plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com
Tue Feb 10 13:22:04 EST 2009
On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 19:24 -0500, Rich Goodwin wrote:
> This is not true. First and foremost, the LUG meetings are not public.
> We will let those we know, or wish to know, in but can exclude folks.
> My understanding is we have asked (or were prepared to ask) individuals
> not to return. While I agree we tend to be far more inclusive than most,
> there are some limits.
It helps a bit if you quote what you reply to.
Am I to understand that you define public as something where you cannot
remove unwanted elements? Now, I've only been a regular Novalug attender
for 3-4 years but in that time, I cannot recollect EVER having issues
that remotely lead to banning a person from attending.
If we use that definition, then the mailing list isn't public either? To
me, public means that anyone can show up but we as the organizer reserve
the right to dismiss unwanted elements. And while the event is public,
the facility isn't. So of course there are rules. If you break the
rules, you cannot attend.
It does not, however, state on novalug.com that only "novaluggers" are
welcome, nor does it state that we reserve the right to dismiss people
we don't like. More so, who would have that authority for Novalug?
In all of the sense of the word, our events are public. And I'm pretty
sure that if we weren't it would conflict with the charter of tux.org.
> We are, presumably all, proponents of open and free software
> distribution. The issue is faces and voices - a very personal thing and
> as such very very different. I, for one, try to control my identity and
> extremely sensitive to where my information goes. I agree I am likely
> not as successful as I would like to be ... but humor me ... I try.
Sure - we all do. Taping the presentation (and only the presentation)
isn't going to change that? But my point earlier was, that by writing
here you've already given away part of your identity. Your mail address
related with your opinion. With all the archives, that is a rather
extensive image of what/who you are.
> Lastly, I wish to point out I do wish to honor others concerns. I have
> been asked publicly and privately by a number of NOVALUG attendees not
> to show their face or make their faces freely available (voices were
> inferred). I am obligated to follow their wishes. I will also point
> out that some would like to have their faces freely distributed ... in
> hopes they may be confused with Brad Pitt!! ROTFL!!
That's all fixed easily by NOT panning the camera? Everyone can see
where the camera is positioned. If you don't feel you want even the top
of your head shown, then we've got plenty of space for you to find a
seat out of the reach of the camera lense?
I think we need to consider the individual's own responsibility in this
matter. If we did secret recordings I could understand this debate - but
> My initial thoughts was to see if we could do some bittorrent sharing.
> The underlying concern that someone else would open it up outside the
> agreed spaces makes me extremely hesitant.
Technically what is the difference? First of, torrent requires a tracker
somewhere. Torrents per definition are public - in particular the
trackers are. So if it's a privacy concern, I don't see the difference.
I agree that youtube and the like have rather "interesting" EULA that we
may not want to use; but youtube isn't the only facility that has video
hosting in mind. I for one, don't see why Tux/Novalug should try to
build our own video hosting site.
> Unfortunately, this issue tends to be a non-technical one. Rather it is
> more legalistic. Not being a lawyer, I tend to not push the envelope on
> the identity topic.
So far, none of the arguments have been legal. We all agree to respect
the wishes of people who doesn't want to be on camera. The question is
how? Those who does not want to be on camera simply do not speak or make
presentations? That way they won't be on the video.
> We have all watched technology do amazing things with information not
> originally intended. Gov'ts and organizations created a data standard
> for Digital Terrain Elevation Data [DTED] for mapping purposes. Who
> would have thought of Google Maps back in the 1980's when the standards
> started? Consider Google's Image search capabilities. that has been
> great in alot of ways. Now consider that Google started an effort to
> get the images tagged ... so a red Porsche 911 with mountains in the
> background might be tagged as - Porsche, 911, mountains, Allgäu
> (Bavarian region - Germany), red, red car, ..... Then remember that
> Google started to "pay" people to tag images. this was recently
> augmented with facial recognition software
> (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/googles-photo-face-recognition-is-wow-marketing/) . This becomes really truly scary. remember - you are not paranoid if "they" are really out to get you ... and I submit, this is a byproduct of Google's work. I just don't wish to be a part of it.
There's no question that eventually video's can be indexed. I doubt
they'll be as good as to recognize most faces - that technology is only
as "good" as voice recognition at this point - if even that. But lets
say it was perfect - what the difference between following what you say
on a video vs. what you say here on the list?
> As Mackenzie said - "It's about having your face all over the Internet
> for all to see without giving consent..." and I will add and not having
> any control or say as to what will or will not be done with it.
That would only be a concern to the presenter. I've never been asked if
the sessions I've done could be taped; I assumed everyone took it for
granted, that presentations were taped. As an audience member, I'm not
concerned at all - the camera isn't pointed at me.
Peter Larsen <plarsen at famlarsen.homelinux.com>
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