back in since editing the file?

 	I had, yes, several times, and even rebooted a couple 
times.

> Or have you done the following at a prompt:
>   source ~/.bash_profile

 	For some reason it took me a while to realize "source" 
could be a command. Then "man source" got me a whole dissertation 
on bash built-ins, all of it way over my head...

 	So I simply copied & pasted, and got

[btth@localhost ~]$ source ~/.bash_profile
[btth@localhost ~]$


>>  	What I have is this :
>>
>> [btth@localhost ~]$ cat .bash_profile
>> # .bash_profile
>>
>> # Get the aliases and functions
>> if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then
>>          . ~/.bashrc
>> fi
>>
>> # User specific environment and startup programs
>>
>> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin
>>
>> export PATH
>> unset USERNAME
>
> The above few lines should say in ~/.bash_profile
>
> But with such simple aliases as these that follow, I'd normally 
> put them in my ~/.bashrc file instead, that way they work in 
> sub-shells also, as ~/.bash_profile only get read/processed by 
> a Login Shell when it first opens.

 	Done, with thanks! the aliases are working, and I'm back 
to getting on with the pine-specific things. Many thanks!

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May 23 15:04:22 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May 23 15:04:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
In-Reply-To: <1148410462.9129.73.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231051440.7082@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148410462.9129.73.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231159260.11779@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 23 May 2006, donjr wrote:

> On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 11:20 -0700, Beartooth wrote:

>>  	For some reason it took me a while to realize "source" 
>> could be a command. Then "man source" got me a whole 
>> dissertation on bash built-ins, all of it way over my head...
> The next time 'man' gives you the "bash built-ins" spiel try 
> the following:
>    help <command>
>
> or in this case:
>    help source
>
> Which returns:
>  source: source filename

>      Read and execute commands from FILENAME and return.  The 
> pathnames in $PATH are used to find the directory containing 
> FILENAME.
>
> In other words (IOW) bash's source "command" is a LONG winded 
> way of issuing the "." command.
>
> Try the command:
>   help .
> As it returns:

>  .: . filename
>      Read and execute commands from FILENAME and return.  The 
> pathnames in $PATH are used to find the directory containing 
> FILENAME.
>
> Looks about the same to me.
>

 	Same here, and certainly a lot shorter. But still over my 
head ...

 	Follow-up question : does PATH mean the path to where my 
prompt first starts (/home/btth)? Or does it mean the path all 
the way to wherever pwd would tell me I am at the moment?

--
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Tue May 23 14:54:22 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Tue May 23 15:54:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231051440.7082@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231051440.7082@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1148410462.9129.73.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 11:20 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
> On Sat, 20 May 2006, donjr wrote:

<SNIP>

> > Or have you done the following at a prompt:
> >   source ~/.bash_profile
> 
>  	For some reason it took me a while to realize "source" 
> could be a command. Then "man source" got me a whole dissertation 
> on bash built-ins, all of it way over my head...
> 
>  	So I simply copied & pasted, and got
> 
> [btth@localhost ~]$ source ~/.bash_profile
> [btth@localhost ~]$
> 

The next time 'man' gives you the "bash built-ins" speel try the
following:
    help <command>

or in this case:
    help source

Which returns:
  source: source filename
      Read and execute commands from FILENAME and return.  The pathnames
      in $PATH are used to find the directory containing FILENAME.

In other words (IOW) bash's source "command" is a LONG winded way of
issuing the "." command.

Try the command:
   help .
As it returns:
  .: . filename
      Read and execute commands from FILENAME and return.  The pathnames
      in $PATH are used to find the directory containing FILENAME.

Looks about the same to me.

-- 
  DonJr...

TAG-GOES-HERE

From amk at amk.ca  Tue May 23 16:43:09 2006
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue May 23 17:03:51 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Python sprint in Arlington June 3
Message-ID: <20060523204309.GB25299@rogue.amk.ca>

A Python sprint will be held on Saturday June 3, from 10 AM to 5 PM at
the Arlington Career Center in Arlington VA.  Anyone who wants to help
develop the Python interpreter or a Python-related application is
welcome to come and join us.

Please sign up on the wiki page at
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/ArlingtonSprint>.  That page also has
directions and more information, and can be used to discuss tasks to
work on.

I've been wondering if an introductory talk to the Python
interpreter's architecture would be helpful to new participants.  If
you'd be interested in hearing such a talk and will be coming to the
sprint, please let me know.  If enough people are interested, I may
prepare a presentation.

Thanks to Jeff Elkner of the Arlington County Schools who found space
for holding a Python sprint.

--amk
From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Tue May 23 17:40:26 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Tue May 23 18:40:31 2006
Subject: [novalug] VDQ alias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231159260.11779@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605200552360.14588@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148136682.9129.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231051440.7082@titan.lserv.com>
	<1148410462.9129.73.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0605231159260.11779@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <1148420426.9129.95.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 12:04 -0700, Beartooth wrote:
> On Tue, 23 May 2006, donjr wrote:
 <SNIP>
> > Try the command:
> >   help .
> > As it returns:
> 
> >  .: . filename
> >      Read and execute commands from FILENAME and return.  The 
> > pathnames in $PATH are used to find the directory containing 
> > FILENAME.
> >
> > Looks about the same to me.
> >
> 
>  	Same here, and certainly a lot shorter. But still over my 
> head ...
> 
>  	Follow-up question : does PATH mean the path to where my 
> prompt first starts (/home/btth)? Or does it mean the path all 
> the way to wherever pwd would tell me I am at the moment?

$PATH in the above statement means the PATH environment variable, the
same one use to search for what external command(s) to execute. Which
normally defaults to something like the following:

  PATH=/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin

for a normal users with X installed on most systems. This was also why
in order to find and source the file ${HOME}/.bash_profile the command I
showed included it's full PATH, although in SHELL shorthand notation.
The '~' character is SHELL shorthand for the current value of the
environment variable HOME.
 { There are other such SHELL shorthand characters. }

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
Q: How many mathematicians does it take to screw in a light bulb? 
A: One. He gives it to six Californians, thereby reducing the problem to
the earlier joke.
From dougtoppin at gmail.com  Tue May 23 10:33:41 2006
From: dougtoppin at gmail.com (Doug Toppin)
Date: Tue May 23 20:18:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] suggestions for June topic (delicious and vim)
Message-ID: <250bc46e0605230733m1143111al6de3cbd36ed98738@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone is interested, lately I've been messing with the following things:

* http://del.icio.us/ (a site for maintaining your book marks,  there
is a firefox plugin for it that works pretty well)
* learning more about 'vim' (VI iMproved), I've been using vi for a
long time and figure that I should finally learn a little more about
it (viewports and .viminfo lately)
* a few other little things I've picked up from magazines recently

If we don't have any topics for the June NOVALUG and if anyone is
interested in the above I can do those as a presentation.

Doug

From greg at pryzby.org  Tue May 23 21:14:01 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Tue May 23 21:35:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] suggestions for June topic (delicious and vim)
In-Reply-To: <250bc46e0605230733m1143111al6de3cbd36ed98738@mail.gmail.com>
References: <250bc46e0605230733m1143111al6de3cbd36ed98738@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060524011401.GI13610@pryzby.org>

On Tue, May 23, 2006 at 10:33:41AM -0400, Doug Toppin wrote:
> If anyone is interested, lately I've been messing with the following things:
> 
> * http://del.icio.us/ (a site for maintaining your book marks,  there
> is a firefox plugin for it that works pretty well)
> * learning more about 'vim' (VI iMproved), I've been using vi for a
> long time and figure that I should finally learn a little more about
> it (viewports and .viminfo lately)
> * a few other little things I've picked up from magazines recently
> 
> If we don't have any topics for the June NOVALUG and if anyone is
> interested in the above I can do those as a presentation.

I am interested. 

I would like others to step forward also to talk about some tool or
thing they use Linux for and want to share. There is nothing too
small!


I am thinking of offering a geekfest-- bring your laptop for help
tweaking also depending on the length of the talks. 

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From pete at tux.org  Tue May 23 22:45:55 2006
From: pete at tux.org (Pete Nuwayser)
Date: Tue May 23 23:00:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT: Igor Birman please contact me
Message-ID: <20060523224555.A5849@gwyn.tux.org>

at $mylastname at gmail dot com

sorry for the interruption


-- 
Pete Nuwayser <pete@tux.org>  Tux.Org, Incorporated
http://www.tux.org

http://www.tux.org/~pete/nuwayser.asc for PGP public key
From truegsegger at csc.com  Tue May 23 21:06:36 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Wed May 24 01:12:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] suggestions for June topic (delicious and vim)
In-Reply-To: <250bc46e0605230733m1143111al6de3cbd36ed98738@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF74777F3B.FC9A02B5-ON04257178.0005F9DD-04257178.00061945@csc.com>

I, for one, am always interested in anything Doug has to say!
June or whenever.

Ted

From hitch at propheteer.org  Wed May 24 16:00:04 2006
From: hitch at propheteer.org (Chris Sanner)
Date: Wed May 24 16:18:55 2006
Subject: [novalug] suggestions for June topic (delicious and vim)
In-Reply-To: <20060524011401.GI13610@pryzby.org>
References: <250bc46e0605230733m1143111al6de3cbd36ed98738@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060524011401.GI13610@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <1148500804.5389.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

as far as del.icio.us - perhaps included in the discussion should be
open-source engines that perform that task?  I know half the benefit of
del.icio.us is to have everyone using the same site, but scuttle is a
good option for when you want to share bookmarks internally.

On Tue, 2006-05-23 at 21:14 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> On Tue, May 23, 2006 at 10:33:41AM -0400, Doug Toppin wrote:
> > If anyone is interested, lately I've been messing with the following things:
> > 
> > * http://del.icio.us/ (a site for maintaining your book marks,  there
> > is a firefox plugin for it that works pretty well)
> > * learning more about 'vim' (VI iMproved), I've been using vi for a
> > long time and figure that I should finally learn a little more about
> > it (viewports and .viminfo lately)
> > * a few other little things I've picked up from magazines recently
> > 
> > If we don't have any topics for the June NOVALUG and if anyone is
> > interested in the above I can do those as a presentation.
> 
> I am interested. 
> 
> I would like others to step forward also to talk about some tool or
> thing they use Linux for and want to share. There is nothing too
> small!
> 
> 
> I am thinking of offering a geekfest-- bring your laptop for help
> tweaking also depending on the length of the talks. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
__________________________________________________
Christopher Sanner   | mailto:hitch@propheteer.org
Phone  :571-277-0206 | http://propheteer.org/
Reviewer/Author for http://www.bureau42.com

You see, without that little doohicky, the universe stops.
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From 1a2ksu at comcast.net  Wed May 24 21:51:06 2006
From: 1a2ksu at comcast.net (1a2ksu@comcast.net)
Date: Wed May 24 22:09:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
Message-ID: <052520060151.26219.44750D8A0006660E0000666B22070210539A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>

I found this a while ago:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd

It's an ext2 file system driver for NT/2K/XP. I haven't tried it yet but it looks promising.

-Brian


> I'll back up everyone who says if you need to read and write it on 
> Windows, you're stuck with VFAT. 
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From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Thu May 25 14:05:19 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Thu May 25 14:05:28 2006
Subject: [novalug] Do I want a passfile for pine?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605251055340.12550@titan.lserv.com>


 	I have two email accounts, a local (mainly for usenet, 
stuck with POP3) and a remote (this one, IMAP, on which I do all 
I can of my email); I run five different machines, all of them 
running pine 4.64 against the local account, and all accessing 
this one via ssh to the server.

 	It got to be a real pain having five sets of local pine 
folders, much less keeping track what was in which. I finally 
thought to ask on comp.mail.pine if there were ab easier way -- 
and got an answer from Nancy McGough her own self, whose name 
will be to conjure with among any of you who follow that group 
a/o have used her pine FAQ at infiniteink.com.

 	She runs something like five accounts on God kknows how 
many machines, and has been generously walking me through the 
setting up. It seems to be almost there, and she points out that 
it will make my life easier if I have a passfile; but of course 
there is some increase in security risk -- which I'm not 
competent to quantify, much less translate into monosyllables.

 	Fwiw, I'm unable properly to evaluate my own security, 
and haven't a clue how to recover from being cracked.

 	So I try to be paranoid and can't keep up. I run more or 
less stock firewalls, inside a router; I have deny-hosts, and can 
turn it on and off; I run sshd, but need to figure out how to 
tell it to restrict connections to my own local 192.168.x.y 
addresses inside the router; I haven't made any attempt yet to 
get my mind around SELinux -- some machines tell it to warn, some 
have it disabled, and I don't know without looking which is 
which. (I also try to remember never to put anything into email 
that I wouldn't put onto a postcard; and afaict, the chances of 
a nasty monster getting his hands on my equipment physically 
are pretty slight.)

 	I'm trying to get a handle on which side of the trade-off 
I'm better coming down on. Any advice?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From nick at hackermonkey.com  Thu May 25 16:40:06 2006
From: nick at hackermonkey.com (Nick Danger)
Date: Thu May 25 17:18:40 2006
Subject: [novalug] Comments on Exchange Replacement
Message-ID: <44761626.6060407@hackermonkey.com>


After moving some servers today, our Exchange server is acting up
horribly. Its old and nasty (Ex 5.5) and I've been slowly converting the
company over to Open Source OS's, mostly Linux. I even have them
entertaining the idea of a Linux mail server for the company, but it has
to work with outlook and its shared folders/calendering.

So, there are two commercial products I've found/tested - OpenExchange
and Scalix. Both were more then I thought, but both are less then
getting a full Ex 2k3 running, even when we already paid for most of the
stuff we need for the Ex server. But, both have a few plusses and
minuses. And Im not sure which would work better for us as a whole.

Anyone running one of these and want to give some comments? In terms of
'youll never know you are running Linux' I sort of like Scalix, but OX
has some neat features I liked too. I'm not going to give the full
details of my situation, but I'd like to hear what others have tried/think.

-Nick
From ph03nixlepas at gmail.com  Thu May 25 17:47:31 2006
From: ph03nixlepas at gmail.com (Fahmi hudaya)
Date: Thu May 25 18:13:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
Message-ID: <8d5120b80605251447m1954a233p6672139bb2f6c45b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys I have two question here :
1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in one PC.
2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper Terminal, Is it
possible to configure cisco router using Linux

Thanks a lot
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From clif at cflynt.com  Thu May 25 18:40:54 2006
From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt)
Date: Thu May 25 19:01:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
Message-ID: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>

On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:47:31PM -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:

> 1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in one PC.

  Using VMWare and assuming Solaris-86: yes.

> 2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper Terminal, Is it
> possible to configure cisco router using Linux

  I've used expect scripts and telnet to configure Cisco routers, so I'll
assume anyone who knows the commands for Cisco can do this from Linux.

  Clif

-- 
.... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
.............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............


From sean.hendershot at gmail.com  Thu May 25 18:30:04 2006
From: sean.hendershot at gmail.com (Sean Hendershot)
Date: Thu May 25 19:33:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
In-Reply-To: <8d5120b80605251447m1954a233p6672139bb2f6c45b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8d5120b80605251447m1954a233p6672139bb2f6c45b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <180b505a0605251530j6c3af18aga88608b48b6fbe76@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/06, Fahmi hudaya <ph03nixlepas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys I have two question here :
> 1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in one PC.

Yes, grub can handle this.

> 2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper Terminal, Is it
> possible to configure cisco router using Linux

Yes, minicom works well.
>
> Thanks a lot
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>

From ph03nixlepas at gmail.com  Thu May 25 19:35:28 2006
From: ph03nixlepas at gmail.com (Fahmi hudaya)
Date: Thu May 25 19:35:31 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
In-Reply-To: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
References: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
Message-ID: <8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>

I've already have my PC installed with linux & windows, is it ok if I
install the unix ?.

Thanks Cliff but I dont like to use telnet for security reason :). and we
cannot do password recovery using telnet session


On 5/25/06, Clif Flynt <clif@cflynt.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:47:31PM -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
>
> > 1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in one PC.
>
> Using VMWare and assuming Solaris-86: yes.
>
> > 2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper Terminal, Is
> it
> > possible to configure cisco router using Linux
>
> I've used expect scripts and telnet to configure Cisco routers, so I'll
> assume anyone who knows the commands for Cisco can do this from Linux.
>
> Clif
>
> --
> .... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
> .. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
> ..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
> .............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............
>
>
>
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From bidwell at dead-city.org  Thu May 25 21:11:59 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Thu May 25 21:28:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
Message-ID: <447655DF.6000700@dead-city.org>

Hey all,
I'm brand new to linux on PPC and I'm trying to compile the latest
greatest kernel.  Now it might be because I'm using a release
canidate instead of a tried and true kernel, or it may be I just don't
know what I'm doing on PPC.
Does the following error mean anything to anyone out there:
bash:/usr/src/linux# make zImage
   CHK     include/linux/version.h
   CHK     include/linux/compile.h
   CC      kernel/signal.o
kernel/signal.c: In function ptrace_stop:
kernel/signal.c:1567: error: too many arguments to function 
do_notify_parent_cldstop
make[1]: *** [kernel/signal.o] Error 1
make: *** [kernel] Error 2

Searching on the internet hasn't turned anything up yet.
Thanks,
Matt
From mikepodoherty at netscape.net  Thu May 25 21:56:30 2006
From: mikepodoherty at netscape.net (mikepodoherty@netscape.net)
Date: Thu May 25 21:56:51 2006
Subject: [novalug] Comments on Exchange Replacement
In-Reply-To: <44761626.6060407@hackermonkey.com>
References: <44761626.6060407@hackermonkey.com>
Message-ID: <8C84E7EBE2C3469-60C-10FF7@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com>

IIRC

Xandros just released a linux based small business server and I believe 
they chose open exchange as the exchange server replacement.

Haven't tried it yet but the reviews seemed promissing.

Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Danger <nick@hackermonkey.com>
To: nova lug <novalug@tux.org>
Sent: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:40:06 -0400
Subject: [novalug] Comments on Exchange Replacement


After moving some servers today, our Exchange server is acting up
horribly. Its old and nasty (Ex 5.5) and I've been slowly converting the
company over to Open Source OS's, mostly Linux. I even have them
entertaining the idea of a Linux mail server for the company, but it has
to work with outlook and its shared folders/calendering.

So, there are two commercial products I've found/tested - OpenExchange
and Scalix. Both were more then I thought, but both are less then
getting a full Ex 2k3 running, even when we already paid for most of the
stuff we need for the Ex server. But, both have a few plusses and
minuses. And Im not sure which would work better for us as a whole.

Anyone running one of these and want to give some comments? In terms of
'youll never know you are running Linux' I sort of like Scalix, but OX
has some neat features I liked too. I'm not going to give the full
details of my situation, but I'd like to hear what others have 
tried/think.

-Nick
_______________________________________________
novalug mailing list
novalug@tux.org
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page


___________________________________________________
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From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Fri May 26 04:59:45 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Fri May 26 05:59:52 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
In-Reply-To: <8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
	<8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>

How has "Linux's" telnet
 (actually "netkit's telnet" is the common version)
any more security concerns then "M$ Window$ hyper Terminal"?

Both are using the same clear text protocol to communicate over the
network.

As far as possible ERRORS in the programs and/or there operating
environment M$ Window$ has far more reported problems then any of the
others combined.

-- 
DonJr

On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 19:35 -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
> I've already have my PC installed with linux & windows, is it ok if I
> install the unix ?. 
>  
> Thanks Cliff but I dont like to use telnet for security reason :). and
> we cannot do password recovery using telnet session
> 
>  
> On 5/25/06, Clif Flynt <clif@cflynt.com> wrote: 
>         On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:47:31PM -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
>         
>         > 1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in
>         one PC. 
>         
>         Using VMWare and assuming Solaris-86: yes.
>         
>         > 2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper
>         Terminal, Is it
>         > possible to configure cisco router using Linux


From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Fri May 26 05:48:39 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Fri May 26 06:48:46 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
In-Reply-To: <447655DF.6000700@dead-city.org>
References: <447655DF.6000700@dead-city.org>
Message-ID: <1148636920.9129.140.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 21:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm brand new to linux on PPC and I'm trying to compile the latest
> greatest kernel.

Why do you think you need a custom compiled kernel?

For all but special usage proposes and/or custom hardware support the
generic configured/compiled kernels are generally good enough.


>   Now it might be because I'm using a release
> canidate instead of a tried and true kernel, or it may be I just don't
> know what I'm doing on PPC.

What kernel source version are you using? (version.patchlevel-sublevel)
 (: As all versions of Linux Kernels are only "release candidate's". :)

> Does the following error mean anything to anyone out there:
> bash:/usr/src/linux# make zImage
>    CHK     include/linux/version.h
>    CHK     include/linux/compile.h
>    CC      kernel/signal.o
> kernel/signal.c: In function ptrace_stop:
> kernel/signal.c:1567: error: too many arguments to function 
> do_notify_parent_cldstop
> make[1]: *** [kernel/signal.o] Error 1
> make: *** [kernel] Error 2
> 
> Searching on the internet hasn't turned anything up yet.
> Thanks,
> Matt

When I did a Google on the following:
  signal.c ptrace_stop arguments do_notify_parent_cldstop

I got 28 possible hits, maybe your answer is in one of those hits.

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
The lovely woman-child Kaa was mercilessly chained to the cruel post of
the warrior-chief Beast, with his barbarian tribe now stacking wood at
her nubile feet, when the strong clear voice of the poetic and heroic
Handsomas roared, 'Flick your Bic, crisp that chick, and you'll feel my
steel through your last meal!' 
 -- Winning sentence, 1984 Bulwer-Lytton bad fiction contest.
From kevin at pheared.net  Fri May 26 07:00:39 2006
From: kevin at pheared.net (Kevin Dwyer)
Date: Fri May 26 07:01:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
In-Reply-To: <1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
	<8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>
	<1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060526110037.GA1154@bowser.pheared.net>

telnet can't communicate over serial.  This is a common way to configure
a router.  (That's why minicom was suggested.)

-kpd

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:59:45AM -0400, donjr wrote:
> How has "Linux's" telnet
>  (actually "netkit's telnet" is the common version)
> any more security concerns then "M$ Window$ hyper Terminal"?
> 
> Both are using the same clear text protocol to communicate over the
> network.
> 
> As far as possible ERRORS in the programs and/or there operating
> environment M$ Window$ has far more reported problems then any of the
> others combined.
> 
> -- 
> DonJr
> 
> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 19:35 -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
> > I've already have my PC installed with linux & windows, is it ok if I
> > install the unix ?. 
> >  
> > Thanks Cliff but I dont like to use telnet for security reason :). and
> > we cannot do password recovery using telnet session
> > 
> >  
> > On 5/25/06, Clif Flynt <clif@cflynt.com> wrote: 
> >         On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 05:47:31PM -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
> >         
> >         > 1.Is it possible to put Sun solaris, Linux, and windows in
> >         one PC. 
> >         
> >         Using VMWare and assuming Solaris-86: yes.
> >         
> >         > 2. I used to configure cisco router using M$ Window$ hyper
> >         Terminal, Is it
> >         > possible to configure cisco router using Linux
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
From mstone at mathom.us  Fri May 26 06:02:15 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Fri May 26 07:02:20 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
In-Reply-To: <1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
	<8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>
	<1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060526100213.GE27471@mathom.us>

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:59:45AM -0400, donjr wrote:
>How has "Linux's" telnet
> (actually "netkit's telnet" is the common version)
>any more security concerns then "M$ Window$ hyper Terminal"?

The use of dollar signs as s's is frankly stupid.

>Both are using the same clear text protocol to communicate over the
>network.

Hyper terminal is a serial terminal, not a network client.

Mike Stone
From bidwell at dead-city.org  Fri May 26 08:36:41 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (bidwell@dead-city.org)
Date: Fri May 26 08:34:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
In-Reply-To: <1148636920.9129.140.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <447655DF.6000700@dead-city.org>
	<1148636920.9129.140.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <47457.68.49.26.26.1148647001.squirrel@mail.dead-city.org>

donjr wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 21:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>> I'm brand new to linux on PPC and I'm trying to compile the latest
greatest kernel.
>>
> Why do you think you need a custom compiled kernel?
> For all but special usage proposes and/or custom hardware support the
generic configured/compiled kernels are generally good enough.
>
To get my airport extreme card working!
>>   Now it might be because I'm using a release
>> canidate instead of a tried and true kernel, or it may be I just don't
know what I'm doing on PPC.
>>
> What kernel source version are you using? (version.patchlevel-sublevel)
>  (: As all versions of Linux Kernels are only "release candidate's". :)
>
2.6.16.18 patched with 2.6.17-rc5
>> Does the following error mean anything to anyone out there:
>> bash:/usr/src/linux# make zImage
>>    CHK     include/linux/version.h
>>    CHK     include/linux/compile.h
>>    CC      kernel/signal.o
>> kernel/signal.c: In function ptrace_stop:
>> kernel/signal.c:1567: error: too many arguments to function
>> do_notify_parent_cldstop
>> make[1]: *** [kernel/signal.o] Error 1
>> make: *** [kernel] Error 2
>> Searching on the internet hasn't turned anything up yet.
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
> When I did a Google on the following:
>   signal.c ptrace_stop arguments do_notify_parent_cldstop
> I got 28 possible hits, maybe your answer is in one of those hits. --
>
Yes, but it all seems to be the kernel code and I'm not that skilled to 
know what to do with
that.

Matt




From clif at cflynt.com  Fri May 26 08:46:16 2006
From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt)
Date: Fri May 26 08:46:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] Sun solaris, Linux, Windows in one PC
References: <20060525224054.GA26552@clif.cflynt.com>
	<8d5120b80605251635y25915d8dua7d0b4670a893c62@mail.gmail.com>
	<1148633985.9129.120.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060526124616.GA30793@clif.cflynt.com>

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 07:00:39AM -0400, Kevin Dwyer wrote:
> telnet can't communicate over serial.  This is a common way to configure
> a router.  (That's why minicom was suggested.)
> 
> -kpd
> 
> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 04:59:45AM -0400, donjr wrote:
> > How has "Linux's" telnet
> > ...
> > Both are using the same clear text protocol to communicate over the
> > network.
> > 

  If it's a serial communication need, then cu or kermit should also
work.  I've not had reason to use either for several years, but they
used to work just fine.

> > On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 19:35 -0400, Fahmi hudaya wrote:
> > > I've already have my PC installed with linux & windows, is it ok if I
> > > install the unix ?. 

The normal route for a multi-boot system is to make N partitions on the
disk, install Windows first, then other OSs, and Linux last. Linux is
usually best at understanding the other boot blocks and working around
them.

I've not installed any of the BSDs on the same disk as Linux in too
many years to know how well they play together these days.

If you need to run the multiple OS's at once, then VMWare is good. I'm
using the pay version of Workstation to build my kits, and the free
VMPlayer to run them, and that seems to work fine.

Clif

-- 
.... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
.............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............


From rosejw at speakeasy.net  Fri May 26 08:44:17 2006
From: rosejw at speakeasy.net (rosejw@speakeasy.net)
Date: Fri May 26 09:12:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
Message-ID: <W473656333258061148647457@webmail4>

My guess is that your patching of the source is either not complete was not meant to go against your version of the kernel source.  You may want to get and install the full source for version 2.6.17-rc5 and compile against that.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bidwell@dead-city.org [mailto:bidwell@dead-city.org]
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 12:36 PM
> To: novalug@tux.org
> Subject: Re: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
> 
> donjr wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 21:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
> >
> >> Hey all,
> >> I'm brand new to linux on PPC and I'm trying to compile the latest
> greatest kernel.
> >>
> > Why do you think you need a custom compiled kernel?
> > For all but special usage proposes and/or custom hardware support the
> generic configured/compiled kernels are generally good enough.
> >
> To get my airport extreme card working!
> >>   Now it might be because I'm using a release
> >> canidate instead of a tried and true kernel, or it may be I just don't
> know what I'm doing on PPC.
> >>
> > What kernel source version are you using? (version.patchlevel-sublevel)
> >  (: As all versions of Linux Kernels are only "release candidate's". :)
> >
> 2.6.16.18 patched with 2.6.17-rc5
> >> Does the following error mean anything to anyone out there:
> >> bash:/usr/src/linux# make zImage
> >>    CHK     include/linux/version.h
> >>    CHK     include/linux/compile.h
> >>    CC      kernel/signal.o
> >> kernel/signal.c: In function ptrace_stop:
> >> kernel/signal.c:1567: error: too many arguments to function
> >> do_notify_parent_cldstop
> >> make[1]: *** [kernel/signal.o] Error 1
> >> make: *** [kernel] Error 2
> >> Searching on the internet hasn't turned anything up yet.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Matt
> >>
> > When I did a Google on the following:
> >   signal.c ptrace_stop arguments do_notify_parent_cldstop
> > I got 28 possible hits, maybe your answer is in one of those hits. --
> >
> Yes, but it all seems to be the kernel code and I'm not that skilled to 
> know what to do with
> that.
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 



From dac at cafaro.net  Fri May 26 09:35:52 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Fri May 26 10:04:38 2006
Subject: [novalug] Comments on Exchange Replacement
In-Reply-To: <44761626.6060407@hackermonkey.com>
References: <44761626.6060407@hackermonkey.com>
Message-ID: <1148650552.5739.11.camel@falstaff>

We are currently running OpenXchange in a limited capacity in the
office.  We aren't using the email portion (which is really just an imap
client for the most part).  Primarily it is being used as a shared
calendar and documents web portal.  It's working very well for us.
Installation was a nightmare, and administration is all command
line/ldap/sql commands.  

My biggest gripe about OpenXchange was a lack of Evolultion plugin.
Last I spoke with the Scalix people they had an evolution plugin
available.  Both had Outlook plugins that supported the majority of the
features.

I plan on making the migration from the free OpenXchange to the
commercial OpenXchange in the near future (for the improved admin
tools).  The opensource version at least let us test out and see if it
would work for us (which it has).

Unfortunately the free Scalix version does not include the shared
calendars/folders which is the primary need of ours.  To bad since I
thought Scalix has the nicer interface from what I've seen.

That's my experience with the two.

-David

On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 16:40 -0400, Nick Danger wrote:
> After moving some servers today, our Exchange server is acting up
> horribly. Its old and nasty (Ex 5.5) and I've been slowly converting the
> company over to Open Source OS's, mostly Linux. I even have them
> entertaining the idea of a Linux mail server for the company, but it has
> to work with outlook and its shared folders/calendering.
> 
> So, there are two commercial products I've found/tested - OpenExchange
> and Scalix. Both were more then I thought, but both are less then
> getting a full Ex 2k3 running, even when we already paid for most of the
> stuff we need for the Ex server. But, both have a few plusses and
> minuses. And Im not sure which would work better for us as a whole.
> 
> Anyone running one of these and want to give some comments? In terms of
> 'youll never know you are running Linux' I sort of like Scalix, but OX
> has some neat features I liked too. I'm not going to give the full
> details of my situation, but I'd like to hear what others have tried/think.
> 
> -Nick
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
-- 
David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>

From benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com  Fri May 26 09:44:18 2006
From: benjaminworthcreitz at yahoo.com (ben creitz)
Date: Fri May 26 10:11:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
Message-ID: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>

1. Can somebody describe the difference between
running a dual-CPU system and a single CPU, dual-core
system?

2. What is the penalty for running a 32-bit OS on
64-bit hardware?  Under what conditions (if not all)
is the penalty significant, eg. will I only suffer
when doing lots of heavy math?

-Ben

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From bdalzell at qis.net  Fri May 26 09:48:33 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Fri May 26 10:15:19 2006
Subject: [novalug] Linux on an older PPC MAC
In-Reply-To: <1148636920.9129.140.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605260947190.563-100000@eclipse>


Anyone installed linux on an older PPC MAC? DO you get better performance
than with MAC OS9? The machine in question is not OSX capable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
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From brandon20va at yahoo.com  Fri May 26 09:50:10 2006
From: brandon20va at yahoo.com (Brandon Saxe)
Date: Fri May 26 10:16:59 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
Message-ID: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I just recently became a sysadmin at a small company (windows shop, mainly), so I have much to learn....

Anyway, a user reported problems with a WinXP workstation, noting that it had
1) heard grinding noises and then...
2) randomly rebooted and then...
3) displayed "the system has recovered from a serious error." on reboot.

The machine is VERY SLOW now. It boots, but everything is SLOW.

I downloaded DSL linux and got smartmontools to report the drive's health and SMART says the drive is failing and expected to fail in 24 hours.

So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking attach another hard disk and performing:
# dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb

will that work? what would you do? I really don't want to have to copy individual files and rebuild the Windows install if i can avoid it.

Thanks!
  Brandon
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From bidwell at dead-city.org  Fri May 26 10:52:00 2006
From: bidwell at dead-city.org (Matt Bidwell)
Date: Fri May 26 10:52:00 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
In-Reply-To: <W473656333258061148647457@webmail4>
References: <W473656333258061148647457@webmail4>
Message-ID: <44771610.7000304@dead-city.org>

rosejw@speakeasy.net wrote:
> My guess is that your patching of the source is either not complete was not meant to go against your version of the kernel source.  You may want to get and install the full source for version 2.6.17-rc5 and compile against that.
<snip>
Well I've reread the instructions and it clearly states this morning 
what I couldn't see yesterday.  I'm supposed to patch against 2.6.16, 
not 2.6.16.18.  I don't think there's a full version, only a patch,
but I'll check for that too and let everyone know what happened.

Matt
From dac at cafaro.net  Fri May 26 11:38:37 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Fri May 26 11:38:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff>

On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 06:44 -0700, ben creitz wrote:
> 1. Can somebody describe the difference between
> running a dual-CPU system and a single CPU, dual-core
> system?

There is a little difference in how a dual core access resources such as
memory vs a single core dual cpu.  In an AMD system each processor has
it's own memory controller that access a local share of the system
memory (and shares this memory with the other processor over a highspeed
link called hypertransport).  In a dual core setup, there is a single
memory controller sharing a single bank of ram for both cores.  This may
be a slight bottle neck on small memory footprint many access uses of
ram for the dual core, where it may be an advantage in low access large
memory footprint processes.  Because of the tight integration of the
cores and the design, this isn't going to be an issue for the majority
of instances.  Same with the single core and hyperlink dual cpu
situation.  They have been designed well in both cases to deal with
this.

As for the Intel architecture, in the current round of dual cpu vs dual
core, there isn't that much to say, because of the design, it's even
more like a dual core behaving like a dual cpu.  The memory controller
is on the northbridge, but both cores are not as tightly integrated with
each other as the AMD version.  This could cause some contention with
the link to the north bridge between the to separate cores.

The biggest advantage of the dual-core is the fact you can get more
processors cores stuffed into the same space vs a single core system.
If you have a dual processor mother board you can have 4 cores churning
away at your tasks vs only two.  Of if you have a single processor
motherboard, you can get the majority of the advantages of a dual
processor system in the same space as a single processor.

> 
> 2. What is the penalty for running a 32-bit OS on
> 64-bit hardware?  Under what conditions (if not all)
> is the penalty significant, eg. will I only suffer
> when doing lots of heavy math?

There isn't really a penalty if you compare it to other 32bit systems.
A 64 bit system (AMD x64, Intel EMT64) has the same performance running
a 32 bit OS as an equivalent non x64 system running a 32bit os.

If you put a 64 bit OS on then you will get some advantages of the x64
bit system, but 32 bit applications may not run, or will run at a
disadvantage compared to the same application running on a 32bit OS (the
64bit os must emulate a 32bit environment).  You will need to compile or
use 64 bit applications on the 64bit OS to take advantage of it.

Hope that helps some, I think I got all the details right, that's based
on some reading I've done on it, but I'm not an Kernel guru, nor a
hardware hacker by trade.

-David


> 
> -Ben
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
-- 
David Cafaro <dac@cafaro.net>

From mstone at mathom.us  Fri May 26 10:44:07 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Fri May 26 11:44:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060526144405.GG27471@mathom.us>

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 06:44:18AM -0700, ben creitz wrote:
>1. Can somebody describe the difference between
>running a dual-CPU system and a single CPU, dual-core
>system?

There is none in general. In practice the specific implementations may 
cause performance differences between the two.

>2. What is the penalty for running a 32-bit OS on
>64-bit hardware?  Under what conditions (if not all)
>is the penalty significant, eg. will I only suffer
>when doing lots of heavy math?

The terms "32 bit OS" and "64 bit hardware" don't really mean much. I 
suspect you really mean "amd64 or em64t in i386/ia32 mode". There are 
three differences: first, you can't effectively use more than 3G of RAM in 
i386 mode. (You can play games with PAE, but there's a performance 
impact.) So if you want a lot of RAM you should use a processor & OS 
that support 64 bit addressing; if you have 1 or 2G, it doesn't matter. 
The second difference is that the x86-64 instruction set provides more 
general purpose registers than the i386 instruction set. In some 
applications these additional registers can provide a performance boost. 
In other applications you get a performance decrease because of the 
third difference: if you're using 64 bit addressing than in general the 
size of your code is going to be bigger than with 32 bit addressing, 
which means that fewer instructions can fit into your processor cache. 
The interplay between 2 & 3 mean that you really need to benchmark a 
specific application to determine which way to go. For a desktop system 
you're going to be better off ignoring the x86-64 extensions unless you 
just want to play around with them.

Mike Stone
From Roger at just.net  Fri May 26 11:56:53 2006
From: Roger at just.net (Roger W. Broseus)
Date: Fri May 26 11:57:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] Codec Hell
Message-ID: <2881.64.209.148.60.1148659013.squirrel@63.138.251.57>

Error message displayed by Windows (XP Pro) Media Player (10.0...) today
(Dan Arico will LOVE this):

"Windows Media Player cannot play the file. One or more codecs required to
play the file could not be found."

-- 
Roger W. Broseus

From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Fri May 26 10:57:48 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Fri May 26 11:57:53 2006
Subject: [novalug] ptrace error compiling kernel
In-Reply-To: <47457.68.49.26.26.1148647001.squirrel@mail.dead-city.org>
References: <447655DF.6000700@dead-city.org>
	<1148636920.9129.140.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<47457.68.49.26.26.1148647001.squirrel@mail.dead-city.org>
Message-ID: <1148655468.9129.164.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 08:36 -0400, bidwell@dead-city.org wrote:
> donjr wrote:
> > On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 21:11 -0400, Matt Bidwell wrote:
> >
> >> Hey all,
> >> I'm brand new to linux on PPC and I'm trying to compile the latest
> greatest kernel.
> >>
> > Why do you think you need a custom compiled kernel?
> > For all but special usage proposes and/or custom hardware support the
> generic configured/compiled kernels are generally good enough.
> >
> To get my airport extreme card working!

Might I suggest "starting over" more or less.

First search for:
  linux ppc airport extreme card

(you might also add the version of the card as the older "Lucent
Orinoco" chipset based is currently fully supported while the newer
"Broadcom 43xx" chipset based version requires external drivers and even
then support may be somewhat ifee..)

See:
  <http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-ppc-faq.xml#airport>


Also which Distribution of Linux are you using?

Which one makes a big difference in how you go about adding support for
additional hardware.

If it's Gentoo then to add the drivers for the "Broadcom" based version
it's suppose-ily as easy as issuing the command:
  # emerge bcm43xx

(The ones for the other card is already built into and for the kernel.)


Do note that I'm an i386 chipset based Linux user and have only ever
looked at Apples at the store. {Apple computers that is.}

--  
-- 
 Don E. Groves, Jr. 

$ /usr/games/fortune : 
  A is for Apple.
  -- Hester Pryne 
From LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info  Fri May 26 12:31:06 2006
From: LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info (Bernie Hoefer)
Date: Fri May 26 13:13:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44772D4A.50100@TheMoreIKnow.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Brandon Saxe wrote:
===
> So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking
> attach another hard disk and performing:
> # dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
===
     First, let me say that I am no expert.  Doing some quick Google
searches on the subject shows that there is a lot of confusion out there
about when one can use dd for such things.  (Must one dd an entire
drive?  Can one dd just partitions?  etc.)
     My *belief* is that you could run the above dd command, BUT:  (1)
it would take an incredibly long time depending on the size of the
drive, (2) you'd have to make sure hdb is the same geometry as hda, and
(3) if hda now has corrupted blocks, hdb will have them, too.

===
> will that work? what would you do? I really don't want to have to
> copy individual files and rebuild the Windows install if i can avoid
> it.
===
     I'd bite the bullet and re-install Windows XP onto a new drive.
Hopefully you have a Ghost image you can quickly put on a new drive, or
a unattended slip-stream install so it won't take up so much time.
Then, you could either hook the bad drive up as the slave and try to
copy the users's data from within Windows or put the bad drive in
another computer and use a KNOPPIX CD to mount it read-only and copy the
files to the new machine over the network via Samba.

     If you go the dd route, please let us know how it works for you!

- --
Bernie Hoefer
PGP e-mail is welcome!  Get my 1024 bit signature key from:
<http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x446A6F93>.
"The more I know, the more I realize how much I do not understand."

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From larkoc at cola.iges.org  Fri May 26 13:47:00 2006
From: larkoc at cola.iges.org (Megan Larko)
Date: Fri May 26 14:15:28 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff>
Message-ID: <44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org>

David A. Cafaro wrote:

>On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 06:44 -0700, ben creitz wrote:
>  
>
>>1. Can somebody describe the difference between
>>running a dual-CPU system and a single CPU, dual-core
>>system?
>>    
>>
****  interesting comments snipped for brevity ***

I have read with interest the comments of Mike Stone and David Cafaro on 
32-bit/64-bit OS.
Pls allow me to put some very recent (last 5 days) experience into the mix.

My office ordered some new acer laptops.  One was a dual-core Centrino 
1Gb RAM.  The others were AMD 64-bit Turinos with 1Gb RAM.    All came 
pre-installed with WindowsXP, minus Office.   All are dual-booting with 
Fedora Core linux.

The Centrino was not stable on FC4, errors about cpufreq and similar.   
It turns out that the files under /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1 were 
never created.  The spec files all existed under 
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq directory.   I installed FC5 32-bit 
and the system was so---- much zippier.  The cpu errors also went away.

The AMD 64-bit laptops are Turion mobile.  I have discovered that this 
is **not** the same as x86_64 like Opteron.  The WinXP is a 64-bit 
version but files such as ghostview for x86_64 will not work on the 
Turion.  The 32-bit version of ghostview and GSview for WinXP is fine.  
OpenOffice 2.0, Firefox, Thunderbird only seemed to have a single 
(32-bit, I'm assuming) version for WinXP.    The WinXP side of the 
Turion 64-bit is running fine.   The linux side would not have anything 
to do with the x86_64 FC4 DVD.    Gagged each and every time.  However 
an install of FC5 32-bit is running just fine  (622Mb of patches after 
the initial FC5 install yesterday).  So I'll run in 32-bit mode on the 
linux side and some of the WinXP functions.  It's okay, it's a laptop.

Between the two system types, the performance (opening openoffice files, 
find/search on linux/win, etc...) on the dual core Centrino laptop is 
better.

Now the quad-processor dual core Opteron server (5U 6Tb sATA), that is 
running FC4 because I have not yet located for download a x86_64bit 
version of FC5; that is this weekends' project.  The FC4 install came 
from the vendor Monarch Computer.  That box I will certainly keep in a 
64-bit OS as it is a primary number cruncher.  However 3rd party 
programs such as GrADS is having problems with the /lib64/ paths so I 
dumbly symlinked the libtermcap.so.2 from /lib64/ to /lib/.  The  GrADS 
program is running but I don't know if the images it creates are 
accurate yet.    (GrADS is a scientifc data visualiztion package for 
primarily weather data freely available from iges.org.)

My personal experiences.
megan
From bdalzell at qis.net  Fri May 26 14:26:09 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Fri May 26 14:26:14 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605261420440.20935-100000@eclipse>

Before I did anything else I would try to identify the folders with the
unique user data and work files on them and then got those things backed
up to a thumb drive or a cd as quickly as possibe.

After that you can worry about the problems associated with mirroring the
entire harddrive so as to avoid a reinstall. However reinstalling is a
minor problem comparing to loosing unique user authored files with data
and work in them.

                 AAARGH!

In extreme cases I have been able to get a apparantly failed harddrive to
spin back up long enough to get important stuff off of it by unmounting it
and giving it a hard shake. However this is a terminal procedure.

You may want to go around and to all the machines you are responsible in
this company for and see if you can figure out how long the hardrives have
been in them. It is my understanding that it is a good idea to consider
replacing IDE type hardrives every 3 years and scsi drives every 5 years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From igor_birman at yahoo.com  Fri May 26 14:25:05 2006
From: igor_birman at yahoo.com (Igor Birman)
Date: Fri May 26 14:51:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060526182505.67640.qmail@web60521.mail.yahoo.com>

First of all, backup any data that you will be needing off this drive.  Once this is done you can indeed copy the partition from it to another drive.  I have used partimage in the past to copy an NTFS partition.  You can use qtparted to create your partition, and partimage to copy it.  Partimage is installed on the System Rescue CD: http://www.sysresccd.org
 
Igor 

----- Original Message ----
From: Brandon Saxe <brandon20va@yahoo.com>
To: novalug mailing list <novalug@tux.org>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 9:50:10 AM
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?

Hi all,

I just recently became a sysadmin at a small company (windows shop, mainly), so I have much to learn....

Anyway, a user reported problems with a WinXP workstation, noting that it had
1) heard grinding noises and then...
2) randomly rebooted and then...
3) displayed "the system has recovered from a serious error." on reboot.

The machine is VERY SLOW now. It boots, but everything is SLOW.

I downloaded DSL linux and got smartmontools to report the drive's health and SMART says the drive is failing and expected to fail in 24 hours.

So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking attach another hard disk and performing:
# dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb

will that work? what would you do? I really don't want to have to copy individual files and rebuild the Windows install if i can avoid it.

Thanks!
  Brandon
_______________________________________________
novalug mailing list
novalug@tux.org
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page



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From mstone at mathom.us  Fri May 26 15:25:59 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Fri May 26 15:26:06 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff> <44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org>
Message-ID: <20060526192557.GH27471@mathom.us>

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:47:00PM -0400, Megan Larko wrote:
>The AMD 64-bit laptops are Turion mobile.  I have discovered that this 
>is **not** the same as x86_64 like Opteron.

Yeah, it is. But you need to have the x86-64 version of the OS installed 
before you can run x86-64 binaries. I've got one running debian amd64. 
(For amd64 development, not because there's a practical advantage in 
doing so.)

Mike Stone
From larkoc at cola.iges.org  Fri May 26 15:48:57 2006
From: larkoc at cola.iges.org (Megan Larko)
Date: Fri May 26 15:49:42 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <20060526192557.GH27471@mathom.us>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>	<1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff>
	<44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org> <20060526192557.GH27471@mathom.us>
Message-ID: <44775BA9.5070903@cola.iges.org>

Michael Stone wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 01:47:00PM -0400, Megan Larko wrote:

Hi Mike,

My FC4 x86_64 DVD from which I installed  other Opterons  choked and 
gagged on my Turion.
The ghostscript x86_64 for WinXP wouldn't successfully run on the Turion 
either.

1st case attempting to install 64-bit OS; 2nd 64-bit OS was installed 
but other 3rd party x86_64 wouldn't run.

In my personal experience Opteron != Turion.

megan

>> The AMD 64-bit laptops are Turion mobile.  I have discovered that 
>> this is **not** the same as x86_64 like Opteron.
>
>
> Yeah, it is. But you need to have the x86-64 version of the OS 
> installed before you can run x86-64 binaries. I've got one running 
> debian amd64. (For amd64 development, not because there's a practical 
> advantage in doing so.)
>
> Mike Stone
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>


-- 
Megan Larko, IT Systems Administrator
Center for Research on Environment & Water (CREW)
4041 Powder Mill Road., Suite 500
Calverton,  MD  20705-3106

From mstone at mathom.us  Fri May 26 16:49:43 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Fri May 26 16:49:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <44775BA9.5070903@cola.iges.org>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff> <44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org>
	<20060526192557.GH27471@mathom.us> <44775BA9.5070903@cola.iges.org>
Message-ID: <20060526204941.GI27471@mathom.us>

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:48:57PM -0400, Megan Larko wrote:
>My FC4 x86_64 DVD from which I installed  other Opterons  choked and 
>gagged on my Turion.

Might just be an issue of install-time hardware support for that 
particular distribution. Laptops often have wackier peripherals than 
other types of systems. Didn't your previous email say you had other 
issues with FC4 that were fixed in FC5?

>The ghostscript x86_64 for WinXP wouldn't successfully run on the Turion 
>either.

I've never seen a laptop with the XP "x64" version installed. I've seen 
regular XP with "64 bit processor support" or somesuch, which isn't the 
same thing. (The latter just enables certain functions such as the no 
execute flag, it doesn't actually change the instruction set despite the 
misleading name.) Beyond that observation I can't say much more without 
seeing more info.

Mike Stone
From larkoc at cola.iges.org  Fri May 26 17:06:09 2006
From: larkoc at cola.iges.org (Megan Larko)
Date: Fri May 26 17:06:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] hardware questions
In-Reply-To: <20060526204941.GI27471@mathom.us>
References: <20060526134418.49758.qmail@web61012.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1148657917.5739.52.camel@falstaff>
	<44773F14.8010808@cola.iges.org> <20060526192557.GH27471@mathom.us>
	<44775BA9.5070903@cola.iges.org> <20060526204941.GI27471@mathom.us>
Message-ID: <44776DC1.80304@cola.iges.org>

Michael Stone wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 03:48:57PM -0400, Megan Larko wrote:
>
>> My FC4 x86_64 DVD from which I installed  other Opterons  choked and 
>> gagged on my Turion.
>
>
> Might just be an issue of install-time hardware support for that 
> particular distribution. Laptops often have wackier peripherals than 
> other types of systems. Didn't your previous email say you had other 
> issues with FC4 that were fixed in FC5?

The dual-core Centrino had cpu issues in FC4 that went away in FC5.  
Other than the cpu and manufacture of the CD/DVD drive, all laptops are 
acer brand with like memory and hard drive configuration.  The video 
cards were slightly different.  The 64-bit laptops had ATI Mobility 
Radeon with 128 Mb  RAM; the dual-core Centrion had ATI Rage.

>
>> The ghostscript x86_64 for WinXP wouldn't successfully run on the 
>> Turion either.
>
>
> I've never seen a laptop with the XP "x64" version installed. I've 
> seen regular XP with "64 bit processor support" or somesuch, which 
> isn't the same thing. (The latter just enables certain functions such 
> as the no execute flag, it doesn't actually change the instruction set 
> despite the misleading name.) Beyond that observation I can't say much 
> more without seeing more info.


That makes sense.  The packaging says 64-bit, but it could be only the 
processor.  The web auto-detect sites (firefox, thunderbird) all 
auto-selected 32-bit packages for the Turion WinXP side.  Although 
truthfully I don't know if any other version exists.

>
> Mike Stone


Enjoy,
megan

>
>


-- 
Megan Larko, IT Systems Administrator
Center for Research on Environment & Water (CREW)
4041 Powder Mill Road., Suite 500
Calverton,  MD  20705-3106

From RossPatterson at comcast.net  Fri May 26 18:24:13 2006
From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson)
Date: Fri May 26 18:56:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060526175937.02cd5060@Comcast.Net>

At 09:50 05/26/06, Brandon Saxe wrote:
>I just recently became a sysadmin at a small company (windows shop, 
>mainly), so I have much to learn....

Your toolkit (every sysadmin should have a toolkit with him at all 
times) should contain at least:
    * A recent Knoppix CD-ROM 
(http://knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html).  Version 5.0 will be out 
soon, and will for the first time have read/write NTFS support.  Woo hoo!
    * A Windows NT/XP/2000 Password Recovery boot CD-ROM 
(http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd).  If your users don't have 
encrypted files, it will save your life repeatedly.
    * A BartPE CD-ROM (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder) - for those days 
when you *must* have a Windows live CD lying around.
    * A bootable (are you sensing a theme here?) copy of memtest86 
(http://www.memtest86.com).  Especially useful when a machine "gets 
flaky" and the disk drive appears good.  If there's anything wrong 
with the memory, memtest86 will find it.  It's never wrong - memory 
suppliers generally accept its results as justifying an RMA.

>1) heard grinding noises and then...
>2) randomly rebooted and then...
>3) displayed "the system has recovered from a serious error." on reboot.
>
>The machine is VERY SLOW now. It boots, but everything is SLOW.
>
>I downloaded DSL linux and got smartmontools to report the drive's 
>health and SMART says the drive is failing and expected to fail in 24 hours.

Yeah, that makes sense.  Noises that are described as grinding, 
slapping, springy, etc. are almost always a drive dying 
quickly.  Spontaneous re-boots in a previously OK system are also 
usually a drive problem, unless the user has fried something through 
a static electricity injection.

>So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking 
>attach another hard disk and performing:
># dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
>
>will that work?

Maybe.  You're going to copy every sector of the disk that way, even 
the unused ones.  If you get any errors, you won't have any idea 
whether they're in freespace (good) or in files (bad).  It will 
probably go pretty fast, at least if the drive isn't too sick to copy 
at all.  If you hear funny noises or if it seems really slow, the 
drive is probably beyond help.

>what would you do?

Start by turning the machine off.  Let the drive cool down and 
"relax" - you may find it reads better afterwards (but not for long).

I'd boot a BartPE CD with both the new and old drives installed, and 
try to copy the files from the old disk to the new one.  That way you 
only try to read the sectors you absolutely have to read.  Every 
second of activity on the old disk is another second it gets closer 
to death, and you shouldn't waste any of them.  Don't copy anything 
you can avoid, at least not if it's large (e.g., Windows swapfile, 
Internet Explorer/Firefox/whatever browser cache).  Copy the most 
important things first (e.g., \Documents and Settings, everything but 
\Windows) in case the drive dies before you can finish.

Good luck.  And tell your boss you need a large USB 2.0 external disk 
drive (at least twice the size of the largest disk in your shop) and 
a copy of Acronis True Image (http://www.acronis.com/) sitting on the 
shelf ready to go for the next time this happens.  When a drive gets 
sick, there is no time to waste.  Practice a bare-metal 
disk-copy-and-restore using a spare machine and this setup over and 
over until you can start it up and go get coffee and feel comfortable 
that it will succeed.

You do drink coffee, right?  You're a sysadmin - if you don't, you'd 
better start :-)

Ross 

From RossPatterson at comcast.net  Fri May 26 18:35:36 2006
From: RossPatterson at comcast.net (Ross Patterson)
Date: Fri May 26 18:58:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605261420440.20935-100000@eclipse>
References: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0605261420440.20935-100000@eclipse>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060526183003.02cf1650@Comcast.Net>

At 14:26 05/26/06, Bonnie Dalzell wrote:
>You may want to go around and to all the machines you are responsible in
>this company for and see if you can figure out how long the hardrives have
>been in them. It is my understanding that it is a good idea to consider
>replacing IDE type hardrives every 3 years and scsi drives every 5 years.

All the major drive manufacturers have online warranty lookup 
capabilities.  Write down the model and serial numbers from all your 
disk drives and go check them out.  If a drive is out of warranty, 
keep an eye on it.  It might not fail soon, but there's a reason why 
a drive is only warranted for <x> years - its average MTBF is <x+y> 
years for some small value of y.

There's an added benefit - if a drive that's in warranty fails, the 
manufacturer will usually replace it with no headache.  Then you've 
got a cold, almost-zero-hours-used (you tested it, right?), spare 
sitting on the shelf, ready to use the next time you need to perform 
an emergency copy-and-swap.

Ross 

From brandon20va at yahoo.com  Fri May 26 20:28:49 2006
From: brandon20va at yahoo.com (Brandon Saxe)
Date: Fri May 26 20:55:39 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060526175937.02cd5060@Comcast.Net>
Message-ID: <20060527002850.44797.qmail@web50815.mail.yahoo.com>

oh darn it,

I went ahead and went on my own shortly after posting. had to run to staples and get a new drive, then hooked up the new drive and used DSL to do

# dd_rescue -l /dev/hdb /dev/hda

It's been cranking away since 2:15 pm. At 5:30 was done with 13 gigs out of 60. I hope it lives through the rest okay.

Thanks for the toolbox and other tips to those who've posted. This place I started at doesn't even have a backup system in place! Figures, the 3rd day on the job, an important file was lost and there were no backups! I have some work/learning to do.

And YES, i LOVE COFFEE! :)

I'll follow-up with how it goes.

Brandon

Ross Patterson <RossPatterson@Comcast.Net> wrote: At 09:50 05/26/06, Brandon Saxe wrote:
>I just recently became a sysadmin at a small company (windows shop, 
>mainly), so I have much to learn....

Your toolkit (every sysadmin should have a toolkit with him at all 
times) should contain at least:
    * A recent Knoppix CD-ROM 
(http://knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html).  Version 5.0 will be out 
soon, and will for the first time have read/write NTFS support.  Woo hoo!
    * A Windows NT/XP/2000 Password Recovery boot CD-ROM 
(http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd).  If your users don't have 
encrypted files, it will save your life repeatedly.
    * A BartPE CD-ROM (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder) - for those days 
when you *must* have a Windows live CD lying around.
    * A bootable (are you sensing a theme here?) copy of memtest86 
(http://www.memtest86.com).  Especially useful when a machine "gets 
flaky" and the disk drive appears good.  If there's anything wrong 
with the memory, memtest86 will find it.  It's never wrong - memory 
suppliers generally accept its results as justifying an RMA.

>1) heard grinding noises and then...
>2) randomly rebooted and then...
>3) displayed "the system has recovered from a serious error." on reboot.
>
>The machine is VERY SLOW now. It boots, but everything is SLOW.
>
>I downloaded DSL linux and got smartmontools to report the drive's 
>health and SMART says the drive is failing and expected to fail in 24 hours.

Yeah, that makes sense.  Noises that are described as grinding, 
slapping, springy, etc. are almost always a drive dying 
quickly.  Spontaneous re-boots in a previously OK system are also 
usually a drive problem, unless the user has fried something through 
a static electricity injection.

>So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking 
>attach another hard disk and performing:
># dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
>
>will that work?

Maybe.  You're going to copy every sector of the disk that way, even 
the unused ones.  If you get any errors, you won't have any idea 
whether they're in freespace (good) or in files (bad).  It will 
probably go pretty fast, at least if the drive isn't too sick to copy 
at all.  If you hear funny noises or if it seems really slow, the 
drive is probably beyond help.

>what would you do?

Start by turning the machine off.  Let the drive cool down and 
"relax" - you may find it reads better afterwards (but not for long).

I'd boot a BartPE CD with both the new and old drives installed, and 
try to copy the files from the old disk to the new one.  That way you 
only try to read the sectors you absolutely have to read.  Every 
second of activity on the old disk is another second it gets closer 
to death, and you shouldn't waste any of them.  Don't copy anything 
you can avoid, at least not if it's large (e.g., Windows swapfile, 
Internet Explorer/Firefox/whatever browser cache).  Copy the most 
important things first (e.g., \Documents and Settings, everything but 
\Windows) in case the drive dies before you can finish.

Good luck.  And tell your boss you need a large USB 2.0 external disk 
drive (at least twice the size of the largest disk in your shop) and 
a copy of Acronis True Image (http://www.acronis.com/) sitting on the 
shelf ready to go for the next time this happens.  When a drive gets 
sick, there is no time to waste.  Practice a bare-metal 
disk-copy-and-restore using a spare machine and this setup over and 
over until you can start it up and go get coffee and feel comfortable 
that it will succeed.

You do drink coffee, right?  You're a sysadmin - if you don't, you'd 
better start :-)

Ross 


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From dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com  Fri May 26 20:57:59 2006
From: dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com (Dave Ashby)
Date: Fri May 26 22:48:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive, how to mirror?
In-Reply-To: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060526135010.14423.qmail@web50801.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4477A417.90304@1993.usna.com>

Brandon-
You might want to give SpinRite a try. I've heard good things about it, 
but haven't had to use it myself.
See the link here: http://www.grc.com/sr/testimonials.htm

I came across it because the guy who wrote SR is also the tech geek 
behind the "Security Now!" podcast (which I highly recommend it to any 
podcast junkies like myself). To me SR is worth the (relatively low) 
cost if it does nothing else but help him keep SecurityNow going......

Hope this is useful....
-dave


Brandon Saxe wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just recently became a sysadmin at a small company (windows shop, 
> mainly), so I have much to learn....
>
> Anyway, a user reported problems with a WinXP workstation, noting that 
> it had
> 1) heard grinding noises and then...
> 2) randomly rebooted and then...
> 3) displayed "the system has recovered from a serious error." on reboot.
>
> The machine is VERY SLOW now. It boots, but everything is SLOW.
>
> I downloaded DSL linux and got smartmontools to report the drive's 
> health and SMART says the drive is failing and expected to fail in 24 
> hours.
>
> So, what's the best way to get data off this drive? I was thinking 
> attach another hard disk and performing:
> # dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
>
> will that work? what would you do? I really don't want to have to copy 
> individual files and rebuild the Windows install if i can avoid it.
>
> Thanks!
>   Brandon
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>   

From bdalzell at qis.net  Sat May 27 11:32:30 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Sat May 27 11:32:33 2006
Subject: [novalug] failing hard drive - replacement tips
In-Reply-To: <20060527002850.44797.qmail@web50815.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605271128220.8986-100000@eclipse>

In the past I have had the experience of purchasing a whole box of loose
scsi harddrives (really chaep) and finding that a number of them were bad
but also within warreentee. i did not have to be the original owner to get
them replaced. the various companies had on line places to go and get a
return authorization number based on the moel number and serial number.
The only problems I had were (1) It would take up to 3 months to get the
replacement and (2) The companies were very picky about how the drives
were packed to ship back to them. Now I save harddrive packing boxes. So
for $3 in posting and an original purchase price that was a fraction of
the value of the drive I got a couple of thousand dollars worth of new
scsi drives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From jholmblad at aol.com  Sat May 27 14:50:16 2006
From: jholmblad at aol.com (John B. Holmblad)
Date: Sat May 27 15:50:13 2006
Subject: [novalug] [Fwd: [maemo-developers] Presentation to Local LUG]
Message-ID: <44789F68.6080505@aol.com>

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_______________________________________________
maemo-developers mailing list
maemo-developers@maemo.org
https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

From lerner-dave at zai.com  Sat May 27 20:56:36 2006
From: lerner-dave at zai.com (David Lerner)
Date: Sat May 27 22:03:53 2006
Subject: [novalug] Formatting a hard drive
In-Reply-To: <052520060151.26219.44750D8A0006660E0000666B22070210539A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
References: <052520060151.26219.44750D8A0006660E0000666B22070210539A9C05CD0ECE@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4478F544.2070403@zai.com>

A few years ago I purchased a license for a Windows XP driver that 
allows ext2 file systems to be mounted as read/write Windows drives. 
The original driver works with some occasional problems. Cost is $40. An 
  updated version of the driver has been available for a long time but I 
have not tried it. The documentation for the updated version claims to 
provide read/write access for NTFS partitions from Linux. I plan to give 
it a try.
The web link is: http://www.mount-everything.com/home/personal/


The ext2 file system provides a way of sharing files between Linux and 
Windows that exceed 2Gb. A fat partition will serve this purpose for 
files less than 2GB. A NTFS partition allows one-way transfers from 
Windows to Linux. DVD iso files were the driving force that let me to 
purchase this program. At the time, I wanted to download image files 
with wget and then burn then with Nero. Now I user k3b and burn the 
images with Linux.

Dave

1a2ksu@comcast.net wrote:
> I found this a while ago:
>  
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd
>  
> It's an ext2 file system driver for NT/2K/XP. I haven't tried it yet but 
> it looks promising.
>  
> -Brian
>  
>  
> 
>      > I'll back up everyone who says if you need to read and write it on
>      > Windows, you're stuck with VFAT.
From greg at pryzby.org  Sun May 28 08:36:10 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Sun May 28 08:42:02 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
Message-ID: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>

Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
sided is fine)?

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From rich.goodwin at cox.net  Sun May 28 08:52:27 2006
From: rich.goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin)
Date: Sun May 28 09:26:08 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <1148820747.6641.6.camel@BigTux>

I bought 100 single layer DVD-R's at CompUSA and Office Depot on sale
for $20/$30.  Both work fine with my Tivo.   The DVD+R was the same
price but is not compatible with my Tivo.....

Rich

On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 08:36 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
> sided is fine)?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
-- 

GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu

Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant.

              They run Windows don't they!!
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From greg at pryzby.org  Sun May 28 08:42:23 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Sun May 28 09:39:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] June Topic(s)
Message-ID: <20060528124223.GA4663@pryzby.org>

I am working with a speaker to line something up, but chances are it
won't take the entire time.

Would there be an interest in a LAPTOP install/tweakfest? 

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From lerner-dave at zai.com  Sun May 28 09:46:49 2006
From: lerner-dave at zai.com (David Lerner)
Date: Sun May 28 10:32:23 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <4479A9C9.7080503@zai.com>

Is $0.20 per DVD OK? Office Depot  has their own brand on sale this 
week. 100 pack of + or - for $19.99. No rebate.

Dave

gregory pryzby wrote:
> Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
> sided is fine)?
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Sun May 28 14:14:03 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Sun May 28 14:40:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <200605281414.03639.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Sun May 28 2006 8:36 am, gregory pryzby wrote:
> Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
> sided is fine)?

I picked up a pack of fifty at Microcenter. The brand name is 
"Arita" (never heard of them) and the price worked out to $0.24 each. 
I've gone through half the pack with no problems.

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From juliac at patriot.net  Sun May 28 15:36:57 2006
From: juliac at patriot.net (Julia Christianson)
Date: Sun May 28 15:37:18 2006
Subject: [novalug] June Topic(s)
In-Reply-To: <20060528124223.GA4663@pryzby.org>
References: <20060528124223.GA4663@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <4479FBD9.3030407@patriot.net>

gregory pryzby wrote:
> I am working with a speaker to line something up, but chances are it
> won't take the entire time.
> 
> Would there be an interest in a LAPTOP install/tweakfest? 

IMHO tweakfest would be more interesting than install ... but also IMHO
there's no reason the presentation Has to last until noon -- earlier
finish means more time to chat in the parking lot ... maybe even with a
vat of lemonade on someone's tailgate?  (Assuming that would be ok with
the powers that be.)

-- Julia
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Sun May 28 15:40:24 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Sun May 28 16:07:11 2006
Subject: [novalug] June Topic(s)
In-Reply-To: <4479FBD9.3030407@patriot.net>
References: <20060528124223.GA4663@pryzby.org> <4479FBD9.3030407@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <200605281540.24990.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Sun May 28 2006 3:36 pm, Julia Christianson wrote:
> gregory pryzby wrote:
> > I am working with a speaker to line something up, but chances are it
> > won't take the entire time.
> >
> > Would there be an interest in a LAPTOP install/tweakfest?
>
> IMHO tweakfest would be more interesting than install ... but also
> IMHO there's no reason the presentation Has to last until noon --
> earlier finish means more time to chat in the parking lot ... maybe
> even with a vat of lemonade on someone's tailgate?  (Assuming that
> would be ok with the powers that be.)
>
> -- Julia

Tailgate parties remind me of another topic...

Anybody up for a picnic some time this summer?

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From kevinchin5 at gmail.com  Sun May 28 17:24:37 2006
From: kevinchin5 at gmail.com (Kevin Chin)
Date: Sun May 28 18:28:16 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <c30b32bb0605281424l734dfa1sf13ce81bc42f3d21@mail.gmail.com>

My favorite source is...  http://www.supermediastore.com  You'll need to buy
in bulk however.  I've had very good experiences with both the Ritek and
Verbatim brands.

TTYL.
--Kc


On 5/28/06, gregory pryzby <greg@pryzby.org> wrote:
>
> Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
> sided is fine)?
>
> --
> greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
> fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFEeZk6wVZrBISfqG8RAvBXAJ91n0DZoa9JtfFrqHxlVnooawiJLACeKiYg
> 8F1NnhEJ8BZUBszXO2uNBfI=
> =qXrj
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
>
>
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From rich.goodwin at cox.net  Sun May 28 17:47:35 2006
From: rich.goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin)
Date: Sun May 28 19:02:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] June Topic(s)
In-Reply-To: <200605281540.24990.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <20060528124223.GA4663@pryzby.org> <4479FBD9.3030407@patriot.net>
	<200605281540.24990.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <1148852855.6641.9.camel@BigTux>

Timing is perfect .... How does August 19th sound??  I want to discuss
the Linux picnic at the June meeting.  

Rich

On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 15:40 -0400, Dan Arico wrote:
> On Sun May 28 2006 3:36 pm, Julia Christianson wrote:
> > gregory pryzby wrote:
> > > I am working with a speaker to line something up, but chances are it
> > > won't take the entire time.
> > >
> > > Would there be an interest in a LAPTOP install/tweakfest?
> >
> > IMHO tweakfest would be more interesting than install ... but also
> > IMHO there's no reason the presentation Has to last until noon --
> > earlier finish means more time to chat in the parking lot ... maybe
> > even with a vat of lemonade on someone's tailgate?  (Assuming that
> > would be ok with the powers that be.)
> >
> > -- Julia
> 
> Tailgate parties remind me of another topic...
> 
> Anybody up for a picnic some time this summer?
> 
> Dan Arico
> 
-- 

GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu

Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant.

              They run Windows don't they!!
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From jbfrazer at verizon.net  Sun May 28 23:56:50 2006
From: jbfrazer at verizon.net (Jim Frazer)
Date: Mon May 29 00:57:07 2006
Subject: [novalug] DVD Longenvity
Message-ID: <200605282356.50591.jbfrazer@verizon.net>

I recently had a user (er.. Customer), state that the DVD they had sent 
offsite only a few years ago, came back unreadable.  This was proven across 
multiple machines, and multiple DVD's from the same lot.  

What I am concerned about is long-term archival of data.  Is DVD the right 
media?   Does the vendor of media matter, an if so, to what degree?

Thanks!

Jim.
From stuart at gathman.org  Mon May 29 09:59:10 2006
From: stuart at gathman.org (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon May 29 11:07:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] DVD Longenvity
In-Reply-To: <200605282356.50591.jbfrazer@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605290956070.23315-100000@fairfax.gathman.org>

On Sun, 28 May 2006, Jim Frazer wrote:

> What I am concerned about is long-term archival of data.  Is DVD the right 
> media?   Does the vendor of media matter, an if so, to what degree?

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/StabilityStudy.pdf

http://www.loc.gov/preserv/care/record.html

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart@bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.

From kevin at druffs.com  Mon May 29 12:18:04 2006
From: kevin at druffs.com (Kevin Druff)
Date: Mon May 29 12:17:40 2006
Subject: [novalug] Network cards
Message-ID: <447B1EBC.4040106@druffs.com>

Does anyone out there have any extra 10/100 cards lying around they 
might be willing to donate for a linux related project? We're working to 
convert old Windows 98 machines into Linux machines for our volunteers 
to use.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Kevin Druff
James Webb for U.S. Senate
(703) 778-4080x205
http://www.webbforsenate.com
kevin@webbforsenate.com

From bdalzell at qis.net  Mon May 29 12:30:15 2006
From: bdalzell at qis.net (Bonnie Dalzell)
Date: Mon May 29 12:58:46 2006
Subject: [novalug] Network cards
In-Reply-To: <447B1EBC.4040106@druffs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0605291229100.16179-100000@eclipse>

Computer Renaissance often has used cards very cheap - that is in the $5
to $10 range. Have you thought to ask them? We have one near us and I
could ask them. How many do you need?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       Bonnie Dalzell, MA 
mail:5100 Hydes Rd ---- Hydes MD USA 21082-----EMAIL:bdalzell@qis.net
 
freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.
 
Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/          BUSINESS http://www.batw.com


From JECottrell3 at comcast.net  Mon May 29 17:30:26 2006
From: JECottrell3 at comcast.net (James Ewing Cottrell 3rd)
Date: Mon May 29 17:45:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <1148820747.6641.6.camel@BigTux>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
	<1148820747.6641.6.camel@BigTux>
Message-ID: <447B67F2.7000207@Comcast.NET>

Rich Goodwin wrote:

>I bought 100 single layer DVD-R's at CompUSA
>
DO NOT use the - format. It sucks. Use the + format.

DO NOT ask me why. Google for it.

JIM

> and Office Depot on sale
>for $20/$30.  Both work fine with my Tivo.   The DVD+R was the same
>price but is not compatible with my Tivo.....
>
>Rich
>
>On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 08:36 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
>  
>
>>Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
>>sided is fine)?
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>    
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>    
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 5/29/2006
>>    
>>

From rich.goodwin at cox.net  Mon May 29 18:14:52 2006
From: rich.goodwin at cox.net (Rich Goodwin)
Date: Mon May 29 18:35:05 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <447B67F2.7000207@Comcast.NET>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
	<1148820747.6641.6.camel@BigTux>  <447B67F2.7000207@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <1148940893.15877.22.camel@BigTux>

I respectfully beg to differ.  The DVD-R format is standards base.  The
+R is a bastardization of the standards.  More importantly, the Tivo I
have will only use the -R and the +/- RW.  +R is _NOT_ compatible - Tivo
rejects it since the burner is _NOT_ a +R burner.

Key point is to match the media to the burner.  +R wil work with the
Winderz systems.  -R is more compatible with stand alone DVD players -
based on the readings I found.  Of course, these may have been
dated .... YMMV

Rich

On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 17:30 -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> Rich Goodwin wrote:
> 
> >I bought 100 single layer DVD-R's at CompUSA
> >
> DO NOT use the - format. It sucks. Use the + format.
> 
> DO NOT ask me why. Google for it.
> 
> JIM
> 
> > and Office Depot on sale
> >for $20/$30.  Both work fine with my Tivo.   The DVD+R was the same
> >price but is not compatible with my Tivo.....
> >
> >Rich
> >
> >On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 08:36 -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Anyone know where I can get some 'cheap' dvds to burn ISOs to (single
> >>sided is fine)?
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>novalug mailing list
> >>novalug@tux.org
> >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> >>    
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>novalug mailing list
> >>novalug@tux.org
> >>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> >>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> >>    
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 5/29/2006
> >>    
> >>
> 
-- 

GPG/PGP Key Id: 1B257AEC from pgp.mit.edu

Remember, all Windows machines are, by definition, fault tolerant.

              They run Windows don't they!!
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From knott at civilized.com  Mon May 29 17:46:13 2006
From: knott at civilized.com (Gary Knott)
Date: Mon May 29 18:41:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] piping to ls
Message-ID: <447B6BA5.9020108@civilized.com>

When I run: "locate ctext.sty", I get a list of resulting files,
one per line, with full paths prefixed.  But
when I run "locate ctext.sty | ls -l"
to get the dates and sizes of these files, I instead
get the ls of my current directory.  What am I
misunderstanding?

Thanks,
-- 
==============================================================
| Spoken: Gary D. Knott      Email: knott@civilized.com       |
| Phone: (301) 962-3711      MIME mail welcome                |
|                                                             |
| web: www.civilized.com  (Please look at our HomePage!)      |
| USPS: Civilized Software Inc., 12109 Heritage Park Circle,  |
|       Silver Spring, Maryland 20906, USA                    |
==============================================================

From kevin at pheared.net  Mon May 29 18:50:12 2006
From: kevin at pheared.net (Kevin Dwyer)
Date: Mon May 29 18:50:28 2006
Subject: [novalug] piping to ls
In-Reply-To: <447B6BA5.9020108@civilized.com>
References: <447B6BA5.9020108@civilized.com>
Message-ID: <20060529225011.GD30086@bowser.pheared.net>

ls doesn't take a list of files on standard input.  You could change it
around and do: ls -l `locate ctext.sty | xargs`

-kpd

On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 05:46:13PM -0400, Gary Knott wrote:
> When I run: "locate ctext.sty", I get a list of resulting files,
> one per line, with full paths prefixed.  But
> when I run "locate ctext.sty | ls -l"
> to get the dates and sizes of these files, I instead
> get the ls of my current directory.  What am I
> misunderstanding?
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> ==============================================================
> | Spoken: Gary D. Knott      Email: knott@civilized.com       |
> | Phone: (301) 962-3711      MIME mail welcome                |
> |                                                             |
> | web: www.civilized.com  (Please look at our HomePage!)      |
> | USPS: Civilized Software Inc., 12109 Heritage Park Circle,  |
> |       Silver Spring, Maryland 20906, USA                    |
> ==============================================================
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
From clif at cflynt.com  Mon May 29 18:54:23 2006
From: clif at cflynt.com (Clif Flynt)
Date: Mon May 29 18:54:46 2006
Subject: [novalug] piping to ls
Message-ID: <20060529225423.GA11319@clif.cflynt.com>

On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 05:46:13PM -0400, Gary Knott wrote:
> When I run: "locate ctext.sty", I get a list of resulting files,
> one per line, with full paths prefixed.  But
> when I run "locate ctext.sty | ls -l"
> to get the dates and sizes of these files, I instead
> get the ls of my current directory.  What am I
> misunderstanding?
> 

A pipe sends the output of one program to the input of the
next.  This is great with applicatios like sed, grep or mail 
that read input and process it.

The ls program takes command line arguments and processes those.
It does not read from standard input (or any file).

The back-tic (`) will take the output from one program and 
replaces the backtic'd text with that output.  This lets you use
it as a command line for another application.

What you want to do with ls is:
ls -l `locate ctext.sty`

Clif

-- 
.... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
..13th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference:  Oct 9-13, 2006,  Chicago, IL ..
.............  http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2006/  ............


From djr1952 at hotpop.com  Mon May 29 18:14:39 2006
From: djr1952 at hotpop.com (donjr)
Date: Mon May 29 19:14:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] cheap dvd source?
In-Reply-To: <447B67F2.7000207@Comcast.NET>
References: <20060528123610.GR17550@pryzby.org>
	<1148820747.6641.6.camel@BigTux>  <447B67F2.7000207@Comcast.NET>
Message-ID: <1148940879.9129.172.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Why? And make it a good reason to override the following.

Some DVD drives cannot read the '+' format type disks.

I have DVD writers that can handle both type disks, but some of my read
only drives can only handle the '-' format type disks.

On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 17:30 -0400, James Ewing Cottrell 3rd wrote:
> Rich Goodwin wrote:
> 
> >I bought 100 single layer DVD-R's at CompUSA
> >
> DO NOT use the - format. It sucks. Use the + format.
> 
> DO NOT ask me why. Google for it.
> 
> JIM

-- 
--
--
Don E. Groves, Jr.

$ mailstat
Most people don't type their own logfiles; but, what do I care?
From mstone at mathom.us  Mon May 29 20:32:48 2006
From: mstone at mathom.us (Michael Stone)
Date: Mon May 29 21:33:04 2006
Subject: [novalug] piping to ls
In-Reply-To: <20060529225423.GA11319@clif.cflynt.com>
References: <20060529225423.GA11319@clif.cflynt.com>
Message-ID: <20060530003246.GW27471@mathom.us>

On Mon, May 29, 2006 at 06:54:23PM -0400, Clif Flynt wrote:
>What you want to do with ls is:
>ls -l `locate ctext.sty`

That syntax is subject to the limit on the number of arguments to a 
command. This is not:

locate -0 ctext.sty | xargs -0 ls -l

Note that the output won't be ordered. You can pipe it through sort if 
that's important.

Mike Stone

From dac at cafaro.net  Mon May 29 23:41:45 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Tue May 30 00:44:41 2006
Subject: [novalug] Clearing out old Hardware
Message-ID: <1148960505.3833.22.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>

I've got some old hardware I've decided to get rid of.  I'll bring it to
the meeting this Saturday. Both work with Linux. See below for more
information:


1. Cannon BJC-50 Portable Color Inkjet Printer - $40 or Best Offer
This is an old printer, but worked fine last time I used it (over a year
ago).  It may need new print nozzles/cartridges or a cleaning since it
may have dried up some.  It prints via parallel or infrared.  It has a
lithium battery, but not sure how good a charge it holds anymore.  It
also includes the IS-12 color scanning cartridge, a spare black
cartridge (unopened), and a spare cartridge case.  I don't know if the
scanner part works with Linux, I never tried.  


2. Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 PDA - $60 or Best Offer
This was retired when I bought my Treo.  Currently has OpenZaurus Opie
OS on it, can be flashed back to stock or one of many others (you need a
compact flash card at least 32MB in size to flash new OS to it).  Works
fine, but needs a new battery (doesn't hold a charge for very long).
Currently has a stick on screen protector on it, but you may want to
replace it as it's done it's job well over the years.  Includes a 64MB
and a 128MB SanDisk SecureDigital card, A leather Case, a Netgear MA701
802.11b CF Wireless Card, and two docks/chargers.


If you are interested in it then just send me an email.  I'll either
take the best offer I receive, or the first person who offers my asking
price.  They should both work, and I'll try and help you as much as
possible if you run into issues, but these are both sold as is.

Thanks

-- 
David A. Cafaro
dac(at)cafaro.net
Tech to Admin: "I thought I did plug that in..."

From greg at pryzby.org  Tue May 30 08:01:53 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Tue May 30 08:02:41 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS 
Message-ID: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>

I remember a thread about NAS for storage and backup.

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10396259&adid=17653&dcaid=17653

I am not affliated w/ Buy.Com, just a very satisified customer.

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Tue May 30 09:26:54 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Tue May 30 09:53:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS
In-Reply-To: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
References: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <200605300926.54299.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Tue May 30 2006 8:01 am, gregory pryzby wrote:
> I remember a thread about NAS for storage and backup.
>
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10396259&adid=17653&dcaid=17
>653
>
> I am not affliated w/ Buy.Com, just a very satisified customer.

I've never used one of these before. I assume it plugs into the network. 
How do you interface with it? Is it a server using NFS or what?

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From seitz at bsd-unix.net  Tue May 30 10:14:38 2006
From: seitz at bsd-unix.net (Bryan Seitz)
Date: Tue May 30 10:35:17 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS
In-Reply-To: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
References: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
Message-ID: <20060530141438.GA65061@bsd-unix.net>

Read the reviews before you decide to buy one btw, sposedly has horrible 
transfer speeds :(

On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 08:01:53AM -0400, gregory pryzby wrote:
> I remember a thread about NAS for storage and backup.
> 
> http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10396259&adid=17653&dcaid=17653
> 
> I am not affliated w/ Buy.Com, just a very satisified customer.
> 
> -- 
> greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
> fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F



> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page


-- 
             
Bryan G. Seitz

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May 30 11:57:04 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May 30 11:57:09 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>


 	Apologies for any duplication : I sent this yesterday 
from my other account, which is supposed to be subscribed but set 
to nomail, and it hasn't appeared yet afaict.

 	On the FC5 machine where Gnome still doesn't work right, 
I'm running a KDE desktop with Gnome-terminal invoked from a KDE 
console. Trying to type an ordinary email just now, my gd 
trifocal fingers and arthritic eyeballs managed for the umpteenth 
time to hit some intended keystroke I didn't see.

 	Usually if kludgily I can find some way to recover. But 
this confounded thing enlarged the terminal to *full* full screen 
-- not just maximized, but so big it hides the panels and all.

 	There's nothing to left-click on, and right-clicking gets 
me nothing that will help, even just by getting to a normal 
workspace whence I can try something as root.

 	How the blankety-blank-blank do I force the fool thing to 
go back to intermediate size, or at least to a size where I can 
get at its corners to resize or if need be close it??

 	I'd rather not use one of the *big* hammers -- 
Ctrl-Alt-Backspace or Ctrl-Alt-Delete -- if I can help it. (I 
have a bunch of things open on that machine.) But if those are 
all I can still do, at least I want to knkow as much -- and how 
not to have it re-open the same way next time I log in. (I have 
it set to retain settings, and the workspace with the terminal is 
the one it normally opens to.)

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Tue May 30 12:05:44 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Tue May 30 12:32:30 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <200605301205.44159.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

On Tue May 30 2006 11:57 am, Beartooth wrote:
>  	Apologies for any duplication : I sent this yesterday
> from my other account, which is supposed to be subscribed but set
> to nomail, and it hasn't appeared yet afaict.
>
>  	On the FC5 machine where Gnome still doesn't work right,
> I'm running a KDE desktop with Gnome-terminal invoked from a KDE
> console. Trying to type an ordinary email just now, my gd
> trifocal fingers and arthritic eyeballs managed for the umpteenth
> time to hit some intended keystroke I didn't see.
>
>  	Usually if kludgily I can find some way to recover. But
> this confounded thing enlarged the terminal to *full* full screen
> -- not just maximized, but so big it hides the panels and all.

Sounds like you changed the screen size by hitting <Ctrl><Alt><+>. Try 
hitting <Ctrl><Alt><->.  (That's the '-' on the keypad.)

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From rosejw at speakeasy.net  Tue May 30 12:06:34 2006
From: rosejw at speakeasy.net (rosejw@speakeasy.net)
Date: Tue May 30 12:33:22 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
Message-ID: <W50915127281541149005194@webmail2>

Usually holding down the <ALT> key and then click and drag anywhere on the window you want to move.  I suggest moving down so you can get access to menues or resize buttons at the time of the window.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beartooth [mailto:karhunhammas@Lserv.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 03:57 PM
> To: 'Novalug'
> Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
> 
> 
>  	Apologies for any duplication : I sent this yesterday 
> from my other account, which is supposed to be subscribed but set 
> to nomail, and it hasn't appeared yet afaict.
> 
>  	On the FC5 machine where Gnome still doesn't work right, 
> I'm running a KDE desktop with Gnome-terminal invoked from a KDE 
> console. Trying to type an ordinary email just now, my gd 
> trifocal fingers and arthritic eyeballs managed for the umpteenth 
> time to hit some intended keystroke I didn't see.
> 
>  	Usually if kludgily I can find some way to recover. But 
> this confounded thing enlarged the terminal to *full* full screen 
> -- not just maximized, but so big it hides the panels and all.
> 
>  	There's nothing to left-click on, and right-clicking gets 
> me nothing that will help, even just by getting to a normal 
> workspace whence I can try something as root.
> 
>  	How the blankety-blank-blank do I force the fool thing to 
> go back to intermediate size, or at least to a size where I can 
> get at its corners to resize or if need be close it??
> 
>  	I'd rather not use one of the *big* hammers -- 
> Ctrl-Alt-Backspace or Ctrl-Alt-Delete -- if I can help it. (I 
> have a bunch of things open on that machine.) But if those are 
> all I can still do, at least I want to knkow as much -- and how 
> not to have it re-open the same way next time I log in. (I have 
> it set to retain settings, and the workspace with the terminal is 
> the one it normally opens to.)
> 
> -- 
> Beartooth Staffwright,
> Wordcrafty Squirreler
> Venato ergo sum.
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May 30 13:22:38 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May 30 13:22:47 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
In-Reply-To: <200605301205.44159.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
	<200605301205.44159.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605301020270.16584@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 30 May 2006, Dan Arico wrote:

>>  	Usually if kludgily I can find some way to recover. But 
>> this confounded thing enlarged the terminal to *full* full 
>> screen -- not just maximized, but so big it hides the panels 
>> and all.
>
> Sounds like you changed the screen size by hitting 
> <Ctrl><Alt><+>. Try hitting <Ctrl><Alt><->.  (That's the '-' on 
> the keypad.)

 	Well, I tried it, with both '-' keys. One of them gave me 
"(arg -1)" and I tried hitting enter, but that didn't work, 
either. I also tried <Ctrl><Alt><+>, thinking it might be a 
toggle. No joy.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue May 30 13:28:11 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue May 30 13:28:16 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
In-Reply-To: <W50915127281541149005194@webmail2>
References: <W50915127281541149005194@webmail2>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605301025330.16584@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 30 May 2006, rosejw@speakeasy.net wrote:

> Usually holding down the <ALT> key and then click and drag 
> anywhere on the window you want to move.  I suggest moving down 
> so you can get access to menues or resize buttons at the time 
> of the window.

 	Not with Alt, nor Shift, nor Escape, nor CTRL, nor any 
two together, nor ever with Ctrl-Alt-Shift. Several turned the 
cursor into two crossed double arrows, as if it wanted to do 
that; and one opened some sort of KDE system guard, which offered 
to let me change niceness level; but nothing about moving nor 
resizing the terminal.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From keith.casey at gmail.com  Tue May 30 10:43:03 2006
From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Tue May 30 16:19:09 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS
In-Reply-To: <20060530141438.GA65061@bsd-unix.net>
References: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
	<20060530141438.GA65061@bsd-unix.net>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0605300743q2c551999s7c0c7c11fd121e90@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/30/06, Bryan Seitz <seitz@bsd-unix.net> wrote:
> Read the reviews before you decide to buy one btw, sposedly has horrible
> transfer speeds :(

I was just looking at that... it appears to cap out at 100 which makes
it fine for most stuff as long as you're not pushing video.

I just picked up a simple enclosure and a 160gb drive from Microcenter
on Saturday...  it's usb2 so the initial mass-backup was painful, but
the rest of them should be relatively painless.

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com

2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
- http://dcphpconference.com/
From LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info  Tue May 30 16:44:05 2006
From: LUG-Member at TheMoreIKnow.info (Bernie Hoefer)
Date: Tue May 30 17:31:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <447CAE95.6040209@TheMoreIKnow.info>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Beartooth wrote:
===
> On the FC5 machine where Gnome still doesn't work right, I'm running 
> a KDE desktop with Gnome-terminal invoked from a KDE console.
===
> But this confounded thing enlarged the terminal to *full* full
> screen -- not just maximized, but so big it hides the panels and
> all.
===
     To get in and out of full screen mode from GNOME Terminal, press
the F11 key.  I found this out by opening a gnome-terminal on my
computer and looking through the menus.  (It was under the View menu.)
     I know you said that right-clicking doesn't do anything.  That is
strange.  When I right-click on my gnome-terminal, I get a drop-down
menu with "Show Menubar" being one of the options.  (This hides/unhides
the menu bar.)

- --
Bernie Hoefer
PGP e-mail is welcome!  Get my 1024 bit signature key from:
<http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x446A6F93>.
"The more I know, the more I realize how much I do not understand."

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)

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ri4gQO5mXUOkKAIwxiw52TQ=
=Nrq7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From daniel.junkmail at gmail.com  Tue May 30 10:16:04 2006
From: daniel.junkmail at gmail.com (Daniel Corbe)
Date: Tue May 30 19:09:08 2006
Subject: [novalug] PHP Coders
Message-ID: <cceb89df0605300716r13999b54ocfe38963e75682f3@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Novalug,

I was curious as to whether or not there are any PHP programmers out
there seeking full time employment with paid benefits.  This job would
be in Chantilly.

If so, please give me a shout.

dcorbe -AT- interceltelecoms -DOT- com

or call me at 786-206-5496
From keith.casey at gmail.com  Tue May 30 20:36:41 2006
From: keith.casey at gmail.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Tue May 30 20:36:50 2006
Subject: [novalug] PHP Coders
In-Reply-To: <cceb89df0605300716r13999b54ocfe38963e75682f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cceb89df0605300716r13999b54ocfe38963e75682f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0605301736q1208282dxb0910b49918c1d99@mail.gmail.com>

Daniel,

While there are a few lurking about here on novalug, you might check
out dcphp-dev:

http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dcphp-dev

There are about 200+ people and the vast majority seem to be local...

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com

2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
- http://dcphpconference.com/
From greg at pryzby.org  Tue May 30 21:55:17 2006
From: greg at pryzby.org (gregory pryzby)
Date: Tue May 30 21:56:14 2006
Subject: [novalug] [marsee@oreilly.com: UG News--Good. Fast. Cheap. O'Reilly
	Launches PDF Guides]
Message-ID: <20060531015517.GJ4663@pryzby.org>

I found this interesting and wanted to share.


----- Forwarded message from Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com> -----

To: greg@pryzby.org
From: Marsee Henon <marsee@oreilly.com>
Subject: UG News--Good. Fast. Cheap. O'Reilly Launches PDF Guides

Good. Fast. Cheap. O'Reilly Launches PDF Guides

As part of O'Reilly Media's commitment to delivering vital technology
information to people who need it, when they need it, O'Reilly is
launching an ongoing series of PDF publications to address cutting edge
technologies. O'Reilly's PDF guides are in-depth, immediate, timely, and
authoritative. Readers can purchase and download the PDFs through the
O'Reilly online store, with no restrictions on the ability to save, copy,
or print them.

The advantages to readers are numerous. O'Reilly authors can disseminate
crucial information as the need arises, without having to wait for enough
material to fill an entire book. Production time is reduced dramatically,
giving IT professionals and others immediate access to the knowledge they
want. Plus, readers can easily search the text, copy and paste handy bits
of code into their applications, and take the PDF with them even when
they're offline. But most importantly, readers won't have to compromise in
their pursuit of timely information--these PDFs provide the high-quality
content for which O'Reilly has come to be known.

This month's PDF offerings are available now:

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First popularized by the web sites Flickr, Technorati, and del.icio.us,
these amorphous clumps of words now appear on a slew of web sites as
visual evidence of their membership in the elite corps of "Web 2.0." This
PDF analyzes what is and isn't a tag cloud, offers design tips for using
them effectively, and then shows how to collect tags and display them in
the tag cloud format. Scripts are provided in Perl and PHP.
ISBN: 0-596-52794-2, 46 pages, $9.99 US, $12.99 CAN
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/tagclouds/


"Web Services on Rails" by Kevin Marshall
In recent years, web services have become increasingly useful to smaller
web site developers.  Thanks to standards like SOAP and XML-RPC as well as
frameworks such as Ruby on Rails, developers can easily create web service
clients and servers with fewer errors. This guide looks at how Ruby on
Rails makes building web service clients and servers simple and fun, with
plenty of working examples and code details so you can see just how
everything works.
ISBN: 0-596-52796-9, 32 pages, $9.99 US, $12.99 CA
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/websor/


"Atlas UpdatePanel Control" by Bertrand Le Roy and Matt Gibbs
The key to making ASP.NET applications more responsive to user input is
the UpdatePanel control. In this tutorial, you'll learn from the experts:
Bertrand Le Roy, UpdatePanel control's architect and developer, and Matt
Gibbs, Atlas dev team manager. This PDF document contains all you need to
get started implementing AJAX functionality in existing ASP.NET
applications.
ISBN: 0-596-52747-0, 56 pages, $9.99 US, $12.99 CA
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/atlasupc/


"Search Engine Optimization" by Harold Davis
SEO--short for Search Engine Optimization--is the art, craft, and science
of driving web traffic to web sites. Whether your web site depends on
broad, general traffic, or high-quality, targeted traffic, this PDF has
the tools and information you need to draw more traffic to your site, and
build your bottom line. You?ll learn how to effectively use PageRank and
Google itself--effective use of SEO means understanding how Google works:
how to boost placement in Google search results, how not to offend Google,
and how best to use paid Google programs. You?ll also learn how to best
organize your web pages and web sites, apply SEO analysis tools, establish
effective SEO best practices, and much more.
ISBN: 0-596-52786-1, 41 pages, $9.99 US, $12.99 CA
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/seo/


Other PDFs from O'Reilly can be found in the O'Reilly Store at:
http://pdfs.oreilly.com




================================================================
O'Reilly 
1005 Gravenstein Highway North  
Sebastopol, CA   95472
http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/
================================================================

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
greg pryzby                              greg at pryzby dot org
fingerprint: 8A1A DB90 869F 5DD1 D6E9 EEB6 C156 6B04 849F A86F
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From dan_arico at aricosystems.com  Tue May 30 22:18:55 2006
From: dan_arico at aricosystems.com (Dan Arico)
Date: Tue May 30 22:45:43 2006
Subject: [novalug] Qt
Message-ID: <200605302218.55968.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>

Does anyone have a book on Qt programming that I can borrow? Do we have 
one in the library?

Dan Arico

-- 
One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
From mezzenger at gmail.com  Tue May 30 23:30:28 2006
From: mezzenger at gmail.com (Alvin Smith)
Date: Tue May 30 23:55:32 2006
Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer
Message-ID: <974b10640605302030n4532adar2cac02dd2429dadb@mail.gmail.com>

I have been looking for an Open Source solution that will provide the
necessary interfaces and scripts etc for an Internet Cafe type setup.

So far I have only found commercial solutions such as the one here:
http://www.scripts.com/tools-and-utilities-scripts/networking-scripts/pay-as-you-go-internet-access-timer/

Is there anything else out there that could do the job?

Thanks,
Alvin
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From igor_birman at yahoo.com  Wed May 31 08:08:35 2006
From: igor_birman at yahoo.com (Igor Birman)
Date: Wed May 31 08:35:27 2006
Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer
In-Reply-To: <974b10640605302030n4532adar2cac02dd2429dadb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060531120835.28147.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com>

Have you looked at the ZoneCD?

http://www.publicip.net/zonecd/features.php

Igor


----- Original Message ----
From: Alvin Smith <mezzenger@gmail.com>
To: Northern VA Linux Users Group <novalug@tux.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:30:28 PM
Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer

I have been looking for an Open Source solution that will provide the necessary interfaces and scripts etc for an Internet Cafe type setup. 

So far I have only found commercial solutions such as the one here:
 http://www.scripts.com/tools-and-utilities-scripts/networking-scripts/pay-as-you-go-internet-access-timer/

Is there anything else out there that could do the job?

Thanks,
Alvin


_______________________________________________
novalug mailing list
novalug@tux.org
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page



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From merky_1 at yahoo.com  Wed May 31 08:24:45 2006
From: merky_1 at yahoo.com (Tom and Wendy)
Date: Wed May 31 08:48:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer
In-Reply-To: <974b10640605302030n4532adar2cac02dd2429dadb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <974b10640605302030n4532adar2cac02dd2429dadb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1149078285.6773.3.camel@amiga-gentoo.merky1.net>

On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 23:30 -0400, Alvin Smith wrote:
> I have been looking for an Open Source solution that will provide the
> necessary interfaces and scripts etc for an Internet Cafe type setup. 
> 
> So far I have only found commercial solutions such as the one here:
> http://www.scripts.com/tools-and-utilities-scripts/networking-scripts/pay-as-you-go-internet-access-timer/
> 
> Is there anything else out there that could do the job?
> 

This may not be in "real time", but it might give you a start:
http://www.ledge.co.za/software/squint/

From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed May 31 09:09:17 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed May 31 09:09:24 2006
Subject: [novalug] Aarrghh. Triple aarrghh. KDE/Gnome question
In-Reply-To: <447CAE95.6040209@TheMoreIKnow.info>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605300855250.16584@titan.lserv.com>
	<447CAE95.6040209@TheMoreIKnow.info>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0605310602050.16584@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 30 May 2006, Bernie Hoefer wrote:

> ===
>     To get in and out of full screen mode from GNOME Terminal, 
> press the F11 key.  I found this out by opening a 
> gnome-terminal on my computer and looking through the menus. 
> (It was under the View menu.)

 	That worked; many many thanks!

>     I know you said that right-clicking doesn't do anything.

 	I should have said it didn't do anything I found helpful.

> That is strange.  When I right-click on my gnome-terminal, I 
> get a drop-down menu with "Show Menubar" being one of the 
> options.  (This hides/unhides the menu bar.)

 	There was such an option -- a checkbox -- but checking it 
didn't solve the problem. Fwiw, mine is 2.14.1, and yum update 
gnome-terminal gets nothing.

 	Now if I can just get the rest of gnome to work, I can 
revert the machine I'm on now to mappery ....
-- 
Beartooth Staffwright,
Wordcrafty Squirreler
Venato ergo sum.
From vkbhaskar at yahoo.com  Wed May 31 09:22:48 2006
From: vkbhaskar at yahoo.com (bhaskar karambelkar)
Date: Wed May 31 09:42:56 2006
Subject: [novalug] Qt
In-Reply-To: <200605302218.55968.dan_arico@aricosystems.com>
Message-ID: <20060531132249.19389.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com>

Here is a PDF of Bruce Perens C++ programming with QT 3.
http://www.phptr.com/content/images/0131240722/downloads/blanchette_book.pdf

Check out other great books released under open source license at
http://www.phptr.com/promotions/promotion.asp?promo=1484&redir=1&rl=1

hope that helps
bhaskar

--- Dan Arico <dan_arico@aricosystems.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a book on Qt programming that I can borrow? Do we have 
> one in the library?
> 
> Dan Arico
> 
> -- 
> One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them,
> One OS to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them,
> In the land of Redmond, where the Sales Reps lie.
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 


best regards
bhaskar
http://www.bhaskarvk.info

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From elmurphree at verizon.net  Wed May 31 09:59:31 2006
From: elmurphree at verizon.net (elmurphree@verizon.net)
Date: Wed May 31 10:59:58 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
Message-ID: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>

Hi,

Once again I have been stiffed by Cox Cable. I have about 1200 email messages and an address book on their server. I want to move all this stuff to my computer's hard disk to archive it. I have been using their Web Mail, so I can access my email wherever I am. Web Mail  now looks like not an option but their only mode of operating.

The Cox tech help folks cannot deal with this. At all. Not something they support. Linux is apparently not the problem. They do not know how to do it under MS XP/Outlook Express either. The best they could come up with is to "move each message to MS Word and store that." Twelve hundred times!

Surely there is a simple solution that will allow me to do this under Linux. This is only transfering some files from one computer to another. Can anyone suggest something? Right now I'm too agitated to think clearly.

TIA

Lile
From mezzenger at gmail.com  Wed May 31 11:03:30 2006
From: mezzenger at gmail.com (Alvin Smith)
Date: Wed May 31 11:03:33 2006
Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer
In-Reply-To: <20060531120835.28147.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <974b10640605302030n4532adar2cac02dd2429dadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060531120835.28147.qmail@web60514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <974b10640605310803m138f7446i50b9af1b1defd34b@mail.gmail.com>

I will give ths a try.  Thanks!

On 5/31/06, Igor Birman <igor_birman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Have you looked at the ZoneCD?
>
> http://www.publicip.net/zonecd/features.php
>
> Igor
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Alvin Smith <mezzenger@gmail.com>
> To: Northern VA Linux Users Group <novalug@tux.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:30:28 PM
> Subject: [novalug] Internet Access Timer
>
> I have been looking for an Open Source solution that will provide the
> necessary interfaces and scripts etc for an Internet Cafe type setup.
>
> So far I have only found commercial solutions such as the one here:
>
> http://www.scripts.com/tools-and-utilities-scripts/networking-scripts/pay-as-you-go-internet-access-timer/
>
> Is there anything else out there that could do the job?
>
> Thanks,
> Alvin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
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From vkbhaskar at yahoo.com  Wed May 31 10:38:47 2006
From: vkbhaskar at yahoo.com (bhaskar karambelkar)
Date: Wed May 31 11:05:35 2006
Subject: [novalug] Kernel Magic SysRq Key
Message-ID: <20060531143847.58271.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>

has this ever worked for anyone ?
I have been enabling this option for years, and never once has it worked
when the kernel has locked up 
the documentation says, kernel will respond no matter what it's doing, unless
it's completely locked up. But it has never worked for me.
I guess every time my kernel locks up, it is beyond hope.


best regards
bhaskar
http://www.bhaskarvk.info

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
From bones at necrobones.net  Wed May 31 11:30:22 2006
From: bones at necrobones.net (Ed T. Toton III)
Date: Wed May 31 11:57:14 2006
Subject: [novalug] Kernel Magic SysRq Key
In-Reply-To: <20060531143847.58271.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060531143847.58271.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0605311128110.21709@reaper.necrobones.net>

Thus spake bhaskar karambelkar:

> has this ever worked for anyone ?
> I have been enabling this option for years, and never once has it worked
> when the kernel has locked up
> the documentation says, kernel will respond no matter what it's doing, unless
> it's completely locked up. But it has never worked for me.
> I guess every time my kernel locks up, it is beyond hope.

Yes, we've used it successfully with our KVM-over-IP setup. So far on most 
of the occasions where a power-cycle would be required, we've managed to 
save ourselves a trip to the datacenter with the magic reboot. Works like 
a charm.



------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ed T. Toton III -- http://necrobones.com/ - http://ed.toton.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------
   "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything
    that can be counted counts."
                                      -- Albert Einstein

From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Wed May 31 11:12:48 2006
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Wed May 31 12:09:38 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0605310812w58ccd994rb9862c50a73e0c77@mail.gmail.com>

What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are some
results for you:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search

You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com

2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
- http://dcphpconference.com/
From stuart at gathman.org  Wed May 31 12:08:47 2006
From: stuart at gathman.org (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed May 31 12:13:49 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605311158510.11323-100000@fairfax.gathman.org>

On Wed, 31 May 2006 elmurphree@verizon.net wrote:

> Once again I have been stiffed by Cox Cable. I have about 1200 email messages
> and an address book on their server. I want to move all this stuff to my
> computer's hard disk to archive it. I have been using their Web Mail, so I
> can access my email wherever I am. Web Mail  now looks like not an option but
> their only mode of operating.

Cox Internet access is actually pretty good.  What you need to ignore
is their email service.  Get your own domain and receive your own email.
While the intent of the AUP ban on "servers" is clearly *web* servers
(which would eat up precious upload bandwidth), if you are worried about it
hire an SMTP relay service - or pay Cox $25 extra a month for a fixed
IP and lifting of most AUP restrictions.

Getting your own domain

  I use http://domainsmadeeasy.com

Since you won't have a fixed IP (unless you pay Cox $25/mo), you'll
need DNS service.  There are free services, but I suggest
  http://dnsmadeeasy.com
  http://nettica.com

Nettica uses Microsoft servers, and hence is broken for some
DNS features, notably rDNS - but with a dynamic IP you won't have rDNS.

I run sendmail 8.13.6 with pymilter http://pymilter.sourceforge.net
Use dovecot-1.0.beta8 or later.

Many people claim postfix is easier to setup and administer than sendmail.

> Surely there is a simple solution that will allow me to do this under Linux.
> This is only transfering some files from one computer to another. Can anyone
> suggest something? Right now I'm too agitated to think clearly.

Your Cox email is in a black hole.  If you want to stop filling the
black hole, run your own server.

When you have your own server working, bring up Cox webmail, select
all messages, and forward them to your own server.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart@bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.

From stuart at gathman.org  Wed May 31 12:17:06 2006
From: stuart at gathman.org (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed May 31 12:17:15 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605311158510.11323-100000@fairfax.gathman.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605311211220.12053-100000@fairfax.gathman.org>

On Wed, 31 May 2006, Stuart D. Gathman wrote:

> > Surely there is a simple solution that will allow me to do this under Linux.
> > This is only transfering some files from one computer to another. Can anyone
> > suggest something? Right now I'm too agitated to think clearly.
> 
> Your Cox email is in a black hole.  If you want to stop filling the
> black hole, run your own server.

You will want to allow secure imap on port 993 to your dovecot server.
Then you can access your mail from your laptop remotely.  Or use
a free webmail relay service (or just run squirrel-mail even though
you would technically be violating the AUP by running a "web" server).

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart@bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.

From Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com  Wed May 31 12:20:13 2006
From: Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com (Smith, Michael J.)
Date: Wed May 31 12:50:35 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
Message-ID: <3B47B246F5809C42929EF62AB9174C8503EAA8DF@USEA-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com>

One problem:  Cox filters outgoing and incoming SMTP.  No problem, you
have to relay through their SMTP relay, which is smpt.east.cox.net.
Receiving is a problem, you just have to have a server somewhere outside
of their network.



Michael J Smith, CISSP-ISSEP michael.j.smith@unisys.com
Information Security Architect
703.419.3109 W
491.3109 N
703.855.0890 C
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."

--Henry Spencer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: novalug-bounces@tux.org [mailto:novalug-bounces@tux.org] On
Behalf
> Of Stuart D. Gathman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:09 PM
> To: elmurphree@verizon.net
> Cc: NOVALUG
> Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox
cable
> 
> On Wed, 31 May 2006 elmurphree@verizon.net wrote:
> 
> > Once again I have been stiffed by Cox Cable. I have about 1200 email
> messages
> > and an address book on their server. I want to move all this stuff
to my
> > computer's hard disk to archive it. I have been using their Web
Mail, so
> I
> > can access my email wherever I am. Web Mail  now looks like not an
> option but
> > their only mode of operating.
> 
> Cox Internet access is actually pretty good.  What you need to ignore
> is their email service.  Get your own domain and receive your own
email.
> While the intent of the AUP ban on "servers" is clearly *web* servers
> (which would eat up precious upload bandwidth), if you are worried
about
> it
> hire an SMTP relay service - or pay Cox $25 extra a month for a fixed
> IP and lifting of most AUP restrictions.
> 
> Getting your own domain
> 
>   I use http://domainsmadeeasy.com
> 
> Since you won't have a fixed IP (unless you pay Cox $25/mo), you'll
> need DNS service.  There are free services, but I suggest
>   http://dnsmadeeasy.com
>   http://nettica.com
> 
> Nettica uses Microsoft servers, and hence is broken for some
> DNS features, notably rDNS - but with a dynamic IP you won't have
rDNS.
> 
> I run sendmail 8.13.6 with pymilter http://pymilter.sourceforge.net
> Use dovecot-1.0.beta8 or later.
> 
> Many people claim postfix is easier to setup and administer than
sendmail.
> 
> > Surely there is a simple solution that will allow me to do this
under
> Linux.
> > This is only transfering some files from one computer to another.
Can
> anyone
> > suggest something? Right now I'm too agitated to think clearly.
> 
> Your Cox email is in a black hole.  If you want to stop filling the
> black hole, run your own server.
> 
> When you have your own server working, bring up Cox webmail, select
> all messages, and forward them to your own server.
> 
> --
> 	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart@bmsi.com>
> Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703
591-6154
> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
> a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page

From stuart at gathman.org  Wed May 31 13:46:02 2006
From: stuart at gathman.org (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed May 31 13:46:10 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <3B47B246F5809C42929EF62AB9174C8503EAA8DF@USEA-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605311342001.13466-100000@fairfax.gathman.org>

On Wed, 31 May 2006, Smith, Michael J. wrote:

> One problem:  Cox filters outgoing and incoming SMTP.  No problem, you
> have to relay through their SMTP relay, which is smpt.east.cox.net.
> Receiving is a problem, you just have to have a server somewhere outside
> of their network.

Good point.  If you use another box for spam filtering service (I use my
own based on pymilter, but works like e.g. http://spamsoap.com ), this is
not a problem - they relay to you on any port, e.g. 587.  
http://dnsmadeeasy.com also offers SMTP relay service.  But mail
authentication is more difficult when done behind a relay.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart@bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.

From dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com  Wed May 31 14:35:26 2006
From: dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com (Dave Ashby)
Date: Wed May 31 14:35:37 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <292436.11226991149083995470.JavaMail.root@vms168.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <447DE1EE.3030807@1993.usna.com>

elmurphree@verizon.net wrote:
> Surely there is a simple solution that will allow me to do this under Linux. This is only transfering some files from one computer to another. Can anyone suggest something? Right now I'm too agitated to think clearly.
>
>   
I don't completely agree with the "Cox e-mail=black hole" comment. They 
provide a couple very useful value-added service IMHO: good spam 
filtering and antivirus detection. I haven't had any issues with their 
dropping mail - at least, none that I know about.........

The basic solution I've got working successfully with cox is:
fetchmail to pull mail from the (cox) mail server
postfix as a local MTA (with spamassassin for filtering - the Cox 
Brightmail filter does let *some* spam through)
procmail to sort mail into folders for mailing lists/etc.
dovecot for secure remote access (via port 993 as someone else mentioned)
squirrelmail for remote web access (cox blocks inbound port 80 but not 443)
I use self-signed certificates for the secure traffic.

FWIW, you can get over the SMTP blocking by setting up iptables rules to 
go from a non-standard port to port 25 (not a big deal unless you're 
running a "public" server). Or you can change your MTA config to listen 
on a different port. You'll also have to open up your firewall for other 
ports - 993 and 443.

Setup of this (at least on FC) was relatively simple - although you 
*absolutely, positively* want to test procmail rules before using them 
on a important e-mail account.

Google is your friend getting this type of setup up and running - there 
are a number of howto's that will walk you through the basic steps.

IIRC, one of our distinguished Novaluggers put together a personal 
mail-server howto as part of a hands-on meeting a few months 
back.Unfortunately, I don't have the link. Maybe someone else on the 
list does.

Hope this helps.
-dave

From elmurphree at verizon.net  Wed May 31 14:09:53 2006
From: elmurphree at verizon.net (elmurphree@verizon.net)
Date: Wed May 31 15:10:48 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
Message-ID: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>

All,

The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will be working on this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward stored Cox.net messages is one at a time. And there are twelve hundred of them, unless I abandon some, which I am considering.

Two or three months ago I got a Verizon FiOS connection, and have directed most of my new email that had been going to Cox.net to Verizon.net. I naively thought it would be simple to move the old message files to verizon.net, and took my time getting around to it. Now my wife wants to terminate the Cox account and its expense.

What I want, I think, is to change the web mail option to a POP3 option, as Keith Casey recommended. Then when I get my mail it will all flow into my computer. Knowing what I want to do doesn't mean I know how to do it with Cox's menus, which have changed recently, so that the familiar interface is gone.

Thanks, everyone, for the information. I will welcome continuing suggestions. If I get it done, I'll post the solution.

Lile

>From: Keith Casey <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>
>Date: Wed May 31 10:12:48 CDT 2006
>To: novalug@tux.org
>Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable

>What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
>you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are some
>results for you:
>http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search
>
>You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
>Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
>this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
>download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...
>
>-- 
>D. Keith Casey Jr.
>CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
>http://CaseySoftware.com
>
>2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
>- http://dcphpconference.com/
>_______________________________________________
>novalug mailing list
>novalug@tux.org
>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page

From bones at necrobones.net  Wed May 31 15:15:31 2006
From: bones at necrobones.net (Ed T. Toton III)
Date: Wed May 31 15:15:41 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0605311514210.21709@reaper.necrobones.net>

Thus spake elmurphree@verizon.net:

> All,
>
> The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will be 
> working on this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward 
> stored Cox.net messages is one at a time. And there are twelve hundred 
> of them, unless I abandon some, which I am considering.

You're sure they are not supporting POP3 or IMAP for your account at all? 
If either works, there are tools for automating what you need, such as 
fetchmail.


------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ed T. Toton III -- http://necrobones.com/ - http://ed.toton.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in
  a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed
  guards - and even then I have my doubts."
                                          -- E. H. Spafford

From Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com  Wed May 31 15:23:20 2006
From: Michael.J.Smith at unisys.com (Smith, Michael J.)
Date: Wed May 31 15:53:43 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
Message-ID: <3B47B246F5809C42929EF62AB9174C8503ECC39A@USEA-EXCH2.na.uis.unisys.com>

Did you try connecting to pop.east.cox.net with the same username and
password you use for webmail?  It should be fairly trivial to use
whatever client you wish or fetchmail.



Michael J Smith, CISSP-ISSEP michael.j.smith@unisys.com
Information Security Architect
703.419.3109 W
491.3109 N
703.855.0890 C
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly."

--Henry Spencer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: novalug-bounces@tux.org [mailto:novalug-bounces@tux.org] On
Behalf
> Of elmurphree@verizon.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:10 PM
> To: Keith Casey; novalug@tux.org
> Subject: Re: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox
> cable
> 
> All,
> 
> The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will
be
> working on this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward
> stored Cox.net messages is one at a time. And there are twelve hundred
of
> them, unless I abandon some, which I am considering.
> 
> Two or three months ago I got a Verizon FiOS connection, and have
directed
> most of my new email that had been going to Cox.net to Verizon.net. I
> naively thought it would be simple to move the old message files to
> verizon.net, and took my time getting around to it. Now my wife wants
to
> terminate the Cox account and its expense.
> 
> What I want, I think, is to change the web mail option to a POP3
option,
> as Keith Casey recommended. Then when I get my mail it will all flow
into
> my computer. Knowing what I want to do doesn't mean I know how to do
it
> with Cox's menus, which have changed recently, so that the familiar
> interface is gone.
> 
> Thanks, everyone, for the information. I will welcome continuing
> suggestions. If I get it done, I'll post the solution.
> 
> Lile
> 
> >From: Keith Casey <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>
> >Date: Wed May 31 10:12:48 CDT 2006
> >To: novalug@tux.org
> >Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox
cable
> 
> >What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
> >you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are
some
> >results for you:
> >http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search
> >
> >You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
> >Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
> >this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
> >download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...
> >
> >--
> >D. Keith Casey Jr.
> >CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
> >http://CaseySoftware.com
> >
> >2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
> >- http://dcphpconference.com/
> >_______________________________________________
> >novalug mailing list
> >novalug@tux.org
> >http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> >for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page

From jhart at kevla.org  Wed May 31 16:19:42 2006
From: jhart at kevla.org (Jay Hart)
Date: Wed May 31 16:46:40 2006
Subject: [novalug] NAS
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0605300743q2c551999s7c0c7c11fd121e90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060530120153.GE4663@pryzby.org>
	<20060530141438.GA65061@bsd-unix.net>
	<fd219f0f0605300743q2c551999s7c0c7c11fd121e90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3893.192.168.1.14.1149106782.squirrel@www.kevla.org>

> On 5/30/06, Bryan Seitz <seitz@bsd-unix.net> wrote:
>> Read the reviews before you decide to buy one btw, sposedly has horrible
>> transfer speeds :(
>
> I was just looking at that... it appears to cap out at 100 which makes
> it fine for most stuff as long as you're not pushing video.
>
> I just picked up a simple enclosure and a 160gb drive from Microcenter
> on Saturday...  it's usb2 so the initial mass-backup was painful, but
> the rest of them should be relatively painless.

Ok, so how do you have it set up?

Jay
>
> --
> D. Keith Casey Jr.
> CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
> http://CaseySoftware.com
>
> 2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
> - http://dcphpconference.com/
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>


From elmurphree at verizon.net  Wed May 31 17:32:07 2006
From: elmurphree at verizon.net (E MURPHREE)
Date: Wed May 31 17:32:16 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>

All,

To report on the progress so far:

I fired up MS Outlook Express on another computer and created a new identity 
for myself at Cox, setting up POP3 and SMTP for the same account I have used 
for web mail. As soon as I logged in to that account, 1204 email messages 
with index and attachments flowed into my wife's XP computer. The whole 
process didn't take more than three or four minutes. I have not been so 
successful yet with the address book, but I did get it downloaded to a file 
on my Linux computer. I think I can do the same with the XP computer so that 
Outlook Express can access it.

This solves the problem of salvaging the messages, but they are now resident 
on an XP computer that I am not comfortable using. I was not able to move 
them to my Linux computer, but I think I could have in another day of work.

Many thanks for the several suggestions. For the record, Verizon wanted no 
part of this problem and quickly sent a message that they had no answer to 
my question. Without the help from Novaluggers, I probably would have dumped 
all the messages, and then complained about it for the next year. The 
outcome may not be comfortable, but it is surely functional.

I very much appreciate the help.

Lile
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <elmurphree@verizon.net>
To: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>; <novalug@tux.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable


> All,
>
> The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will be 
> working on this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward 
> stored Cox.net messages is one at a time. And there are twelve hundred of 
> them, unless I abandon some, which I am considering.
>
> Two or three months ago I got a Verizon FiOS connection, and have directed 
> most of my new email that had been going to Cox.net to Verizon.net. I 
> naively thought it would be simple to move the old message files to 
> verizon.net, and took my time getting around to it. Now my wife wants to 
> terminate the Cox account and its expense.
>
> What I want, I think, is to change the web mail option to a POP3 option, 
> as Keith Casey recommended. Then when I get my mail it will all flow into 
> my computer. Knowing what I want to do doesn't mean I know how to do it 
> with Cox's menus, which have changed recently, so that the familiar 
> interface is gone.
>
> Thanks, everyone, for the information. I will welcome continuing 
> suggestions. If I get it done, I'll post the solution.
>
> Lile
>
>>From: Keith Casey <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>
>>Date: Wed May 31 10:12:48 CDT 2006
>>To: novalug@tux.org
>>Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
>
>>What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
>>you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are some
>>results for you:
>>http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search
>>
>>You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
>>Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
>>this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
>>download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...
>>
>>-- 
>>D. Keith Casey Jr.
>>CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
>>http://CaseySoftware.com
>>
>>2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
>>- http://dcphpconference.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
> 


From nick at mrtizmo.com  Wed May 31 17:23:05 2006
From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis)
Date: Wed May 31 17:55:46 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <33625.68.33.125.38.1149110585.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>

What are you using to read your email in your verizon.net account? Webmail/IMAP/POP3 ??

I just checked and pop.east.cox.net is running pop3 on 110.

[localhost ~]$ telnet pop.east.cox.net 110
Trying 68.1.17.2...
Connected to pop.east.cox.net (68.1.17.2).
Escape character is '^]'.
+OK InterMail POP3 server ready.

 This means you should be able to do as mentioned before and setup your own email
client to use POP3 to pull down all of your mail from cox; use your user/pass from
your webmail.
 You shouldn't have to change anything in your cox web menus. On your local box, start
up your mail client of choice (Kmail, etc). Go into the settings and setup a new pop3
mail account. Use your user/pass from your webmail and use pop.east.cox.net as the
pop3/mail server and use smtp.east.cox.net as your smtp server. Then have it check
your messages.. and you'll see them start to come in.


HTH's
Nick Davis

On Wed, May 31, 2006 13:09, elmurphree@verizon.net said:
> All,
>
> The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will be working on
> this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward stored Cox.net messages is
> one at a time. And there are twelve hundred of them, unless I abandon some, which I am
> considering.
>
> Two or three months ago I got a Verizon FiOS connection, and have directed most of my
> new email that had been going to Cox.net to Verizon.net. I naively thought it would be
> simple to move the old message files to verizon.net, and took my time getting around
> to it. Now my wife wants to terminate the Cox account and its expense.
>
> What I want, I think, is to change the web mail option to a POP3 option, as Keith
> Casey recommended. Then when I get my mail it will all flow into my computer. Knowing
> what I want to do doesn't mean I know how to do it with Cox's menus, which have
> changed recently, so that the familiar interface is gone.
>
> Thanks, everyone, for the information. I will welcome continuing suggestions. If I get
> it done, I'll post the solution.
>
> Lile
>
>>From: Keith Casey <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>
>>Date: Wed May 31 10:12:48 CDT 2006
>>To: novalug@tux.org
>>Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
>
>>What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
>>you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are some
>>results for you:
>>http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search
>>
>>You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
>>Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
>>this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
>>download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...
>>
>>--
>>D. Keith Casey Jr.
>>CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
>>http://CaseySoftware.com
>>
>>2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
>>- http://dcphpconference.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>>novalug mailing list
>>novalug@tux.org
>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Wed May 31 18:03:18 2006
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Wed May 31 18:03:21 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
	<002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0605311503h382f4c4bg98f601e494a33c9d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/31/06, E MURPHREE <elmurphree@verizon.net> wrote:
> This solves the problem of salvaging the messages, but they are now resident
> on an XP computer that I am not comfortable using. I was not able to move
> them to my Linux computer, but I think I could have in another day of work.

I haven't used Outlook in almost 3 years, but *many* mail clients
store the messages as relatively simple text files.  If this is the
case, you could create the account in something else (Thunderbird,
Evolution, whatever) and simply copy the relevant files to the right
directory.  I've done this with old email that I burned to CD as a
backup.

Glad to be of service.

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com

2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
- http://dcphpconference.com/
From nick at mrtizmo.com  Wed May 31 20:07:10 2006
From: nick at mrtizmo.com (Nick Davis)
Date: Wed May 31 20:07:14 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
	<002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
Message-ID: <33770.68.33.125.38.1149120430.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>

Well unfortunately Outlook Express saves your email in an annoying binary format. In
order to get it out of there, you need to "export" it, and then convert it to
something useful by your preferred email client. If you search google for this string
"outlook express email export", you'll find several examples of how to do this.


HTH's
Nick Davis


On Wed, May 31, 2006 16:32, E MURPHREE said:
> All,
>
> To report on the progress so far:
>
> I fired up MS Outlook Express on another computer and created a new identity
> for myself at Cox, setting up POP3 and SMTP for the same account I have used
> for web mail. As soon as I logged in to that account, 1204 email messages
> with index and attachments flowed into my wife's XP computer. The whole
> process didn't take more than three or four minutes. I have not been so
> successful yet with the address book, but I did get it downloaded to a file
> on my Linux computer. I think I can do the same with the XP computer so that
> Outlook Express can access it.
>
> This solves the problem of salvaging the messages, but they are now resident
> on an XP computer that I am not comfortable using. I was not able to move
> them to my Linux computer, but I think I could have in another day of work.
>
> Many thanks for the several suggestions. For the record, Verizon wanted no
> part of this problem and quickly sent a message that they had no answer to
> my question. Without the help from Novaluggers, I probably would have dumped
> all the messages, and then complained about it for the next year. The
> outcome may not be comfortable, but it is surely functional.
>
> I very much appreciate the help.
>
> Lile
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <elmurphree@verizon.net>
> To: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>; <novalug@tux.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> The replies I have gotten have been helpful, but it looks like I will be
>> working on this for a while. It seems that the only way I can forward
>> stored Cox.net messages is one at a time. And there are twelve hundred of
>> them, unless I abandon some, which I am considering.
>>
>> Two or three months ago I got a Verizon FiOS connection, and have directed
>> most of my new email that had been going to Cox.net to Verizon.net. I
>> naively thought it would be simple to move the old message files to
>> verizon.net, and took my time getting around to it. Now my wife wants to
>> terminate the Cox account and its expense.
>>
>> What I want, I think, is to change the web mail option to a POP3 option,
>> as Keith Casey recommended. Then when I get my mail it will all flow into
>> my computer. Knowing what I want to do doesn't mean I know how to do it
>> with Cox's menus, which have changed recently, so that the familiar
>> interface is gone.
>>
>> Thanks, everyone, for the information. I will welcome continuing
>> suggestions. If I get it done, I'll post the solution.
>>
>> Lile
>>
>>>From: Keith Casey <mailinglists@caseysoftware.com>
>>>Date: Wed May 31 10:12:48 CDT 2006
>>>To: novalug@tux.org
>>>Subject: Re: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
>>
>>>What you're *probably* looking for is Pop3 access.  This should let
>>>you download the messages locally into an email client.  Here are some
>>>results for you:
>>>http://www.google.com/search?q=cox.net+pop3&btnG=Search
>>>
>>>You should be able to set the incoming mail servers in
>>>Thunderbird/Outlook/whatever and retrive the messages.  Most likely
>>>this is going to take a *long* time since there are so many to
>>>download - a few k each turns into multi-meg quickly...
>>>
>>>--
>>>D. Keith Casey Jr.
>>>CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
>>>http://CaseySoftware.com
>>>
>>>2006 DC PHP Conference: "PHP In The Federal Enterprise and the World"
>>>- http://dcphpconference.com/
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>novalug mailing list
>>>novalug@tux.org
>>>http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>>>for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> novalug mailing list
>> novalug@tux.org
>> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
>> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> novalug mailing list
> novalug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/novalug
> for subscribe/unsubscribe see web page
>

From kevin at druffs.com  Wed May 31 20:18:38 2006
From: kevin at druffs.com (Kevin Druff)
Date: Wed May 31 20:18:10 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <33770.68.33.125.38.1149120430.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>	<002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
	<33770.68.33.125.38.1149120430.squirrel@webmail.mordant.com>
Message-ID: <447E325E.2020606@druffs.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.tux.org/mailman/private/novalug/attachments/20060531/5828ec31/attachment-0001.html
From joel at fouse.net  Wed May 31 19:51:40 2006
From: joel at fouse.net (Joel Fouse)
Date: Wed May 31 20:19:54 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0605311503h382f4c4bg98f601e494a33c9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
	<002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
	<fd219f0f0605311503h382f4c4bg98f601e494a33c9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1149119500.11611.7.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 18:03 -0400, Keith Casey wrote:
> On 5/31/06, E MURPHREE <elmurphree@verizon.net> wrote:
> > This solves the problem of salvaging the messages, but they are now resident
> > on an XP computer that I am not comfortable using. I was not able to move
> > them to my Linux computer, but I think I could have in another day of work.
> 
> I haven't used Outlook in almost 3 years, but *many* mail clients
> store the messages as relatively simple text files.  If this is the
> case, you could create the account in something else (Thunderbird,
> Evolution, whatever) and simply copy the relevant files to the right
> directory.  I've done this with old email that I burned to CD as a
> backup.
> 
> Glad to be of service.
> 

Outlook Express doesn't store them as simple text files (I forget at the
moment how it _does_ store them), but it's easy enough to make the
transformation.  I discovered this quite by accident a year or two back,
but apparently drag-n-drop works quite well.  Create a folder on your
desktop (or somewhere else useful) and open it (non-maximized), and have
OE open-but-not-maximized as well.  Ctrl-A to select all the messages in
the relevant mailbox, and drag-n-drop into the open folder.  Voila!
Simple text files, one per email, complete with headers.  I forget the
file extension offhand, .eml perhaps.

- Joel


From dac at cafaro.net  Wed May 31 21:23:56 2006
From: dac at cafaro.net (David A. Cafaro)
Date: Wed May 31 21:44:45 2006
Subject: [novalug] Clearing out old Hardware
In-Reply-To: <1148960505.3833.22.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>
References: <1148960505.3833.22.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>
Message-ID: <1149125036.4012.14.camel@jeff.cafaro.net>

Here are some more details on the hardware.

I tested the printer and the black cartridge works fine, and there is a
spare unopened black cartridge included as well.  The color cartridge is
dead so you would need a new BC-11e color cartridge and ink (these run
46.99 at Compusa, there may be cheaper locations).  I also tested the
IS-12 scanning cartridge (under windows) and it works as well.  I will
guarantee that the printer can print monochrome and can scan under
windows via parallel port as I've tested this.  It doesn't look like the
scanning cartridge is supported under Linux though :-(.


I have also tested the Zaurus and it is fully functional.  Screen is in
great condition.  The battery has held up for two days with very little
use (currently at 48% charge).  For PDA use you would probably still
want to invest in a new battery, but I think it may last through a day
of average to light use between nightly charges.  Wireless card works,
SD cards work, both docks work. 

Thanks,
David


On Mon, 2006-05-29 at 23:41 -0400, David A. Cafaro wrote:
> I've got some old hardware I've decided to get rid of.  I'll bring it to
> the meeting this Saturday. Both work with Linux. See below for more
> information:
> 
> 
> 1. Cannon BJC-50 Portable Color Inkjet Printer - $40 or Best Offer
> This is an old printer, but worked fine last time I used it (over a year
> ago).  It may need new print nozzles/cartridges or a cleaning since it
> may have dried up some.  It prints via parallel or infrared.  It has a
> lithium battery, but not sure how good a charge it holds anymore.  It
> also includes the IS-12 color scanning cartridge, a spare black
> cartridge (unopened), and a spare cartridge case.  I don't know if the
> scanner part works with Linux, I never tried.  
> 
> 
> 2. Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 PDA - $60 or Best Offer
> This was retired when I bought my Treo.  Currently has OpenZaurus Opie
> OS on it, can be flashed back to stock or one of many others (you need a
> compact flash card at least 32MB in size to flash new OS to it).  Works
> fine, but needs a new battery (doesn't hold a charge for very long).
> Currently has a stick on screen protector on it, but you may want to
> replace it as it's done it's job well over the years.  Includes a 64MB
> and a 128MB SanDisk SecureDigital card, A leather Case, a Netgear MA701
> 802.11b CF Wireless Card, and two docks/chargers.
> 
> 
> If you are interested in it then just send me an email.  I'll either
> take the best offer I receive, or the first person who offers my asking
> price.  They should both work, and I'll try and help you as much as
> possible if you run into issues, but these are both sold as is.
> 
> Thanks

-- 
David A. Cafaro
dac(at)cafaro.net
Tech to Admin: "I thought I did plug that in..."

From dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com  Wed May 31 21:13:40 2006
From: dave.ashby at 1993.usna.com (Dave Ashby)
Date: Wed May 31 22:56:03 2006
Subject: [novalug] OT (Sort of) Another reason to not use Cox cable
In-Reply-To: <002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
References: <30905972.1365471149098993636.JavaMail.root@vms064.mailsrvcs.net>
	<002501c684f9$abfb8af0$6400a8c0@PAT>
Message-ID: <447E3F44.2070008@1993.usna.com>

E MURPHREE wrote:
> All,
>
> To report on the progress so far:
>
> I fired up MS Outlook Express on another computer and created a new 
> identity for myself at Cox, setting up POP3 and SMTP for the same 
> account I have used for web mail. As soon as I logged in to that 
> account, 1204 email messages with index and attachments flowed into my 
> wife's XP computer. The whole process didn't take more than three or 
> four minutes. I have not been so successful yet with the address book, 
> but I did get it downloaded to a file on my Linux computer. I think I 
> can do the same with the XP computer so that Outlook Express can 
> access it.
>
> This solves the problem of salvaging the messages, but they are now 
> resident on an XP computer that I am not comfortable using. I was not 
> able to move them to my Linux computer, but I think I could have in 
> another day of work.
If you install Thunderbird (www.mozilla.org/thunderbird) on the windows 
box, it will automatically import your outlook express settings, 
e-mails, and address book.
You *may* then be able to copy your t-bird user data to the appropriate 
folder on your linux box (which presumably also has thunderbird installed).
*****Note that I haven't tried this, so I can't say for sure that it 
works!!!!*****
But if you want to give it a shot: your XP Thunderbird user data will be 
stored in C:\Documents and Settings\(your_username)\Application 
Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\default\(random_letters)\
Your linux (Thunderbird Settings) should be in 
~username\.thunderbird\(random_letters).default\

Hope this works for you.
-dave

From truegsegger at csc.com  Wed May 31 19:25:29 2006
From: truegsegger at csc.com (Theodore Ruegsegger)
Date: Thu Jun  1 00:07:15 2006
Subject: [novalug] Converting Outlook mail to open format [was Another
 reason to not use Cox cable]
In-Reply-To: <fd219f0f0605311503h382f4c4bg98f601e494a33c9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF8533D686.22E99029-ON0425717F.007F809A-0425717F.0080AD85@csc.com>

Lile succeeded in getting his Cox mail to his house, but only as far
as getting it into Outlook. Assuming his POP3 session cleared the
originals off the Cox server, he now needs a way to get the mail out
of Outlook.

As luck would have it, I faced exactly this problem a year ago when my
workplace abandoned Outlook, and I found a neat solution. Here's the
writeup I posted to ma-linux:

--Forwarded message--

Date: 03/18/2005 10:26 AM 
To: <ma-linux@tux.org>
Subject: [ma-linux] Converting Outlook mail to open format
 
Recently I needed to look up some old correspondence about a project
at work. Alas, this was buried in a bunch of old Outlook folders,
forcing me to use Windows and Outlook. I vowed to avoid this
distasteful experience in the future.

I found a nice tool to convert all my old Outlook folders: readpst is
a program that can read an Outlook PST (Personal Folders) file and
convert it into an mbox file, a format suitable for KMail, a recursive
mbox structure, or separate emails.

I chose KMail format and it worked like a champ.

In case you're ever looking for something like this, I recommend
it. Under Ubuntu, it's just another package.

Note, however, that Outlook defaults to enclosing, in every message, a
MIME-encoded Rich Text Format copy of the message. Since I have little
use for that, I wrote a script (buncha chained sed scripts) that
strips out all those RTF enclosures and considerably reduces the size
of the archive. Works best if you call it inside a loop that recurses
through all the folders created by readpst.

Home
http://alioth.debian.org/projects/libpst/

Original home
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ol2mbox

Now if someone finds a similar tool that converts mail from Lotus
Notes, my joy will be complete.

Ted Ruegsegger