[Novalug] Dual Monitor setup not working - No clue, what did I do?
Bryan J Smith
b.j.smith at ieee.org
Wed Dec 9 08:53:06 EST 2009
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 00:08 -0700, Maxwell Spangler wrote:
> Linux isn't right for everyone.
I would argue that every OS requires people to know what they are doing,
not make assumptions and realize where vendors have control.
> But for many of us the short term work we invest in Linux returns as
> long term rewards.
"Invest" is relative. I would not use Linux if it wasn't the easiest OS
to deploy, manage and use. Of course, this requires knowledge of how to
do such with it -- from Anaconda/Kickstart to GNOME/Firefox profiles
(being Fedora/Red Hat-centric).
> The work Apple has done with Mac OS X to embrase a beautiful, clean 3D
> look is raising the bar for all other computing environments.
Apple has an integrated hardware-software platform. Let's not forget
that. Sun has the same argument as long as you stay SPARC as well
(which people often forget and flop, arguing SPARC advantages, but then
Apple tells nVidia _exactly_ what GPU bits it wants, _exactly_ what
features go into the object, and has the _exact_ OpenGL support in the
combined hardware-software product. Apple even gets a great number of
the Pro/Quadra bits enabled in the GPUs in its products.
Imagine if a Linux vendor had such? Oh, wait, they do! It's called
embedded, set-top, etc... How "frustrating" is Linux usage in such?
Not much at all. And that's my point. If you control everything,
things "just work."
Let's compare apples-to-apples shall we?
Now with that said, because of the massive marketshare nVidia has in the
Linux workstation and server world for its chipsets and GPUs, nVidia
does an outstanding job. It keeps most of its platform chipsets
backward compatible with existing GPL code, and makes the contributions
requires at release -- typically because their semi has already
developed the chip with Linux drivers parallel (unlike Intel in my
experience). Yeah, the semi doesn't always have the latest features
(like Intel), but it works with Linux. On the GPU side, they have their
"shared object" model that is the exact same across Linux, Mac and
Windows. Heck, most GPU features hit the Linux drivers before Windows
And that's a tall order on the GPU side. Their drivers work with all
sorts of configurations "out-of-the-box." Not just desktops, but all
the details in portables. That's why I switched to GeForce Go/Mobile
GPUs in 2001. I still cannot trust Intel for portables -- especially
video out -- and many 3rd party apps to tweak Intel registers are always
a "moving target" (unless you stick with 1-2 year old Intel chispets).
> 2D graphical apps did the same thing to push DOS text apps and Unix
> character-terminal apps aside. In order for Linux to be respected in
> the future, it needs major reworking in order to compete.
Re-working where? The problem is the Linux doesn't have the integrated
hardware-software combination. That's the same problem Windows has as
well. PC OEMs screw that pooch too.
My pre-installed Windows Vista on my 15 month-old Gateway P-7811FX
notebook still has issues with audio, wireless and even suspend at
times. Fedora 9-12 on the same system has never, ever. I've already
talked to someone who loaded Windows 7 on the same and has even more
> We're within that reworking phase right now and some things aren't as
> clean and simple as they should and will be.
It's simple as long as you have supported hardware. The problem is that
there are always little issues here and there with vendors not
supporting things, not releasing specs, etc...
Over 90% of the PC world is designing time-limited hardware, including
Intel. They sell for the dirt-cheap systems and they make little revs,
license 3rd party software-driven hardware, etc... that take time to
reverse engineer. That has _nothing_ to do with Linux, or even Windows,
drivers, support, feel, etc... but the superstore model.
If you want an integrated hardware-software platform, buy Apple. Don't
ever expect Linux and Windows to do the same (although Microsoft is
getting into their PC brand last time I checked).
> We've seen this before: Linux has come a long way, but requires
Not for me. But I know what I'm doing and I buy the right hardware.
Windows is far more frustrating and I don't want to pay the premium for
a Mac (but have owned and been issued several).
If you want integrated hardware-software, buy a Mac. No argument from
me. Just don't compare apples-to-oranges. Seriously.
As far as nVidia, there's a reason why they have a huge customer base
for workstations and servers. Their platform chipsets and, with added
drivers, GPUs "just work" right down to the smallest features --
especially on portables.
Bryan J Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance
Linked Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bjsmith
Only engineers can solve the growing needs of consumers
Stop being "aware" (that's so '70s) and start supporting
real solutions that actually work and sustain the planet
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